Author Topic: Toybrota's 22R build  (Read 39202 times)

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Gillesdetrail

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #480 on: Apr 01, 2019, 03:55:46 PM »
0 deg btdc? That sounds strange to me, I run 12-14 inital with a modified more agressive timing curve, I do run 91oct all the time. The decoloration of the ground strap should be in the apex of the curve. With the vac disconected I suggest 8btdc initial and 32-34 total advance. This should not feel slower than the stock setup. Not a ton faster but not slower. With more timing your power and fuel economy will go up.

WOT af/r should not be above 13.1:1 for maximum power and 13.5:1 for safety, but with a narrowband it is hard to tell.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #481 on: Apr 02, 2019, 11:20:25 AM »
0 deg btdc? That sounds strange to me, I run 12-14 inital with a modified more agressive timing curve, I do run 91oct all the time. The decoloration of the ground strap should be in the apex of the curve. With the vac disconected I suggest 8btdc initial and 32-34 total advance. This should not feel slower than the stock setup. Not a ton faster but not slower. With more timing your power and fuel economy will go up.

WOT af/r should not be above 13.1:1 for maximum power and 13.5:1 for safety, but with a narrowband it is hard to tell.
Yes, I was running 0° BTDC. That's what LC engineering said.

Yesterday I set it at 5° BTDC, which is what the early 22R likes. I've found this works the best for me. I'm also running 91 octane, nothing else but 91 has been in this motor.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #482 on: Apr 02, 2019, 11:27:01 AM »
Been driving the truck without any issues. Starts right up when it's below 40° with ease.
I have noticed a idle surge when the motor is cold, I can "clear it out" by holding it at 1100 RPM before it runs smooth (with the choke on)
Sounds to me like it's running too rich when it's cold. Then again, I am pulling the choke all the way out, which makes the mixture rich. I'll try half way on the choke for now on and see.

Still holds and maintains freeway speed easily, the worn out front end vibrates at anything over 65.
No worry, I'm planning a full front end rebuild like I did on my other truck.

Headlights drop the RPM enough for it to run noticeably rougher. This truck has always had a slight rumble in the seat at idle (so has just about every old Toyota I've driven).
I've found the best idle is around 750-800, anything lower than that and she's a bit rough. Sounds like carb tuning to me.

Thanks again for the monumental amount help and advice you have all given, it definitely is appreciated.

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #483 on: Apr 02, 2019, 11:41:17 AM »
Been driving the truck without any issues. Starts right up when it's below 40° with ease.
I have noticed a idle surge when the motor is cold, I can "clear it out" by holding it at 1100 RPM before it runs smooth (with the choke on)
Sounds to me like it's running too rich when it's cold. Then again, I am pulling the choke all the way out, which makes the mixture rich. I'll try half way on the choke for now on and see.

Full foot to the floor at freeway showed 13.5 on the AFR, sounds decent to me.

Still holds and maintains freeway speed easily, the worn out front end vibrates at anything over 65.
No worry, I'm planning a full front end rebuild like I did on my other truck.

Headlights drop the RPM enough for it to run noticeably rougher. This truck has always had a slight rumble in the seat at idle (so has just about every old Toyota I've driven).
I've found the best idle is around 750-800, anything lower than that and she's a bit rough. Sounds like carb tuning to me.
If you get on the throttle, there's a slight hesitation before it picks up. Too much fuel? Not enough?
Thanks again for the monumental amount help and advice you have all given, it definitely is appreciated.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #484 on: Apr 04, 2019, 05:59:52 AM »
Engine won't idle below 800 without getting noticeably rougher. Enough to feel it in my seat

Had the same issue with the stock carb and intake.

I can't set it at the idle speed of 700. I have to set the idle at about 800-900, headlights/blower drop it enough to make it run rough.

Not sure what the deal with this is.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #485 on: Apr 04, 2019, 10:37:11 AM »
Why are you concerned about the idle RPMs?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #486 on: Apr 04, 2019, 10:48:58 AM »
Why are you concerned about the idle RPMs?

