Author Topic: Bevin's 3RZ Conversion (Read 93172 times)

MC387 · « **Reply #90 on:** Mar 31, 2009, 11:59:23 AM »

Cool I am guessing that he had no problem with the tank that you used. Geuss I'll be coming over there in a month or so. Gotta wait till I am 3 months from my actual smog due date. That way I can kill 2 birds with one stone.
Thanks

Blane525 · « **Reply #91 on:** Apr 01, 2009, 08:04:35 PM »

the tank was a problem for a minute! but that was because i didn't have the vent or should say the port with the green cap. To force the test to test the check engine light ! make sure that little inspection port is in plane sight!!!

BigMike · « **Reply #92 on:** Aug 14, 2009, 01:36:17 PM »

Hello everyone,

I was going through a bunch of old photos when I remember I forgot to get these up-

Over a month ago I *finally* got Bevin's tachometer working, so I figured I would update this real quick like.

First Bevin purchased a complete 2003 Tacoma instrument cluster.

Then I identified the wiring.

Then I removed the Tacoma LCD panel and brain (see the Red circled area in the first pic above).

Next I separated the circuit board from the plastic boss and the LCD pane, and began wiring it up.

All you need to worry about is getting ignition power and a ground to the Tacoma brain, and then trace the COS+, COS-, SIN+, and SIN- connections that lead from the Tacoma brain to the Tacoma tachometer. Then simply trace the Igniter signal wire (tach signal from the engine) to the Tacoma brain and mark it also.

Really it is VERY basic:

1. The Tacoma and Hilux have the same single signal wire from the igniter that leads to both instrument clusters. So external to the cluster, this is the only wire that tells the cluster the RPM.

2. The Hilux igniter signal wire leads DIRECT to the Hilux tachometer itself, HOWEVER, the Tacoma's igniter signal wire leads to the Tacoma Brain Circuit Board where it is divided into four different signal wires: COS+, COS-, SIN+, SIN-. These four wires lead to the Tacoma tachometer itself.

3. So All you need to do is the following:

Make sure these same 4 Tacoma wires connect from the Tacoma Brain direct to the COS+, COS-, SIN+, and SIN- connections at the Tacoma tachnometer
Make sure the Tacoma Brain has a ground and a +12 volt power (logically use an ignition ON power source)
Make sure the Hilux Igniter signal wire leads to the Tacoma Brain

Here is the Tacoma brain connected to the Hilux Instrument cluster. As you can see, the Tacoma Tachometer motor has been interchanged with the Hilux Tachometer dash. Simply pull the needle up, remove the two screws, and place the Tacoma Tach component in the place of the Hilux tach component.

And that is it! It's very simple indeed!! Here is the engine at cold idle.

And finally the engine revving!

Fortunately, the only reason why this works is because the Tacoma and the Hilux share the same range at the same increments:

BigMike does it all 8)

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #93 on:** Aug 14, 2009, 05:18:53 PM »

Better link this into the tech section.

BigMike · « **Reply #94 on:** Oct 04, 2009, 10:21:54 PM »

Currently Bevin is having a hard time getting his Hilux fuel gauge to communicate with his 2003 Tacoma fuel sending unit. I'll keep this updated with more info...

THK Matt · « **Reply #95 on:** Oct 04, 2009, 10:23:21 PM »

Can't he run his own wires from "point A" to "point B"

BigMike · « **Reply #96 on:** Oct 05, 2009, 08:22:37 AM »

Turns out the resistances are different between the Taco sender and the Hilux sender. When he has a full tank of gas, his gas gauge reads about half-tank. I gave him instructions on how to mount the Taco fuel gauge brain behind the Hilux fuel gauge display, which he did, but he said it made no difference. So I don't know what is going on until I go check out what is going on. (I'm limited on time for side projects at the moment)

88_Pathy · « **Reply #97 on:** Oct 05, 2009, 10:22:18 AM »

OK this is sweet. Mine is next haha..

dezrik · « **Reply #98 on:** Nov 29, 2009, 11:34:44 AM »

Is it necessary to keep the Stock gauge cluster hooked up for proper engine tune? Ill be swaping a 3rz in my first gen in a couple of weeks. I only want to keep the wiring that is necessary to run it as a stand alone harness. I will keep the OBII intact as it is very easy to figure out what is wrong with the engine with a scanner. Will i need to install a VSS? Any help would be appreciated Thanks

BigMike · « **Reply #99 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 01:20:51 AM »

Every single 4WD speedometer from 1979+ has an integrated speed sensor that can be used with newer engine systems.

