Topic: Toybrota's 22R build

[Toybrota]

Hi T....

Your commentary on how to do a successful basic rebuild is as well said as I've ever read! 

I wish I'd read it before I did MY rebuild! 

I believe the Toyota engineers designed your engine to run at 4,000 RPMs ALL DAY LONG.... it won't hurt it to tach it up. 

Gnarls. 

Thanks for that bit of info!
You are right, my kind has been conditioned to think more speed = increased wear but it really isn't that different from 2900 (I think 65mph?) And 75 (3200 I think). I wanna drive this truck daily, I can't wait to tear this thing down at 250K and check out the internals! I'll be driving this thing a ton mainly because of....
I quit my day job to become a local welder and small Toyota mechanic, doing jobs for local friends. Tons of people around this area that have these trucks! A drive through Portland Oregon yields a very distracted driver, so many Toyota's turning my head.
Driving my example of my Craftsmanship and success is enough of proof of my quality of work, and boy is there plenty.

I'll drop a bit of info here too....

I'm developing a cup holder that replaces the stock Ash tray on second gen trucks. That's all I'm gonna say for now!

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[Lewis Hein]

A number of people who routinely rev their 22R engines up high seem end up with rod knocks. And before anyone brings on the stories about "I revved my 22R to 8000 all day long and it went a gajillion miles", I'm starting a thread for just that over here so as not to highjack this one

https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=104043.msg1165747#msg1165747

Exciting news about your new venture! I wish you the best of luck.

[Gnarly4X]

A number of people who routinely rev their 22R engines up high seem end up with rod knocks.

Lewis....

Since the essence of Toybrota’s thread, and ongoing discussion, is engine rebuilding and longevity, here are more thoughts on your comment and gathering “data” to “benefit from a solid answer to the question: does revving my 22R engine higher shorten it’s life?”

There are many studies performed on engine parts.  Each manufacturer of engine parts has done enormous engineering design, testing, and subsequent research and analysis of failure.

Bearings are one part that has been studied extensively throughout the history of the modern production of the internal combustion engine.

For example, in one study by a well-known manufacturer of bearings, the causes of rod bearing failure has no correlation between actual engine RPMs, high or low.
Over revving an engine can induce “overload” – one of the causes of rod bearing failure. However, the misconception inferred in your statement does not apply.  The redline for Toyota's factory 22R is 5,500 RPMs.  As sirdeuce stated, at that RPM torque and HP drops significantly. Most of us are not going to tach our stock 22R engines that high very frequently.  Taching a 22R to 4,000 or 4,500 frequently is well below Toyota’s redline. But more importantly, it is in the absolute range for designed peak HP.

So why would the best automotive engineers on the planet design and market an engine, arguably now with a legendary status of very high reliability and longevity, and NOT be revv’d to its peak horsepower rating?  For a healthy 22R is rod bearing failure a risk at 5,500 RPMs?  NO.  5,500 RPMs is a threshold designed in to prevent premature bearing failure.

Back to overloading…. The main reason bearings fail due to overloading is DETONATION - NOT HIGH RPMs.

The major causes of premature bearing failure are:
Dirt – 45.4%
Misassembly – 12.8%
Misalignment – 12.6%
Insufficient Lubrication – 11.4%
Overloading – 8.1%
Corrosion – 3.7%
Improper Journal Finish – 3.2%
Other – 2.8%

By the way.... the study I referenced above does mention "RPMs"... twice.  Once regarding selecting the correct motor oil viscosity, and the other regarding choosing the correct bearings specifically designed for higher revving engines.

Gnarls - that's my pomp 'n stink on revving my engine "up high". 

[Toybrota [OP]]

Thought I'd give an update to everyone! Typing this on a different state, yesterday I left Portland on my big trip in the Toyota.
Drove about 420 miles yesterday, and about 300 today. In Logan Utah for the week, and then I'll make my way to Salt Lake and maybe down thru into California. Haven't decided yet! Lots of mines I'd love to explore out in the desert, but that's a topic for another forum.

The truck did fantastic, not a single issue. Well, I had a couple of small freak leaks. Woke up this morning too a tiny puddle of antifreeze under the truck, and a bit inside the splash pan. I can literally not find where it came from, everything seems fine. Since I found the leak, 300 miles later... No more leakage.
One of the back heater hoses had a small wet spot, I commonly feel them to see if they seep. I snugged the clamp up more, and its fine.
The spot I stopped at for the night was a rest stop right off the freeway, so maybe the rad built up pressure and let a bit out the cap? Did the alumaseal do its job? Why is the sky blue? Why don't my parents like eac- that's enough questions. Temps the whole way were great, 170°-190° and nothing higher. Checked the rad, perfect amount in it and the same that was in the expansion tank when I left. I'm not gonna worry, it's been fine since. I carry enough antifreeze to do a whole change if I need to.

