Topic: Toybrota's 22R build

[Gnarly4X]

Move 

Hey Lewis....

Move?  Where to?

You couldn't blow me out of Arizona with a hydrogen BOMB!! 

Gnarls. 

[Lewis Hein]

Move?  Where to?

Move to Mexico where all those Toyotas are.

[Gnarly4X]

Move to Mexico where all those Toyotas are.

MOVE TO MEXICO!!!! 

Lewis, Lewis, Lewis...

You want me to die?

Mexico is one of the most disease ridden countries in world!!

You can't even drink the water or eat the lettuce!

Nope.... been to Mexico a number of times.  You could not pay me enough to move there. PERIOD. 

In fact, I probably will NEVER visit Mexico again.

I am upset about the number of our early Toyota trucks being hauled across the border.

Gnarls. 

[Toybrota [OP]]

Trucks arrived in Portland. Waiting at the Sunrise Express center until I get up there.
At least the singlecab ran well enough for them to get it off the trailer. Hopefully it runs at that elevation!

Leaving Thursday... Should see my trucks Friday.

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[Toybrota [OP]]

MOVE TO MEXICO!!!! 

Lewis, Lewis, Lewis...

You want me to die?

Mexico is one of the most disease ridden countries in world!!

You can't even drink the water or eat the lettuce!

Nope.... been to Mexico a number of times.  You could not pay me enough to move there. PERIOD. 

In fact, I probably will NEVER visit Mexico again.

I am upset about the number of our early Toyota trucks being hauled across the border.

Gnarls. 

Agreed. I'm sure there are nice places in Mexico, just not nice enough for me to want to go. Tons of old mines, but the unrest and cartel really sway me away from wanting to visit.

I guess I don't understand why the people down there buy so many of the trucks here to take back, they can get their hands on Diesel Hilux trucks, just buy those!
The 22R I pulled from the singlecab got sold to a guy who was taking it down to south America. Hope he gets it working good.

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[Toybrota [OP]]

Arrived in Vancouver, trucks get delivered on Monday.
Stoked!
My Honda XR650R runs better than it did in Salt Lake, I'm guessing from the lower elevation (4500' to 200')

Not sure how the Weber will run on the Singlecab, I'm running a size leaner than stock on the main Jets and I believe for the air Jets as well. What do you guys think, should I just run it how it is for a bit (assuming no backfires from being too lean) or immediately swap to the factory Weber Jets? I was going to throw a new set of plugs in for sure. I know the idle mixture adjustment affects open throttle as well, I may be able to richen it up if it doesn't run well.

My Xtracab should run as great as it did when I drove it to California. Which is slightly better than how bad it runs.

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[H8PVMNT]

I would probably guess you need to go back one step richer.  Just do the idle mixture screw test (see how many turns out it wants) and see what it tells you.

[emsvitil]

There's probably an online calculator that will tell you what size jet to use.

Enter old altitude, new altitude and old jet size and get new jet size...……...………..

[tgmaul88]

I see two toyotas pulling two toyotas at least once a week. In back window reads In Tow.      I sold two trucks to these guys and now there both in gutamula

[Gnarly4X]

I see two toyotas pulling two toyotas at least once a week. In back window reads In Tow.      I sold two trucks to these guys and now there both in gutamula

We shouldn't side-step this thread and topic. 

But... yeah... I have lived 2 hours from the Mexican border for the past 13 years, and I have seen this on average once a day.  I cannot imagine how many Toyotas have been and are being towed across our southern borders on a daily basis:

https://imgur.com/5OcjIBF

I spoke to a local Scottsdale police officer back in the late 80's when I moved to Arizona, he said they got stolen vehicle reports of 65 vehicles a day most of them Toyota trucks. 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

There's probably an online calculator that will tell you what size jet to use.

Enter old altitude, new altitude and old jet size and get new jet size...……...………..

I think calculators and data can be handy and provide a good look.

Even a good AFR gauge doesn’t always do the ultimate job of tuning an engine for best performance.