Gnarls.
Because I worry about everything. And I expect it to be perfect.
Just part of who I am. My expectations for this have clearly overstepped what they should be.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #487 on: Apr 04, 2019, 11:35:53 AM »
Because I worry about everything. And I expect it to be perfect.
Just part of who I am. My expectations for this have clearly overstepped what they should be.

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My 22R idled between 850 and 900 and it was happy.

If you have very a rough idle, like a misfire, then you may want to diagnose it.

It's probably AFR - mixture - so carb, or it may be ignition - but typically not unless there is a misfire at other RPMS, or it's mechanical - disty, valve lash, or a valve issue - bad valves/seats, leak.  Could be vacuum.  Could be the cam profile.

Just thinking out loud.

And... it's OK to be anal about your truck. :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #488 on: Apr 04, 2019, 12:09:26 PM »
Thanks for the comments Gnarls. It's not a missfire, just a rough rumbly idle.
Drives like a raped ape once you get on the throttle.
Literally every aspect of how it runs is great minus the idle.
I'll just take what I've got and deal with it.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #489 on: Apr 04, 2019, 02:11:00 PM »
no issue if not smogging but a high idle will fail the test.
it happened to me after the top end.

CB

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #490 on: Apr 04, 2019, 02:13:39 PM »
... just a rough rumbly idle.


I love a rumbly idle!!.... sounds like it SHOULD run like a raped ape! :gap:

Gnarls. :beerchug:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #491 on: Apr 04, 2019, 08:27:38 PM »
Clocked in at 16.5 miles per gallon. That's pretty good for a Weber I'd say! May drop the secondary jet a size.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #492 on: Apr 05, 2019, 03:52:20 AM »
Clocked in at 16.5 miles per gallon. That's pretty good for a Weber I'd say! May drop the secondary jet a size.

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What is your elevation?

What octane fuel are you burning?

As you know, your right foot has a lot to do the MPG.  In town and freeway driving and road grade level can effect MPG.

AFR, carb tuning, and engine tuning can effect MPG.

My basically stock 85 22R, standard cab, averaged 19 to 20 on 89 octane gas.  My average elevation was about 1100 feet.  I did not baby my truck.

16.5 MPG could be good mileage for your elevation?

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #493 on: Apr 05, 2019, 04:05:09 AM »
I have just found over time that I have to find the happy place for each engine in regards to things like ignition timing and idle RPMs. For instance you may very well find that a bit more ignition advance will pick you up a mile per gallon or so.  We modify these things to the point that the stock settings are moot anyway so don't chew off your fingernails trying to get it to act like a stock engine at sea level.

I also find that for tuning what the engine likes in winter will vary a bit from what it wants in the warmer months, even to the point of a richer primary idle jet in the winter.  Nice thing about the Weber is that you can swap that out in seconds.
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #494 on: Apr 05, 2019, 08:22:32 AM »
What is your elevation?

What octane fuel are you burning?

As you know, your right foot has a lot to do the MPG.  In town and freeway driving and road grade level can effect MPG.

AFR, carb tuning, and engine tuning can effect MPG.

My basically stock 85 22R, standard cab, averaged 19 to 20 on 89 octane gas.  My average elevation was about 1100 feet.  I did not baby my truck.

16.5 MPG could be good mileage for your elevation?

Gnarls.
I'm at about 4500' in elevation.
91 octane (only fuel I've ran in it since the rebuild)

5° BTDC for the timing. I had someone recommend that I advance it to 8° or even 12°. I'll have to fiddle with it and see.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #495 on: Apr 05, 2019, 08:24:28 AM »
I have just found over time that I have to find the happy place for each engine in regards to things like ignition timing and idle RPMs. For instance you may very well find that a bit more ignition advance will pick you up a mile per gallon or so.  We modify these things to the point that the stock settings are moot anyway so don't chew off your fingernails trying to get it to act like a stock engine at sea level.