Fuel efficiency has been pretty good! It's definitely gotten worse as I gained altitude, as the truck was tuned for sea level back home. It's about 4500 ft where I am now, and I expect I'll drive over some decent passes. I calculated 22MPG on my way from Portland to Pendleton, and from there it went lower.
I brought my Jet kit with me, Weber says to only change the air corrector jets so you don't lose power. Makes sense to me, so I'll probably go a full step on the air correctors for both the primary and secondary.
I'd imagine this would bump up the fuel economy, I brought a set of plugs to throw in but I doubt I will need to. So many guys go on trips with these and don't tune them, so I may not. I doubt it's rich enough to get fuel in the oil, I think I'd know at that point!

Speaking of oil! No consumption, whatsoever.
Just as full as when I changed it, 800 miles ago. Just as clean, too! Not that color is always an indicator on quality. Had a steady 60+ psi of oil pressure, cruising at around 2900-3200 RPM the whole way. I stay around 70-75 mph, which the truck seems to like!
The valvetrain is just as quiet as it was when I left, something I'm very happy about.

For a few weeks before I left, I get this awful noise whenever I let the clutch off and torque the drivetrain hard. Seems to me like the fan is hitting the shroud, so I may remove the shroud. Not really the end of the world, I know the motor and transmission mounts could use a refresh. I could literally do all of these at the Yotamasters parking lot, maybe I will. Been meaning to go check them out!

Brakes are pretty bad, rotors are pretty warped. I'll address that when I get home. Not bad enough to not drive it.

Stoked for this trip! Thanks for everything that you have all done, the advice and tips have done a lot!

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[Gnarly4X]

 

Sounds like you are having early Toyota truck fun!

If the fan is rubbing on the fan shroud, you should look to see if the driver's side motor mount is broken.

Gnarls.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Sounds like you are having early Toyota truck fun!

If the fan is rubbing on the fan shroud, you should look to see if the driver's side motor mount is broken.

Gnarls.

I'll check! I didn't replace my motor mounts, that's coming soon.
It's not even consistent, so it may not be the fan shroud. All I know, the motor runs great!

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[Toybrota [OP]]

Found out where my "freak leak" came from! Just a simple dribble from the upper rad hose clamp, I gave it a snug and it seems fine.
Bottom intake plate still seeps, I may take care of that when I get home...
Yesterday I tuned the Weber a bit for the altitude that I'm at, since where I live it's essentially sea level (250' give or take) and where I'm at now, it's 4,500'.
I anticipate that I'll go higher than 4,500', especially if I am going down thru death valley into California.
I have over a week to drive and watch this truck before making that decision, I'm sure it'll be fine!
I dropped only the primary idle from a 55, to a 50. What a difference! Before during cold starts, choke was way too much fuel. You could surely smell it.
Different story now. I didn't even have to mess with the idle mixture screw, it's perfect. A slight turn to the right and it starts to not have enough fuel, so it's fairly close to the "Lean Best Idle" that Weber recommends. It's nice knowing that I all I have to do, is drop that jet size. Such an easy adjustment! I love this carb so much!

Did I mention how awful parking in Logan Utah is? So anti-visitor friendly. I have to move my truck throughout the day to avoid a parking ticket, already got a warning citation!

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[Toybrota [OP]]

Been back home for a few days, and the truck has been nothing but great. As expected.
Talk about power increase at sea level, I easily lost 20HP when I was up at altitude. At least, that's what my rear end Dino says. I can't describe how great this thing drives, perfect amounts of power and torque. Really makes this a perfect daily driver. The brakes leave a ton to be desired, but I won't clog the Marlin forum with stock truck brake rebuilds, no one cares.

Radiator apparently seeps out the bottom, which doesn't make sense considering it's a fully Tig welded radiator. I can do some Tig on DC, I've heard some say helium sometimes works on DC with Aluminum. I'll have to see.
Air cleaner did its job wonderfully, I pulled it off the other day to see if any dust had made its way past. Nope, perfectly clean.
 
I'm at about 12,000 miles on the rebuild now, first startup was December 29th of last year. We may hit 15K on the first year of driving the rebuild, that's a LOT of miles for me. What better truck to drive, she always brings me home.
Here's to you, 22R!!

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[Gnarly4X]

Been back home for a few days, and the truck has been nothing but great. As expected.
Talk about power increase at sea level, I easily lost 20HP when I was up at altitude. At least, that's what my rear end Dino says. I can't describe how great this thing drives, perfect amounts of power and torque. Really makes this a perfect daily driver. The brakes leave a ton to be desired, but I won't clog the Marlin forum with stock truck brake rebuilds, no one cares.

Radiator apparently seeps out the bottom, which doesn't make sense considering it's a fully Tig welded radiator. I can do some Tig on DC, I've heard some say helium sometimes works on DC with Aluminum. I'll have to see.
Air cleaner did its job wonderfully, I pulled it off the other day to see if any dust had made its way past. Nope, perfectly clean.
 
I'm at about 12,000 miles on the rebuild now, first startup was December 29th of last year. We may hit 15K on the first year of driving the rebuild, that's a LOT of miles for me. What better truck to drive, she always brings me home.