I have found that my ears and butt dyno, while taking time to experiment and test drive,
usually end up with my best feeling about the tuning.

I believe this is especially true for any engine that has been modified from purely factory stock.

Gnarls. 

[H8PVMNT]

This is a pretty good write up...  http://sv3power.com/?page_id=373

And this one,,,  http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/carburetor_set_up_and_lean_best_.htm

Basically however many turns your idle mixture screw needs to be out to have the thing idle right will indicate if your idle jet size is correct or not.  Everything else falls into place from seat of the pants feel and/or AFR readings.  There is a little wiggle room there.  I tend to run a jet richer in the winter time because it seems to help with the cold start and just runs better at sub zero temps.  In the summer with the same jet it will run on and diesel a bit when I shut it off so I pull it back one step leaner.

"If the mixture screw is more than 2 1/2  turns out turns then the Idle jet is too lean (too Small). When the mixture screw is less than 11/2  then the Idle jet is too rich (too large). These assumptions are based on the fact that the speed screw setting is not opened more than 11/2 turns."

[Toybrota [OP]]

This is a pretty good write up...  http://sv3power.com/?page_id=373

And this one,,,  http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/carburetor_set_up_and_lean_best_.htm

Basically however many turns your idle mixture screw needs to be out to have the thing idle right will indicate if your idle jet size is correct or not.  Everything else falls into place from seat of the pants feel and/or AFR readings.  There is a little wiggle room there.  I tend to run a jet richer in the winter time because it seems to help with the cold start and just runs better at sub zero temps.  In the summer with the same jet it will run on and diesel a bit when I shut it off so I pull it back one step leaner.

"If the mixture screw is more than 2 1/2  turns out turns then the Idle jet is too lean (too Small). When the mixture screw is less than 11/2  then the Idle jet is too rich (too large). These assumptions are based on the fact that the speed screw setting is not opened more than 11/2 turns."

Thanks for those links, they help a ton!
The turning of the idle mixture screw is what I have been basing my idle tune at.

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[Toybrota [OP]]

Both my trucks got dropped off today, I immediately set to get the Singlecab tuned so I can begin daily driving it.

It ran, and pretty good too. But I still went to the baseline jets that my carb came with, and I started from there. I'm currently running a size 140 in the main and secondary jets.
Idle jets are 50 for both. When running a 55 in the main idle, I found it flooded too much so I went a step down. Idles great!! I am going to get a vacuum gauge so I can set the idle accordingly for that.

I threw a new set of plugs in as well, and topped off with 92 octane premium. Pictures of the plugs below.
Definitely lean, but not that bad. I'll see how it runs at this altitude (200') and adjust from there!

First butt Dyno around tells me it runs really REALLY good. Better than it did back in Salt Lake.
I haven't messed with my timing yet.

Motor runs cool, between 170-190° and never higher. I got a IR thermometer so I can verify block/rad temps and see what my gauge is telling me.

Man, I love driving on the roads here in Vancouver/Portland. The express way for 205 is nice and twisty.

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[Gnarly4X]

First butt Dyno around tells me it runs really REALLY good. Better than it did back in Salt Lake.
I haven't messed with my timing yet.

Hey T,

Glad your Toys are running great.  I hope you are enjoying the big move.

Your spark plugs look fine.

Your engines will get a nice boost in power at your lower elevation. Your carb'd engine is more affected by elevation changes than the EFI engines.  A carb’d 22R can drop up to 4 HP for every 1,000 feet in elevation rise above sea level.

As you know, two changes are usually made for high elevation tuning – 1 – leaner mixture – less oxygen to burn fuel mixture, and 2 – advance in ignition timing to begin combustion earlier.

Oh... and your oil and coolant temperatures will drop slightly at your lower elevation.  Also, if your RH is higher, your engine will be happier.

Gnarls.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Hey T,

Glad your Toys are running great.  I hope you are enjoying the big move.

Your spark plugs look fine.

Your engines will get a nice boost in power at your lower elevation. Your carb'd engine is more affected by elevation changes than the EFI engines.  A carb’d 22R can drop up to 4 HP for every 1,000 feet in elevation rise above sea level.