In order for the engine to operate normally, the speed sensor is the ONLY required item from the instrumentation.

What year is your truck and your 3RZ?

BigMike

88_Pathy · « **Reply #100 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 08:25:16 AM »

Mike where can you find JUST the tach for the cluster? And will it have to be the 02-04 cluster?

BigMike · « **Reply #101 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 10:47:54 AM »

Quote from: 88_Pathy on Dec 01, 2009, 08:25:16 AM

Mike where can you find JUST the tach for the cluster? And will it have to be the 02-04 cluster?

At first I thought this was possible, but remember the Tacoma tachometer is driven by the instrument cluster's control unit (integrated circuit) so you will also need this component to convert the single wire igniter signal into the 4-wire tachometer signal that the Tacoma tachometer reads from.

Hilux instrumentation was individual, you could take just the tach and run it directly off of the igniter. So that can be found individually from wrecking yards for cheap. Unfortunately this is not case with the Tacoma instrumentation.

There is a way to get it cheaper however the odds are about as good as your truck beating mine up 5-dollar rock: The side gauges (such as engine temp, voltage, fuel, oil pressure) are independent devices in the cluster and are not dependent on the control unit. So if you can find an instrument cluster where the side gauges have already been purchased and all that remains is the speedometer, digital odometer (connected to the control unit), and the tachometer, then you could barter a cheaper price since most of the instrumentation is missing.

But again, it's not like your truck could out wheel mine already, so, you know

Quote from: 88_Pathy on Dec 01, 2009, 08:25:16 AM

And will it have to be the 02-04 cluster?

You MUST match instrumentation type to engine type. I don't know this as a fact, but it seems logical so I "assuming" with great confidence that any dual-coil 3RZ will work with ANY instrument cluster that came from a dual-coil 3RZ-equipped truck, and likewise for the quad coil. Bevin got an exact match, 2003 cluster for his 2003 engine, but I strongly believe (with no formal experience) that any cluster that came from a truck that has a 4-coil 3RZ will be compatible with any 4-coil 3RZ ignition system.

88_Pathy · « **Reply #102 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 11:15:52 AM »

Man that is crap, the cheapest I found a cluster for is 175.. And I don't really know of any place to look. Do you happen to know where Bevin found his. If not I will just call him.

BigMike · « **Reply #103 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 01:52:25 PM »

Give him a call. I know he spent over 100 clams for it

Ironloki · « **Reply #104 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 04:31:42 PM »

Whats a full swap like this gunna cost after its all said and done?
I had a 3RZ in my 96, and I miss that motor. this 22re, even tho
reliable, wont get out of its own way. I need more power.

hilux-1983 · « **Reply #105 on:** Dec 01, 2009, 06:30:14 PM »

subscribed

BigMike · « **Reply #106 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 09:36:49 AM »

Quote from: Ironloki on Dec 01, 2009, 04:31:42 PM

Whats a full swap like this gunna cost after its all said and done?
I had a 3RZ in my 96, and I miss that motor. this 22re, even tho
reliable, wont get out of its own way. I need more power.

Doing everything on your own, it could be done for as little as about a grand or as much as $3000. I would say typical prices for a complete engine + harness & ecu is around $650-$1000 for the older versions or around $1500 for a very low mileage 2003 or 2004 version like what Bevin has.

Bevin's 2003 motor only had 14,000 miles on it I believe, and Dean's 2004 motor only had 9,000 miles! They both spent nearly $2,000 for everything including the full exhaust, interior wiring, and fuel tank with all emissions equipment.

Then, once you have the engine, expect to budget about $500 for misc stuff like a Toyota wiring manual (STRONGLY recommend using a genuine Toyota wiring guide, full color pages!), fuel lines, clutch lines, radiator upgrade if needed, coolant hoses, welding, metal to build motor mounts and make brackets and such, fuel pump if you don't already have an EFI, two O2 sensors if you didn't get them with the engine, etcetera.... I know $500 for "miscellaneous" sounds really high, but trust me, if you've never done an engine swap before, you're gonna find out real quick like that all the little stuff really adds up. How about a clutch? If you got an automatic engine then you'll need to source a flywheel and clutch. I just want you to understand that doing an engine swap is a SERIOUS matter. My advise is to approach this with a serious full-on game plan. I picked up my 3RZ on July 4th, 2004 and took my truck to the inspection station in early October. So it took me roughly 3-1/2 months of working in the evenings to complete my conversion. Bevin got his engine in May of 2005, we started working on it in August, and we had it passed the state inspectors by July of 2006. So for him it was a full year investment. There were a lot of times where him and I wouldn't touch his truck for weeks at a time because we were so tired from all the work. But if you stick with it, the rewards FAR OUT NUMBER the effort!!!!!!

