Author Topic: What's the Deal with Birfelds? (Read 7741 times)

BigMike · « **on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:11:40 PM »

I have a 3RZ, 510:1 Crawl Ratio, Locrite front Locker, and 35" Tires.

I am running STOCK Birfelds and I don't even carry a spare. Even with all of the torque I have (great engine, crazy Crawl Ratio) I have never been worried about breaking a Birfeld.

Now I know I don't go wheeling nearly as much as some do, but I have wheeled the Hammers three times, Rubicon twice, Panamint once, and Bald Mountain in the snow three times with 37s.

I realize that there are more and more rigs with 38", 40", 42" or larger tires these days. I understand how difficult it must be for those drivers to not break a Birfeld. But seriously, I have many friends with 35" and even 33" tires who can not stop breaking their axles!

Through all the years I've wheeled Marlin's truck, 11 years before I got mine, I have broke just two of his Birfelds. The first one I broke I remember was my fault and I learned from it, and the 2nd one I broke was a "Just try it and if it breaks then oh-well."

There is no science behind breaking a Birfeld. It's a very simple relation: The more you turn, the weaker the axle becomes.

I guess the reason I bring this up is because of recent times we have been having a hard time finding used Transfercases in large quantities. What's gonna happen when we can't find donor axles to replace our parts? Or for that matter, what's gonna happen when Bobby Long and other Manufactures can't modify stock axles because they too can not find them?

Of course it's easier to manufacture Birfelds than it is to manufacture complete transfercases, as many aftermarket Birfelds are available today, but come on, What's the Deal? I mean you guys are spending money on stronger aftermarket joints and yet you are still breaking them!

I guess it's fun for some people to break parts, CARNAGE!!!

but I was just curious how many Birfelds you have broke in the past year. $Beer Chug\'n$

Thanks for your vote

BigMike

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:14:28 PM »

Never ever, ever........ yet.

BigMike · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:18:59 PM »

Quote from: Rocksurfer on Mar 27, 2006, 09:14:28 PM

Never ever, ever........ yet.

Watch, I will probably break my first one at the Jamboree next month in front of a huge crowd just for starting this Poll

* BigMike Knocks on wood

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:20:08 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Mar 27, 2006, 09:18:59 PM

Watch, I will probably break my first one at the Jamboree next month in front of a huge crowd just for starting this Poll

* BigMike Knocks on wood

Definitely have jinxed yourself here.

cruzila · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:21:37 PM »

Two for me since August. One was backing up with the wheels turned. Done that three times now.
My very first two were in the snow. Over the 20 years I've been wheelin' Ive only done 5 total. Three backing two forward. One of the forwards was after I'd broke a rear hub so I was running on three wheels. The most recent forward was about 5 weeks ago in the snow. Wheels turned! My bumpstops got smashed and I have not fixed them yet.

cruzila · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:23:35 PM »

I guess I could clarify that 4 were in the cruiser and the most recent in the mini truck.

RHG · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:25:22 PM »

I havnt really wheeled my truck yet since I did the SAS so I cant vote. But I plan on having a spare birf with me when I do. But I imagine that running 38's it will happen pretty quick. When I break one then Im going to just order 30 splines. I dont see any reason to mess around with changing broken ones out. Just get the mother of all birfs and no need to worry bout them again.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:30:58 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Mar 27, 2006, 09:11:40 PM

I have a 3RZ, 510:1 Crawl Ratio, TruTrac front Locker, and 35" Tires.

What's gonna happen when we can't find donor axles to replace our parts? Or for that matter, what's gonna happen when Bobby Long and other Manufactures can't modify stock axles because they too can not find them?

Of course it's easier to manufacture Birfelds than it is to manufacture complete transfercases, as many aftermarket Birfelds are available today, but come on, What's the Deal? I mean you guys are spending money on stronger aftermarket joints and yet you are still breaking them!

First, a Truetrac is a limited-slip and NOT a locker

I ran a Truetrac for about 3 years, including two trips to Moab, without breaking a stock birfield. I have a 4.70 case with 4.88 R&P & 33 inch tires.

Second, Longfields 30-spline Super Set is manufactured from scratch, and there is no reason to purchase anything else.

I upgraded to Longfields 30-spline when I had the Aussie Locker installed in the front differential because I want to minimize the possibility of trail repairs as much as possible.

While in Moab last week, gotrocks broke two Profields (rock sitting beside the road & Dump Bump) and one stock replacement (backing up tugging another rig) without applying the throttle or being stupid. He had Longfields delivered and had no more problems while running Pritchett Canyon, Behind the Rocks & Golden Spike while being hard enough on them to break his front locker (not confirmed at this time). He as 37x14.50 tires, lockers front and rear with 5.29 R&P and dual cases with stock gears. He is a smart driver that likes to use the throtte every once in a while.

Longfields are the only solution to avoid a trail repair in my humble opinion!

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 27, 2006, 09:31:05 PM »

I've only broke 1 axle in the entire time I've wheeled, it was the stubby axle on my IFS 4Runner and I was hot-roddin' up a hill and knew better, but testosterone was ruling my mind. If I get in a bad spot the first thing I look at is tire position, I try to keep em as straight as possible to start and once moving will turn quickly. Sure I've had some

moments doing this but have had great success in this method. Plus I've never had a locker in the front of my trucks, only limited-slips except for my junkerai which I did lock the front. One day I'll take the plunge and lock the front but for now I haven't had an issue running them.

