Global warming alert

[BLACKDOG]

All I can say is we'll be able to pick out the lefties because they'll be the ones walking funny because their asses are chapped!
I hope she's not the best and the brightest the left has to offer!
I'd write more, but I have to go out and get my "dining sleeve" equipped wardrobe.

Not to mention their new scent "eau de greenie"

[46&2]

Sheryl Crow, what a genius. Instead of limiting us to 2-3 slices of TP (unless your is sparkly clean i dont see how you can make do with that) why doesnt she use her vast bank accounts to give everyone in the USA one of those french toilets with the built in buttcrack-sprayer.

For once it seems the slobbs are ahead of their game, they wont even need to buy the shirts with built in napkins.

[kneedownnate]

If I had any respect for her she would have just lost it, but I long ago decided she was a waste of oxygen.  On my best day I'm lucky if I only use 20 sheets, but it's usually way more.  Hell, I'll gladly throw an extra sheet in there too and name it after her each time

[abnormaltoy]

Alright everybody...sit down, write today's date on the calendar! It's not often, ok it's never happened before, that I agree with Rosie or reference her in any way that might be considered positive.

So...here goes http://www.tmz.com/2007/04/23/rosie-to-sheryl-crow-have-you-seen-my-ass

Don't bug me about this in the future...I'm sure it won't happen again.






And in answer to her question at the end of this video...NO, THANK GOD!

[abnormaltoy]

If I had any respect for her she would have just lost it, but I long ago decided she was a waste of oxygen.  On my best day I'm lucky if I only use 20 sheets, but it's usually way more.  Hell, I'll gladly throw an extra sheet in there too and name it after her each time

Remember to wipe your Crow after every big Sheryl 

[kneedownnate]

Alright everybody...sit down, write today's date on the calendar! It's not often, ok it's never happened before, that I agree with Rosie or reference her in any way that might be considered positive.

Sad as it may be, I find myself agreeing with some of the things they report her saying on the news lately.  It'd be way too easy for all them's hollywierd types to have jumped on the "alec baldwin is a horrible parent" bandwagon, but I heard she actually responded to it in a more realistic parental way.  I'm sure my parents might have felt they went overboard when yelling at me about something....................  maybe?

[abnormaltoy]

Sad as it may be, I find myself agreeing with some of the things they report her saying on the news lately.  It'd be way too easy for all them's hollywierd types to have jumped on the "alec baldwin is a horrible parent" bandwagon, but I heard she actually responded to it in a more realistic parental way.  I'm sure my parents might have felt they went overboard when yelling at me about something....................  maybe?

I haven't heard her response. I was yelled at too and I got a whippin every now and then. Yelling isn't the problem, it's the name calling...in a kid, her age especially, name calling will cut deeper and leave more damage that hitting. He should be castrated with a pair of pinking shears.

[BLACKDOG]

Alright everybody...sit down, write today's date on the calendar! It's not often, ok it's never happened before, that I agree with Rosie or reference her in any way that might be considered positive.

So...here goes http://www.tmz.com/2007/04/23/rosie-to-sheryl-crow-have-you-seen-my-ass

Don't bug me about this in the future...I'm sure it won't happen again.






And in answer to her question at the end of this video...NO, THANK GOD!

  I don't even have to watch the video, the title is enough

I haven't heard her response. I was yelled at too and I got a whippin every now and then. Yelling isn't the problem, it's the name calling...in a kid, her age especially, name calling will cut deeper and leave more damage that hitting. He should be castrated with a pair of pinking shears.

Every single day of my life I was yelled at for something.  Not because my parents were abusive, but because I deserved it.  However, they NEVER once called me or any of my siblings names, and they NEVER hit us in anger, but rather in punishment.  I have 0 doubts about this.  Calling your 11 year old names because she doesn't answer her phone is stupid, cruel, immature, and extremely hurtful. 

[germ]

Think about how much pollution there is from humans all over the world, pollution that wasn't here before human life.

You bring up a good point here. I never suggested that we havn't polluted the world horribly, and I'm all for spending money and energy on cleaning up our mess. I try to do my part by picking up as much trash as I can while out wheeling, and help with trail maintenance.

The temperature increases unusually for the past pattern, the ocean temps are warmer, and the sea level rises...once a glacier melts to a certain point, it can't be stopped. Something is going on out of the ordinary.