I also find that for tuning what the engine likes in winter will vary a bit from what it wants in the warmer months, even to the point of a richer primary idle jet in the winter.  Nice thing about the Weber is that you can swap that out in seconds.
I definitely know what you mean about tuning for the time of year too. Both my trucks run significantly better when it's warm out.

How fast can you change your main Jets? I'm not that fast... Yet.


All of this tuning stuff will have to be done over again when I move in less than a month. Portland is at 50' in elevation.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #496 on: Apr 05, 2019, 09:07:36 PM »
Main jets in the bowl, maybe 7-10 minutes.  I need to change my secondary idle jet one step richer.  I have a slight dip when I get into the secondary and that transition is when you feel the secondary idle jet, then when you get the secondary main it takes off.  It was et up for my hybrid with the stock cam and I think the 282 cam just gulps a bit more at that point.  So cool how much you can tweak the characteristics of these things.
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #497 on: Apr 06, 2019, 12:53:28 PM »
Hey everyone! Just got back from the first real "Road trip" in this truck with the new motor.
The truck did phenomenally well! I put about 190 miles on it between today and yesterday, all freeway.
Salt Lake to Logan valley in Utah takes about an hour and a half, 90 miles there and 90 back.
Truck had NO problem doing 75 the whole way, I am a little weary of having that motor spinning at 3,200 + RPM,
but I can't imagine it would cause any issues at all.
I stayed in the primaries as much as I could, the occasional full throttle to help up some grades.

The elevation between Salt Lake and Logan are about the same, but they are separated by a large canyon road. Never had to downshift
below 4th, 60mph was the slowest it did uphill.

Truck ran cool as it ever will, about 175 degrees the whole way. I am more than happy with that!
Oil pressure was a constant 60-65PSI at 2,500 to 3,000 RPM. Right where it should be (Conventional 5W30)
Fuel mileage? I think I have close to half a tank left, which is fantastic for clocking 190 miles.
Timing at 5 degrees BTDC, 91 Octane. Never had to fiddle with the carb. Ran as great up there as it did down where I am.

Now for the not so great... The bottom intake plate is leaking. Not badly at all, just a VERY light seepage. No drop in coolant level.
LCE recommended silicone when installing the bottom plate. I did my usual "The right Stuff" with the gasket. There is clear machining
"Differences" (Clearly errors) to the point LC engineering mentions it in the install instructions.
Now, I am very anal about leaks but I don't think I am about this one. I will attempt to clean the area its leaking from, and smear a bit of silicone to prevent any further seepage. If it still seeps, I will just pull the bottom plate off and fix the issue. Luckily, the intake doesn't
have to come off for this.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #498 on: Apr 06, 2019, 03:43:51 PM »

Truck had NO problem doing 75 the whole way, I am a little weary of having that motor spinning at 3,200 + RPM,
but I can't imagine it would cause any issues at all.


What are you "weary" about?  :dunno:

Gnarls.  :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #499 on: Apr 06, 2019, 08:28:22 PM »
What are you "weary" about?  :dunno:

Gnarls.  :inthedark:
Long durations of high RPM driving. Toyota never designed these trucks to go 70+.
I just feel 3200 RPM is a bit high for long continuous driving.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #500 on: Apr 06, 2019, 08:31:07 PM »
Got the new air cleaner adapter installed with my old air cleaner. Works great, the adapter is DEFINITELY worth it. Now I can find a replacement air cleaner wherever I am, with tons of options being it's 5 1/8".

Interestingly enough, the truck now idles WAY better than before. Today it would idle around 850-900, but now it's at a solid 700 and runs smooth.

I also calculated my MPG, and I got a little over 19.5 MPG! That's fantastic for the freeway, and I imagine I could see much higher if I didn't abuse the skinny pedal as much.

Now if I could just fix the pesky leak....