As you know, two changes are usually made for high elevation tuning – 1 – leaner mixture – less oxygen to burn fuel mixture, and 2 – advance in ignition timing to begin combustion earlier.

Oh... and your oil and coolant temperatures will drop slightly at your lower elevation.  Also, if your RH is higher, your engine will be happier.

Gnarls.

I've definitely felt the power increase. Feels like I've gotten the full benefits of the intake!
The IR Thermometer reads about 170° when pointed at the thermostat neck with the mechanical temp gauge reading 180°
These are great temps, it goes to about 170° on the mechanical when freeway driving. These are fantastic numbers to keep it running cool in the summer. I'm pretty confident it'll run cool in the desert too.

It idles a bit rough when I restart it when it's warm, but after driving it idles smoother. To me this seems like it's too rich, dumping fuel that has to be cleared out by running it. What do you think?

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[Gnarly4X]

.... It idles a bit rough when I restart it ..... What do you think?

It is perfectly normal for a carb'd engine to idle rough at first start up and have to give the gas pedal a little foreplay.   

Gnarls. 

[Pat]

I've definitely felt the power increase. Feels like I've gotten the full benefits of the intake!
The IR Thermometer reads about 170° when pointed at the thermostat neck with the mechanical temp gauge reading 180°
These are great temps, it goes to about 170° on the mechanical when freeway driving. These are fantastic numbers to keep it running cool in the summer. I'm pretty confident it'll run cool in the desert too.

It idles a bit rough when I restart it when it's warm, but after driving it idles smoother. To me this seems like it's too rich, dumping fuel that has to be cleared out by running it. What do you think?

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That little Weber will idle beautifully hot or cold when set up right and no issues.   Pretty much every carb known to man will do the same.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a vacuum gauge so I can tune this truck to run better at idle.
Turn the mixture screw until you get the highest idle.
Set the idle from there? I'm going to read up on it more.
Seems to be getting great gas mileage according to the needle and trip meter. Thing runs good.
I don't believe it has a vacuum leak at all, but there's always the possibility of that. Thing is, it really runs too good for there to be one.
When I pinch the pcv hose the idle drops, which to me sounds like a well sealed system?
Who knows, it runs well now but I want it to be perfect.

Planning a trip this weekend, Vancouver to Astoria. Hour and a half there, 2 and a half down through Cannon Beach home. Beautiful part of the PNW. There's an OHV park but I don't have my carb modded for inclines yet.

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[Lewis Hein]

That little Weber will idle beautifully hot or cold when set up right and no issues.   Pretty much every carb known to man will do the same.

the trick is getting your carb set up right with no issues. Some are much harder to do this to than others

[Lewis Hein]

I've definitely felt the power increase. Feels like I've gotten the full benefits of the intake!
The IR Thermometer reads about 170° when pointed at the thermostat neck with the mechanical temp gauge reading 180°
These are great temps, it goes to about 170° on the mechanical when freeway driving. These are fantastic numbers to keep it running cool in the summer. I'm pretty confident it'll run cool in the desert too.

It idles a bit rough when I restart it when it's warm, but after driving it idles smoother. To me this seems like it's too rich, dumping fuel that has to be cleared out by running it. What do you think?

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this sounds great! I hope you're not measuring temperature directly of the metal surfaces, as infrared thermometers are not particularly accurate for shiny or near-shiny objects. Either way it sounds like you have a great running engine!

[Toybrota [OP]]

What a great day.

Filled up and calculated the fuel mileage... 20MPG!
That's with 92 octane at 200' of elevation.
That's about 50/50 of freeway (60mph) and city streets. I'd say that's pretty damn good, I'm very happy with the results. Still running great too, slight rumble in the seat at idle.... Just how a 22R should be. Intake plate seeps a bit still, only from one location now. I bought some more of the stop leak stuff recommended earlier, I figured when I blew the hose and lost all the coolant it probably lost a good amount of the stop leak powder too, so I'll throw half of the container in.