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. Since the closest remnant of the human species didn't even show up until the last 4 million years or so, and  the currently accepted age of the earth is around 4.5 BILLION years, I will stand by my statement that we don't know 1/10th of 1% about this subject (and several others for that mater). They obviously didn't leave any documentation of what the world climate was, and I would suggest that if you were to plot out the length of time that we've been able to even think about this kind of thing (rather that worry about finding lunch or not becoming some other creatures lunch) it would be a barely perceptible dot on a very long piece of paper. We really don't know anything about this. We didn't even know what Ozone was or that there was a layer of it around the earth until the last 30+ years. Explain to me how we could possibly be experts in this. I'm sorry, but it just aint so.

But whatever you say doesnt change the scientific method and the law of causality to explain how scientists have come to the conclusion that weather patterns are irregular and there is global warming happening.

Your right, my saying it isn't so doesn't make it not so. However, "science" is a bit sketchy in many cases. (As a medical professional, I consider myself somewhat of a scientist, as much of what I do revolves directly around it, and I'm confronted with it daily). Science is based on developing a hypothesis, searching for evidence to support (as well as what goes against) your hypothesis, then doing reproduceable studies that will either confirm or destroy your hypothesis.

There are many very reputable scientists who have reviewed the studies that are done, and have concluded that the conclusions that the GW folks have come up with is wrong. There are others who can actually use the data to "prove" the exact opposite conclusion that the GW proponents use to try and support their claims.

A consensus only means that there are a bunch of "scientists" that agree. Does not mean that it is fact. Without trying to start a whole new "argument" here, I will bring up purely as example, Darwins "theory" of evolution. While we have **LOTS** of evidence to suggest it is accurate, there is no absolute solid **Proof**. (not trying to get started on that topic right now, but thought I'd rile up a few with it anyway)

You also bring up the idea of the "law of causality". I would suggest that this "law" is a good way to narrow down the possibilities, but does not prove anything. I'll give you a medical example, as I'm best versed in that:

You come into my ER with substernal chest pain, short of breath and sweating. The law of causality would say "your having a heart attack". Actually, the list of differential diagnosis is exceptionally long, and includes (among others) anxiety, reflux, dissecting aortic aneurysm, pleuresy, pneumonia, pancreatitis and many other more essoteric things. If I used "the law of causality" I could, and probably would mis-diagnose the problem, and could initiate treatment that would not only not help, but could actually kill my patient. You always have to look at other options and explanations.

Just because you find A very closley with C doesn't mean that there is no B inbetween there, and that the two are always directly linked to each other. Using causality can be a slippery slope that can easily lead you down the wrong path.

I've gone on about this long enough. We can continue the discussion later if you'd like.

Erik

[germ]

...the climate has been warming since then. We also know that the Sun's activity is also cyclical. Some suggest that the current level of solar activity is, at least in part, responsible for the warming trend. Still others suggest increased volcanic activity or variations in Earth's orbit are the culprit. I could be some confluence of all of these inputs causing the "problem". The point being, there are many, more logical, possible causes.

Again, I stand by my original statement that we puny humans are not capable of causing global warming. It is very egotistical for us to think we have the ability to completley change the world climate in such a short amount of time.

I believe that if we spent 50% of the money that has been used to study, litigate,advertise and make stupid movies about this subject, and put to use to solve some of the **REAL** problems that our world suffers from (Pick the one of your choice...famine, disease, etc) we could probably have made some significant inroads to solving these issues. If we gave the other 50% away as cash, everyone in the US would have money to go buy themselves an SUV and fill it with gas for a month.

This is a classic case of "If we talk long and loudly enough about the same thing, it will eventually turn into a "real entity", and make our position stronger, 'cause we were talking about it first." Kinda like if you stand on a corner and point into the sky long enough, eventually a crowd will form, and many if not all of them will start pointing to the sky as well. People want to feel like they are part of a group that holds the same beliefs. Problem is that the basic premis is wrong, and eventually (when the ice age finally gets here) they will all be proven to be wrong.