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #501 on: Apr 07, 2019, 04:10:14 AM »
Hey T…

Wow… you really have that little hummer tweaked!  Great job!   :beerchug:

With the correct jetting adjustments, 19.5 MPG at your elevation would most likely translate to over 22 to 25 MPG at sea level!  Your right foot is worth 1 or 2 miles per gallon more or less.  :thumbs:

For your leak…. Based on what I used for thread sealer on my input shaft seal job – I used this base upon Permatex’s recommendation:

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe/

I really liked the consistency, contact feel, and sealing power.

If I were you I’d try this:

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-performance-thread-sealant/

Again T, I really enjoy and appreciate you sharing and posting your updates and photos on your project.  :yesnod:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #502 on: Apr 07, 2019, 08:49:14 AM »
Hey T…

Wow… you really have that little hummer tweaked!  Great job!   :beerchug:

With the correct jetting adjustments, 19.5 MPG at your elevation would most likely translate to over 22 to 25 MPG at sea level!  Your right foot is worth 1 or 2 miles per gallon more or less.  :thumbs:

For your leak…. Based on what I used for thread sealer on my input shaft seal job – I used this base upon Permatex’s recommendation:

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe/

I really liked the consistency, contact feel, and sealing power.

If I were you I’d try this:

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-performance-thread-sealant/

Again T, I really enjoy and appreciate you sharing and posting your updates and photos on your project.  :yesnod:

Gnarls.  :gap:
Thanks Gnarls!

For the leak, it's leaking out of the gasket on the bottom intake manifold plate. Not sure why it's leaking, I used a gasket and cleaned the surfaces. LC engineering says there are sometimes casting defects and they recommend the use of silicone on the bolt threads. I just silicone sealed the entire thing with the gasket.

Thread sealant likewise wouldn't do anything here?
It's easy to do this job, the intake doesn't have to come off. But it will be hard cleaning the bottom of the intake. I can actually do it from below.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #503 on: Apr 11, 2019, 04:06:02 PM »
I've hit over 3K miles on the rebuild, and just about 3K on this oil change. Haven't had to add oil once...
I got a new Edlebrock air cleaner, and I am very impressed with the quality. Especially where it seals...
Pic of the coolant leak as well, I'm continuing to drive it until I can fix it. I move here in 3 weeks, if it ain't broke don't fix it! I have the gasket, just waiting.

I also need to seal the pan again, it leaks a bit. No worry.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #504 on: Apr 11, 2019, 07:47:09 PM »

Pic of the coolant leak as well.... 

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-performance-thread-sealant/

Thin layer on both sides of gasket, lightly coated on bolts/nuts.  :thumbs:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #505 on: Apr 11, 2019, 07:56:59 PM »
https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-performance-thread-sealant/

Thin layer on both sides of gasket, lightly coated on bolts/nuts.  :thumbs:

Gnarls.
So just to clarify, you want me to use thread sealant on the gasket itself?

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #506 on: Apr 12, 2019, 04:08:31 AM »
So just to clarify, you want me to use thread sealant on the gasket itself?

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What has worked so far to stop the leak?

I believe that thread sealer will do the trick.

I would clean the manifold and head mating surfaces and the threads on the bolts and nuts with a good solvent - carb cleaner, lacquer thinner, acetone, or MEK.  Before applying the thread sealer to the gasket and installing the manifold, I would drain the radiator to eliminate the coolant contacting the sealer , at least over night.  After applying it to the gasket, I would let the sealer "cure" a little for about 1 hour, then I would apply the sealer to the bolts/nuts and install the manifold.  Torque bolts/nuts to spec. FILL THE RADIATOR WITH COOLANT. Drive the truck for a couple hours - then recheck the bolts/nut

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2019, 06:18:01 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #507 on: Apr 12, 2019, 04:21:56 AM »

For the leak, it's leaking out of the gasket on the bottom intake manifold plate. Not sure why it's leaking...

Are you sure the coolant is leaking out through that gasket?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #509 on: Apr 12, 2019, 05:36:15 PM »
I am sure, it's not leaking from the bolt holes.
Plus, I used silicone on the bolts themselves. LC engineering recommended it.
But, I like your idea for using the sealant on the threads. No harm in trying it!

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