Not engine related, but I got a different set of wheels and tires as well!
American racing chrome wheels with Yokohama Geolanders in the stock 235/75/15 size. Or is stock a 225? Not sure. Paid $150 for the set, the tires have great tread and the wheels are balanced.
I definitely will do brand new tires once I get around to rebuilding the front axle.
My old wheels/tires caused a pretty serious vibration at speed, Les Schwab wouldn't balance them because the tires were so old (2004!).
The tires themselves are the culprit According to the tech at Les Schwab. My new to me used set run absolutely smooth on the freeway.
Not the best score price wise, but I absolutely love the wheels.

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[emsvitil]

Stock was the uncommon 225/75/15

[Gnarly4X]

Tires and wheels are cool.

My 85 22R got between 19 and 20 MPG on 89 octane at an average of about 1200 feet elevation.

Did you use this on the intake plate?......

https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-water-pump-thermostat-rtv-silicone-gasket/

“A noncorrosive, sensor-safe RTV silicone gasket material formulated specifically for water pumps and thermostat housings. Highest water-glycol resistance available in an RTV silicone.”


Or this:

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-performance-thread-sealant/

Not just on the treads.

Read the tech data sheet.

Gnarls.

[liveoak]

stock 235/75/15 size. Or is stock a 225? Not sure.

the stock tire size should be stated on the VIN sticker in the driver door jamb near the striker plate

[Toybrota [OP]]

Stock was the uncommon 225/75/15

That's what it is... I knew it was either that or 235.

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[Toybrota [OP]]

Tires and wheels are cool.

My 85 22R got between 19 and 20 MPG on 89 octane at an average of about 1200 feet elevation.

Did you use this on the intake plate?......

https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-water-pump-thermostat-rtv-silicone-gasket/

“A noncorrosive, sensor-safe RTV silicone gasket material formulated specifically for water pumps and thermostat housings. Highest water-glycol resistance available in an RTV silicone.”


Or this:

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-performance-thread-sealant/

Not just on the treads.

Read the tech data sheet.

Gnarls.

That's pretty good mileage. My Weber could probably be finer tuned for even more...
I advanced my timing a bit more to 8°, seems to run slightly better. I've heard of guys running even more advanced without issues (timing light set to 0°, twisting distributor so it flashes at 8° advanced on the oil pump marking)

My leak has significantly slowed down, I've since been driving it with a half a container of Alumaseal and it's barely seeping now.
I'll use that coolant resistant sealant when I take the plate off again, if I even need to...
I'll definitely be using the thread sealant you mentioned on all threaded assemblies from now on that come in contact with fluids.

I fixed the heat, I initially had it bi-passed the coolant lines for the core because I was sure I needed to replace it. The nipple the hose connects too was mangled from my attempts to remove the stock hose. I should have cut it. I was able to salvage it by cutting the sharp end off and sanding the edges down. No leaks, just great heat.

Truck runs great other than the slight rumble in the seat from a slight rough idle. Appears to idle fine when looking in from the engine bay, but a slight rumble is felt. I searched for vacuum leaks today and didn't see any, plugs don't show a leak. Maybe it's just like that, it is an old engine after all.
I have the idle about 800rpm, since the headlights/blower drop it about 100rpm.
It's possible I have a vacuum leak in the form of the oil pan gasket, the vacuum on this truck is pretty strong. Not sure if that could do it. Timing at the mentioned 8° advanced (no center vacuum line on the distributor).

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[Toybrota [OP]]

First real "Road Trip" was a success. Around 230 miles round trip. Went and visited one of my favorite places near the Oregon coast, Astoria!
Tons of cool old Toyota trucks along the way.

Truck did great, temp sat at about 175° the whole way. 60psi of oil Pressure at 2300 RPM. Great numbers, the motor is healthy!
Calculated fuel mileage before I left was 19.5 mpg.
The AFR gauge showed 13.5 when I had the foot all the way to the (mostly metal) floor. Not sure how accurate it is, truck runs good so I'm not worried.