Erik

[TRHS1980]

A consensus only means that there are a bunch of "scientists" that agree. Does not mean that it is fact. Without trying to start a whole new "argument" here, I will bring up purely as example, Darwins "theory" of evolution. While we have **LOTS** of evidence to suggest it is accurate, there is no absolute solid **Proof**. (not trying to get started on that topic right now, but thought I'd rile up a few with it anyway)

I agree with pretty much everything that you said, but this one part I thought was a little twisted for the sake of arguement. If you really want to get that technical, you could go ahead and start talking about the theory of gravity. Niether you or I or anyone else on this planet has the qualities of God (all knowing, all powerfull, and perfectly good) and our senses can be confused from time to time. This must mean that just because we see the ball fall to the ground doesn't mean it did. Who's to say there is a ground at all? Or a ball for that matter? You can question anything and everything if you start getting too technical on things. Anyway, still a great point and a  for you.

Sincerely,
the theory of eliot

[abnormaltoy]

Again, I stand by my original statement that we puny humans are not capable of causing global warming.

I don't think you and I disagree on the issue...at least I don't disagree with you!

[BLACKDOG]

C'mon germ, stop talking so much, you're contributing to global warming again!




well said by the way 

[germ]

The thermal energy created by the kinetic energy of my fingers typing on a keyboard that provides resistance (potential energy) is certainly creating heat. Also the conversion of glucose to ATP thru the Kreb's cycle required to make the muscles in my fingers work will certainly equal at least 1-1.5 BTU, which in theory could raise the tempurature of 1cc of water by 1 degree celcius. This does not take into account the electrical energy that is created by the neurons in my brain while I'm thinking this crap up, nor the ohms (electrical resistance which creates heat) generated by the nervous impulses required to stimulate my muscle movements.

OK, I'm bored with this now. I'll just shut up.

Erik 

[germ]

but this one part I thought was a little twisted for the sake of arguement. If you really want to get that technical, you could go ahead and start talking about the theory of gravity. Niether you or I or anyone else on this planet has the qualities of God (all knowing, all powerfull, and perfectly good) and our senses can be confused from time to time. This must mean that just because we see the ball fall to the ground doesn't mean it did. Who's to say there is a ground at all? Or a ball for that matter? You can question anything and everything if you start getting too technical on things.

BD, your absolutly right. I really brought it up just to show the fallacy of the argument. In theory you could argue that any point made by anyone is wrong, because you can take it apart piece by piece and argue each individual aspect until it becomes moot. Just to pick a little (just 'cause I can...hehehe), Gravity is considered a "law", because it has been hypothisized, tested, and proven over and over, without fail.

This is actually a major problem with the higher education establishment right now. They have the theory of absolute relativism, which basically states that all views/beliefs (no matter how whacked out) are equally valid. It gives a false sense of validity to stupidity, which of course we all know what comes from that. It's really too bad that we've created a society where we have essentially defeated Darwins theory of survival (of the fittest). Most of these idiots would have died already 'cause they would have been eaten. Instead, we allow them to enter academia and pollute the minds of our best and brightest, which of course has led to "global warming"

Just my rantings. I'll once again shut up now.

Erik

[Lady Di]

Again, I stand by my original statement that we puny humans are not capable of causing global warming. It is very egotistical for us to think we have the ability to completley change the world climate in such a short amount of time.

absamalutely my good man. I my marlin friends.

It was probably said here.. but what were the dinosaurs here for ... millions of years.. and we are just a speck in the time on the life of the planet.... pahleeze!

[Lady Di]

Germ.. do not ever stop ranting... you are saying everything I want to but do not have the capability to put into words

[germ]

Well, I'll do my best! Thanks for the encouragement. All I need is a little fodder to get me going then WATCH OUT WORLD!!!!!

Erik

[abnormaltoy]

This is the best I could do on short notice...I din't know you were hungry!

[TRHS1980]

This is actually a major problem with the higher education establishment right now. They have the theory of absolute relativism, which basically states that all views/beliefs (no matter how whacked out) are equally valid. It gives a false sense of validity to stupidity, which of course we all know what comes from that. It's really too bad that we've created a society where we have essentially defeated Darwins theory of survival (of the fittest). Most of these idiots would have died already 'cause they would have been eaten. Instead, we allow them to enter academia and pollute the minds of our best and brightest, which of course has led to "global warming"
Erik

I couldn't agree more with that. In todays society they don't even need to enter academia, they just go online or turn on the tv and agree with the fattest person they can find (Michael Moore? Oprah? Rosie? Who could I be talking about???) That's okay, at least I can come to this board and hear some educated opinions. 