Check this picture out from the last time I drove to Rubicon:

This is from my OBD-Diagnostics software I was using to monitor my fuel mileage during a 160-mile stretch along highway 99 in central California. 23 MILES PER GALLON ON 37" TIRES!!!! My average speed was 65 and I was not drafting behind anyone. Can a less-powerful 3.0-liter V6 get 23 MPG? I DON'T THINK SO!! HAHA I LOVE MY 3RZ!!!

As for my expenses, I didn't keep close track it but I estimate I did my whole swap including getting it passed the ultra strict California Emissions Inspection for around $1,500 for everything including the engine. I did my swap before the 3RZ became popular so I got a lot of good deals.

Good luck! You have to "want" something better than what you've got before you make the first step with an engine conversion. I know there are some reading this who are thinking, "ahhh BigMike is a rookie I've done 12 engine swaps and they were all cake". I am telling you straight how I feel an engine conversion should be looked at. It is my opinion that if you don't have the proper mindset, then you may get discouraged and stop half way and sell everything you've worked on. I've seen it happen over and over. It really is a lot of work and you will spend a good part of a year getting all of the loose bugs worked out before you can truly say it's done.

I am in no way an engine swap pro, but here is where I draw my experiences from:
First engine swap was a 1993 Toyota Levin 4A-GZE Supercharged engine into my 1987 Toyota MR2. I did this back in 2000 when I was 19 years old.
My 2nd swap was a 1989 Toyota MR2 4A-GZE Supercharged engine into a friends 1987 Toyota MR2. I did this sometime around 2002?
My 3rd swap was my 1995 3RZ into my 1981 Hilux back in 2004.
My 4th swap was a 1996 3RZ into Marlin's 1980 Hilux in 2005.
My 5th swap was a 2004 3RZ into Dean's Hilux also in 2005.
My 6th swap was a 2003 3RZ into Bevin's Hilux also in 2005.

BigMike

88_Pathy · « **Reply #107 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 10:31:45 AM »

I could say, Mike did the swap on my truck, which was Deans, and it had to be a pain. When I acquired the truck I pulled the whole interior out and sorted through the wiring. It was very well done, just loose ends that I didn't want in a DD. Mike is right though, It will end up costing much more in misc stuff then you would think. Stay with it, you will like the power. And 23mpg is super impressive. In an x-cab 85 not loaded 4.88 37s best I have seen is 19-20 at 70+. Loaded going wheeling up the dreaded 168 4 lane, wheeling all day then coming home I get 16+.

BigMike · « **Reply #108 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 10:55:06 AM »

Quote from: 88_Pathy on Dec 02, 2009, 10:31:45 AM

I could say, Mike did the swap on my truck, which was Deans, and it had to be a pain. When I acquired the truck I pulled the whole interior out and sorted through the wiring. It was very well done, just loose ends that I didn't want in a DD. Mike is right though, It will end up costing much more in misc stuff then you would think. Stay with it, you will like the power. And 23mpg is super impressive. In an x-cab 85 not loaded 4.88 37s best I have seen is 19-20 at 70+. Loaded going wheeling up the dreaded 168 4 lane, wheeling all day then coming home I get 16+.

The thing with Dean's truck is that it previously had a Chevy 4.3 V6 in there, and when I was hired to do the wiring on the 3RZ to replace the 4.3, Dean requested I wire *ONLY* what is necessary to get the engine running. The truck is still operating off of a GM OCR circuit as well as GM fuel pump harness.

Kyle- I know your truck runs good, but if you get the emissions stuff fixed then I wonder if your fuel mileage would increase? We need to get my laptop in there and watch the consumption while cruising on the highway at 65. I bet you make over 20 MPG.