Few mountain passes on the way back that went to 1500', no issues there either.

Coolant leak has Essentially stopped, very miniscule seepage. You wouldn't be able to tell it was leaking.

Has a light valve tap that goes away once it's warmed up, I can't really see the point in adjusting all the valves right now if it's just one that taps only when cold... Next oil change for sure. I think I'm going to start doing valve adjustments every 6,000 miles.

I also calculated how many miles total are on the rebuild, sitting right about 4500 miles! I'd say she's just about fully broken in. No oil loss attributed to burning. Pan leaks a bit, sounds like every Toyota ever.

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[Gnarly4X]

Glad to read that your little red truck is happy. 

You installed metal timing chain guides, right?

In my experience, valve lash is going to change, and it won’t hurt to check and re-adjust every 6,000 miles.  If you do, order a Beck Arlney Rocker Cover kit – P/N 036-1817. It’s made in Japan and as good as any I’ve tried.  The cover gasket will eventually go flat and get harder and may not seal well enough to prevent oil leaking.  I was able to R&R the cover 5 or 6 times before installing a new gasket kit… but you will know when its time to install a new kit.  After installing a new gasket kit, I rechecked and re-tightened the cover nuts after 100 miles .

Typically for me, the intake valve lash got loser, and the exhaust valve lash went a little tight.  I ended up the 7/11 on hot engine, on my 22R, after trying different lash settings on a factory stock cam.  If I ended up with one rebel rocker making more noise than the others, I’d go back in and tweak it just a tad tighter.  Usually, the tighter the lash the more it moves the power to the upper RPMs…. slightly less low end torque.  I always tried to get the rocker tick to be as even as possible on all 8 valves.  For my 22R, I couldn’t really tell the difference between 8/12 and 7/11 other than the rocker tick was quieter.  I’m not saying that’s the right thing to do, but I just didn’t like excessive uneven rocker tick.

On your oil pan leak, have you rechecked your pan bolts?... snug them up a little.

Gnarls.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Glad to read that your little red truck is happy. 

You installed metal timing chain guides, right?

In my experience, valve lash is going to change, and it won’t hurt to check and re-adjust every 6,000 miles.  If you do, order a Beck Arlney Rocker Cover kit – P/N 036-1817. It’s made in Japan and as good as any I’ve tried.  The cover gasket will eventually go flat and get harder and may not seal well enough to prevent oil leaking.  I was able to R&R the cover 5 or 6 times before installing a new gasket kit… but you will know when its time to install a new kit.  After installing a new gasket kit, I rechecked and re-tightened the cover nuts after 100 miles .

Typically for me, the intake valve lash got loser, and the exhaust valve lash went a little tight.  I ended up the 7/11 on hot engine, on my 22R, after trying different lash settings on a factory stock cam.  If I ended up with one rebel rocker making more noise than the others, I’d go back in and tweak it just a tad tighter.  Usually, the tighter the lash the more it moves the power to the upper RPMs…. slightly less low end torque.  I always tried to get the rocker tick to be as even as possible on all 8 valves.  For my 22R, I couldn’t really tell the difference between 8/12 and 7/11 other than the rocker tick was quieter.  I’m not saying that’s the right thing to do, but I just didn’t like excessive uneven rock tick.

On your oil pan leak, have you rechecked your pan bolts?... snug them up a little.

Gnarls.

Its a factory dual row motor, I pulled metal guides out of it! Replaced with an OSK dual row timing set.

I've been able to re-use my valve cover gasket several times, I got a new one last time it was off. No leaks out of my half Moon seals, hell yeah!

I've had good luck with 0.007 and 0.011 for my valve lashes, no noise from the rockers at the moment.
I did reground rockers, new valve adjusters and cam.

For the oil pan, it doesn't leak much. It appears it seeps around the whole seal area.
I'm going to buy a new pan I think, I know that the pan itself can get bent by the holes that might prevent it from sealing properly.

I plan to pull the pan next oil change, and re-seal it then. I purchased new hardware when I installed the pan when I built it, so new bolts and lock washers.

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