[germ]

In todays society they don't even need to enter academia, they just go online or turn on the tv and agree with the fattest person they can find (Michael Moore? Oprah? Rosie? Who could I be talking about???)

You bring up an excellent point here. As an oversimplification, the general population is stupid, which unfortunatly is our own fault. It is easier to sit and watch some polished talking head discuss a topic, and absorb their opinion, which may or may not be based on fact. We then go on and share our opinions with others, and because we can name drop, it adds validity to the argument. The problem is that these talking heads usually only bring up the information that supports the pre-formed opinion they already have. Doesnt matter if the facts don't support it. Actually, the facts just get in the way.

Very few people are willing to spend the time and energy to really research information about any given topic. Admittedly, it can be very difficult sometimes to find the information in a useable fashion. Some of the studies can be very difficult and technical reading, and generally it's not very interesting stuff. The problem is that talking heads only read the "conclusion" of the study, and do not question the methodology of the study to find out if the conclusion is supported by the data.

The problem with "data" is that it can be skewed to show just about anything you want it to. Some of the large studies (in medicine for example) are these huge longitudinal studies that look at so many variables, that you have a very difficult time pulling out what is real and what is just noise. Researchers then go "data mining" and using the "theory of causality" that I alluded to earlier, come up with these conclusions which may or may not really be there.

The only way to do a "good" study is to try and control all the variables except the one you wish to study, then change the environment around that one variable in measurable ways and see how the variable changes. The key however, and what is often forgotten, is that it has to be reproduceable. If the variable acts one way on one expirement, and differently when you try the test again, then something is obviously wrong, and the test needs to be re-evaluated for its ability to isolate that variable. Admittedly, this can be very difficult to do, especially when your trying to study a large, unwielding subject, but it can be done.

Getting back on topic, I personally have not read and evaluated every single study out there regarding global warming. I doubt anyone has. What I have read make some shaky conclusions based on not very reliable data. I also think many have just ignored data that went against their basic premise, 'cause it shot huge holes in their theory which they could not explain. Bad conclusions based on faulty evidnece leads to piss-poor decisions.

Erik

[germ]

I don't want to monopolize this thread, and sorry if it seems that I have. I'd like to hear some others opinions.

Erik

[Lady Di]

I don't want to monopolize this thread, and sorry if it seems that I have. I'd like to hear some others opinions.

Erik

Erik.. I have sent a link to this thread to some of my commie libreal friends because of what you and other have said. THANK YOU!!
I love my Marliners... I feel so not alone.

[BLACKDOG]

Well hell, this'll solve all our problems right here!   we get all the greenies and global warming supporters to stop "contributing"  we'd have a lot less problems!!

The thermal energy created by the kinetic energy of my fingers typing on a keyboard that provides resistance (potential energy) is certainly creating heat. Also the conversion of glucose to ATP thru the Kreb's cycle required to make the muscles in my fingers work will certainly equal at least 1-1.5 BTU, which in theory could raise the tempurature of 1cc of water by 1 degree celcius. This does not take into account the electrical energy that is created by the neurons in my brain while I'm thinking this crap up, nor the ohms (electrical resistance which creates heat) generated by the nervous impulses required to stimulate my muscle movements.

OK, I'm bored with this now. I'll just shut up.

Erik 

[abnormaltoy]

algore is on patrol again!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/29/192923.shtml?s=al&promo_code=3338-1

[TRHS1980]

"However, he said, the rest of the world looks to Canada for moral leadership, and that was why Thursday's announcement was so 'shocking'."

Wow... since when did any country, let alone the whole world, look to canada for leadership of any kind?? Also, the concept of "moral leadership" is nothing short of  . 

[germ]

  Gore is just

He's gotta keep his name in the media. I think his 15 minutes of fame are almost up.

Erik 

[abnormaltoy]

Gore is just

He's gotta keep his name in the media. I think his 15 minutes of fame are almost up.

Erik 

Doooood, he is sooo last Thursday!