Hey T…..

On the brakes, if your truck has the adjustable proportioning valve, you can adjust the leveling bar/lever.  I had to make an extended bar to get the valve to open more to the rear brakes. This made a huge difference in braking.  I adjusted it to lock up under sudden very heavy braking, which is not good on the streets because once in awhile when the rear wheels locked up, the back end wants to come around.  And, the big tires will howl as they skid.  BUT… for my rock crawling I needed more braking at rear end.  Also, when we did overnight or long weekend runs, I loaded up the bed and the extra braking at rear tires was very noticeable.  I also found that ceramic pads for the front calipers work better, even though they tend to chew up the rotors quicker. 

On the radiator, I’m curious if you found the leak and is it really just poor quality welding or fabrication alloy. 

Yeah… elevation increase from sea level with that carb’d engine will lose about 4 HP for every 1,000 foot climb. 

Gnarls. 

[Toybrota [OP]]

Hey Everyone! (Well, those still interested in this build...)
I apologize about not updating anything, I have been too busy enjoying this truck!
Well, that, and the Android "Tap a Talk" application I used previously has turned into garbage (Can't post more than one photo, and they removed quality uploads)
As of now, I have 14,300 Miles on the rebuild! Dec 29' Marked the one year mark since I initially started the motor up for the first time, and I have daily driven it ever since. This truck still has its fair share of quirks, but the motor isn't really one of them.
I still have a slight miss at idle, despite smoke checking and searching for vacuum leaks religiously. This is also a carburetor... They aren't perfect. I am unsure if my slight miss is fuel based, or ignition. The miss-fire will get slightly worse after driving and stopping at a light. This tells me something Carburetor based. Again, they aren't perfect.
I went and adjusted the float in my Weber, and I believe I have a really good tune for drivability and economy. On a jaunt up I5 to Bainbridge Island, I averaged about 21MPG! I must be doing something right if I am getting these numbers...
Oil consumption? Nada. Oil leaks? Just from the distributor O-ring (no burrs in the bore).
This truck has been mighty fun to daily, it feels like a Go-Kart. Just about as safe.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Hey T…..

On the brakes, if your truck has the adjustable proportioning valve, you can adjust the leveling bar/lever.  I had to make an extended bar to get the valve to open more to the rear brakes. This made a huge difference in braking.  I adjusted it to lock up under sudden very heavy braking, which is not good on the streets because once in awhile when the rear wheels locked up, the back end wants to come around.  And, the big tires will howl as they skid.  BUT… for my rock crawling I needed more braking at rear end.  Also, when we did overnight or long weekend runs, I loaded up the bed and the extra braking at rear tires was very noticeable.  I also found that ceramic pads for the front calipers work better, even though they tend to chew up the rotors quicker. 

Thanks for this bit of info. My truck DOES have an adjustable proportioning valve, and I have yet to mess with it.
I believe the brakes are just worn, the shoes have material just not a ton. Cracked both the rear drums getting them off the axle shaft, they froze on there good... And I am still running them!
I am planning to just do all the brakes on this thing. Rotors, Drums, shoes... Pads... Even wheel cylinders.
Well, thats the plan.

On the radiator, I’m curious if you found the leak and is it really just poor quality welding or fabrication alloy. 

Yeah… elevation increase from sea level with that carb’d engine will lose about 4 HP for every 1,000 foot climb. 

Gnarls. 

[Toybrota [OP]]

Truck has been great, swapped in a nice V6 rad. After being sick and tired of screw clamp leaks, I opted for OEM rad hose clamps. Perfect tension.
Nearing 20K miles on the build here, and it's been pretty great. No oil leaks/consumption
The offenhauser has caused inconsistent temp spikes since day one, a good friend with an identical build faces the same exact issues. Same intake, same carb, big rad, electric fans.
LC engineering, the supplier... Won't help. The mandatory center head block plate, which blocks hot coolant from exiting the head directly to the Water-pump then radiator, has got to be a cause.
Currently run the V6 metal rad, 180 degree thermostat, and stock fan. There's a 1/16" hole drilled in the thermostat, which has only slightly helped.
In short, the offenhauser is trash. Replace your magnetic pickup, and only use spring clamps on the hoses.

Thanks everyone for the help!

[Gnarly4X]

In short, the offenhauser is trash.

Hey T...

I happy to read that your engine is running great!

You might consider calling Jim at 22RE Performance and ask him if he has a suggestion.  He was designing his own intake manifold, but I haven't heard anything about it lately.

Gnarls.

[cbeers]

how come this isn't on your thread Gnarly?

 

CB

[Gnarly4X]

how come this isn't on your thread Gnarly?

 

CB

CB.... wow... thanks for letting me know.  I have no idea how I made that mistake! 

BUT.... I'd rather have Toybrota's engine!!! 

Gnarls.

[Groundpounder17]

Gnarly referred me to this thread and I finally read all 23 pages.  Great thread with tons of great info!  Great job on the build