88_Pathy · « **Reply #109 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 11:22:13 AM »

No Idea it might. But I bet your right. At 65 I am at around 2400rpms, And still plenty of power loaded or not. 20mpg is very doable IMO.
Ironloki- For simplicity I would do a 3rz swap from a 1st gen 3rz with the distributor. It seems way simpler to wire and get running right. The power is very comparable to the newer dual coil and quad coil motors. The only difference I can "feel" is my powerband seems smoother and hits about 500rpm earlier then pulls the rest of the way. Mikes seems slightly slower from the start but hits harder around 3000rpm then pulls even harder after I would guess 4200ish. Mine pulls from 2500 up smoother and with as much power. In a race Mike would win, his truck is lighter, and seems pretty dang fast.

BigMike · « **Reply #110 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 02:54:01 PM »

My truck is faster because I have two of these stickers on it:

These stickers got me +10 hp

dezrik · « **Reply #111 on:** Dec 06, 2009, 11:19:11 AM »

My 3rz is going in my 1980 Pickup, If I ever find the right damn motor, I have a rebuilt 22R to keep me occupied until I get a 3rz for the swap, it would be nice to add +50hp to my truck, I was going to go with the GotPropane+Turbo setup but I decided I'm not going to stress a 22R and lose any reliability I had with the stock motor. 37" and 4.88 gears with a 22R I'm not to quick.

BigMike · « **Reply #112 on:** Dec 06, 2009, 02:50:32 PM »

Remember, in stock form, the normally aspirated 3RZ out performs the Turbo 22R-TE:

22R-TE: 135@4800 HP, 173@2800 TQ
3RZ-FE: 150@4800 HP, 177@4000 TQ

Sure, sure, that's at stock boost, stock turbo manifold, blah blah blah... In terms of raw power, having to defend a boosted engine against a NA engine is pretty pathetic in my book. Personally I don't like when people compare the Turbo 22R to the 3RZ. The 3RZ is a big-block 4cyl; it's in a different league. I say compare the 3RZ to the 3.4-liter V6. Pretty bold eh? The 3RZ will make you feel this way. Besides, I'll take the ease of diagnosing the OBD-II 3RZ over the older R- and 3VZ-engines anyday.

Mike

THK Matt · « **Reply #113 on:** Dec 06, 2009, 02:54:26 PM »

whats the TQ numbers at 2800rpm on the 3rz? just curious... as it peaks out.... 1200rpms higher then R engine. does that mean the R would seem "quicker" of the intial line or lets say in crawling environments with the same drivetrain.

or???

Thanks BM, curiousity killed this cat.

BigMike · « **Reply #114 on:** Dec 06, 2009, 03:18:27 PM »

I'll let the dyno slips do all the talking. Note how early the 3RZ develops its torque band. It's no slouch at the bottom end. So it's torque may peak around 4000 rpm, but what's important for your question, is look how approximately 85% of that peak torque is available at around 1700 RPM:

(Here is Bevin's dyno from his 2003 3RZ)

This is a 1996 3RZ vs. a 1986 22R-E. When this 3RZ was dyno'd, the ECU was still learning what was going on because we did the engine swap and then trailed the truck straight to the dyno shop. So this 3RZ was still in open loop.

Notice how this 3RZ's torque peaks at just 2350-2400 rpm. In case about 87% of the torque is available at 1850 RPM:

THK Matt · « **Reply #115 on:** Dec 06, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »

well that settles that lol

Ironloki · « **Reply #116 on:** Dec 06, 2009, 06:18:39 PM »

Big Mike, YOU are the man.. thanks for the info $Beer Chug\'n$

Blane525 · « **Reply #117 on:** Feb 08, 2010, 10:08:32 PM »

the question is do you want it done right or just a trail rig?? if the ladder then maybe 500$ over the cost of the engine. done right tripple the number.

87pickup · « **Reply #118 on:** Feb 09, 2010, 09:44:54 AM »

I swapped out my 22rte for a 2002 3rz mainly for reliabilty reaons but i feel my 3rz has quite a bit more torque than my old turbo motor. I would have to rev my old turbo motor more to avoid stalling on some obstacles where my 3rz just motors over them and i might have to just feather the throttle. Plus its ten times cleaner, more efficient, quiter and just plain looks cooler. And i think nothing sounds cooler than a turbo but the reliabilty of a ct20 turbo isnt very good when you do alot of off camber obstacles. Seems the turbos get starved for oil rather easily.

peacesells · « **Reply #119 on:** Feb 09, 2010, 12:46:33 PM »

Ever since i bought my 3rz my 22re has been runnin great! It knows it will get

canned as soon as I drive up a long hill...

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