I saw this over on Pirate...http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html

[fullthrottle]

i can't read this any more without clearing some things up. i have taken to many science classes and this is what i know it should all be the truth.
    first scientists have accurately mesred the earths temps. back as far as a hundred thousand years( back to when Antarctica began to freeze ), by using ice cores from Antarctica. it is done by measuring the % of different gases in the ice from a given 100year pried and applying them to the gas % records from the past 50 or so years in a computer model.
    for most of the earths time sens it was created there has been no ice on earth.  this is pr oven by physics how the earth moves in relation to the sun. there are three mane factors in this, the tilted axes of earth, the elliptical orbit of the earth around the sun and the oscillation the the orbit around the sun. from about 25000 years ago until today and continuing for about 5000 more years all three of theirs facthrs will be in there most extreme cold effect on the earth
( 10,000 years ago hapens to be the end of when the the amount of ice covering the earth was over come by the amount of CO2)
  from what we know now the earth being covert in ice cases two things first it reflects most of the sunlight that inters the earth atmosphere causing the earth to cool down but there will be leas plants on earth because they can't live in the cold so CO2 levels go up from volcano's mostly (well I'm talking volcano's they make more green house gases than everything else combind times2 even people) and the ice will all melt away which is what is happening now
 
y many scientists believe in global warming is because, how do iceages start it make sens to say they start when there is no ice on earth for a long time and the hole planet is covert in plants (planets remove CO2 for the atmosphere- no green house gases earth cools down and eventually you got anther iceage) maby, but some scientists worked out that it would take hundreds of millons of years for this to happen.
it is much more likely that it is because of the three physical attributes relating the sun and the earth.

may be i will post more when i get up tomaro

[abnormaltoy]

this is what i know it should all be the truth.

My first comment is...there is only one truth. Not what anyone thinks it should be or what anyone wants it to be. Science, because of it's nature, has shifted what it knew as the "truth" many times. Every time some new method of measurement or something new to measure comes along..."truth" is redefined.

first scientists have accurately mesred the earths temps. back as far as a hundred thousand years

To my knowledge, scientists are able to measure gases in the ice cores and make projections on what the temperature might have been. No one has accurately "measured" the temperature 100k years ago, because...no one was around then and certainly not with an accurate thermometer. 

in a computer model.

Computer models are similar to polls...you can make the outcome certain by controlling the input. Frame the data properly and you'll get the results you seek.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or bust your chops, but I couldn't even read most of your post. Do you do a lot of "texting"? I can't really tell which side of the argument you fall on.

Science is based on hypothesis, but unless you can accurately measure something in real time, all you can make is a (good?) guess. Take carbon dating, scientists measure the carbon-14 and estimate the age of an object based on the projected rate of decay. The problem with this, and other sciences IMHO, is that...this technology only came to existence about 60 years ago. Objects can only be factually dated that fall within that age range, because for all scientists know the rate of decay might be constant for 60 years...then accelerate or decelerate from the currently observed condition.

Again IMHO, the main push behind the panic that is "man caused global warming" is twofold:


1.   POWER

There is an immense amount of political power to be had by forcing change. It's evident in the rabid adherents to this theory. People making death threats against people who discredit the theory or it's proponents. Professors are getting fired and people are losing their jobs or the threat of job loss, simply because their studies suggest a different cause/outcome. If you don't believe the people are fanatics, go down to the local Starbucks (or anywhere any type of sprouts are routinely eaten) and announce that algore is a fraud and global warming is completely natural...see how you are received.


2.   PROFIT

Not only are there companies that are selling "carbon credits", there is a company that "seeds" the ocean with "iron filings" to feed the plankton (!) and selling "plankton credits" to offset your CO2 output. Then imagine what will happen when followers of this "cult" get into Congress and can start doling out heaping helpings of our tax dollars to fund every cockamamie idea out there...Oh, wait they're already in Congress. This "movement" is being pushed by hucksters, charlatans and con men. Look at some of the old "medical technology" and 'miracle cures" on file at the patent office: A helmet that is loaded with radium...meant to ease headaches, etc. It sound stupid now, but people ate it up in the old days.
By telling us what we can drive, what we can eat and how what we eat can be grown, what kind and how big a house we can have and, by not letting any opposing thoughts be entertained, what we can think...these people can control every aspect of our lives.