BigMike · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 12:00:40 AM »

Quote from: blackdiamond on Mar 27, 2006, 09:30:58 PM

First, a Truetrac is a limited-slip and NOT a locker

Whoops! I fixed that. I've got a Locrite NOT a Truetrac

Dang. I've gotten those two mixed up so many times. I've got the one which is like a Poor-mans Detroit, or a Detroit EZ Locker I think.

So if one wheel starts to spin it'll get about 2/3rds revolution before the other must also grab, and in that case, it acts just as a welded diff.

Quote

Second, Longfields 30-spline Super Set is manufactured from scratch, and there is no reason to purchase anything else.

Yup, that's why I said:

Quote

Of course it's easier to manufacture Birfelds than it is to manufacture complete transfercases, as many aftermarket Birfelds are available today

I should have specified that when I say "aftermarket Birfelds" I am referring to "manufactured Birfelds", the context I used at the beginning of that sentence.

I definitely agree that 30-splines are the way to go. And of course that kind of insurance is worth the money.

I see the results right now are 80% for the "Zero broken" mark. That's wwaayy different then what I was expecting. I keep hearing everyone talk about carring spares broken brif here and broken birf there.... I'll carry a spare someday... I need to just buy one and throw it in my box. I've just figured that with the crowd I usually wheel with, someone's gonna have a spare I can have, and I can send them another joint when I get back home. That's pretty lame, but in another sense, since I am *hoping* to run a FJ80 axle, I won't need any Hilux spares so its not like I'm in any hurry to get them

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 08:10:31 AM »

Mike i have 2 cases already for ya, and my L50

all for cores to you guys, hopefully i can round up another truck load by september

alwayzbroken · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 08:17:58 AM »

I have club members that will break three birfields in one weekend with 35" tires. They were running Profields and the earlier model Longfields.

Hyena · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 09:20:45 AM »

Broken 1 treated longfield so far, and that was enough. i decided to go cromoly. But i just read on Pirate that bobby won't be treating stock birfields anymore. He says that he is getting a lot of them, but there quality before they come in is a lot of the time useless. but other manufacturers are still treating them.

6.72:1 · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 09:30:31 AM »

I have broken one passenger side birf before.

Only one, but I knew better before I broke.

Ain't nothing like 4,000 RPM hill climbing in 4-lo then turning!

Actually, I was running 40s and the stock tie-rod failed.

Doh!

tj40ounce · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 09:45:56 AM »

Broke two stockers this year w/stock gearing, welded diff, and 35's. Just picked up some used Marfields. Hope they hold up after my dual cases go in.

gotrocks · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 09:53:30 AM »

well I broke 3 last week in 2 days. Ask Blackdiamond I wasn't even really being that hard on them. One was in reverse pulling a guy up a hill with my wheels STRAIGHT. My first one last week was pulling up on a single rock right besides a gravel road (not even close to the trail) testing my flex and BOOM broke that one then the other one was on dump bump with my wheels STAIGHT again. My 4th was a year ago crawling up some rocks in a gully. Didn't even know I broke it until we we snow wheeling and I only had 3 wheel drive. No loud pops or anything just didn't avhe any traction because the splines stripped. Haven't broken the shaft yet just the stars in ALL of them. So if y 30 splines break I know I'm screwed.

BigMike · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 10:15:55 AM »

Cool, thanks for the input guys

blackdiamond · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 11:39:49 AM »

Quote from: gotrocks on Mar 28, 2006, 09:53:30 AM

well I broke 3 last week in 2 days. Ask Blackdiamond I wasn't even really being that hard on them. One was in reverse pulling a guy up a hill with my wheels STRAIGHT. My first one last week was pulling up on a single rock right besides a gravel road (not even close to the trail) testing my flex and BOOM broke that one then the other one was on dump bump with my wheels STAIGHT again. My 4th was a year ago crawling up some rocks in a gully. Didn't even know I broke it until we we snow wheeling and I only had 3 wheel drive. No loud pops or anything just didn't avhe any traction because the splines stripped. Haven't broken the shaft yet just the stars in ALL of them. So if y 30 splines break I know I'm screwed.

gotrocks is correct that he wasn't abusing the front axles. His large tires, low gearing and the type of wheeling he enjoys proved to be way too much stress for the Profields.

The stars in the 30-spline Longfields are made of 300M material that is higher strength than the other parts...problem solved.

skid · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 11:54:26 AM »

1 passenger side with tire pointed straight, cleaned the splines off the inner axle too. Open diff, v8 and dual 2.28's. Something had to give, the tires were not moving.

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 03:01:22 PM »

Personally I would never pull backwards, metals tend to have load memory and when you continue to stress it one way then all of a sudden load it the other, kabluey. Especially a Dana 44, though we're talking birfields. I've seen more people blow an axle pulling backwards.

alwayzbroken · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 03:44:37 PM »

Quote from: Rocksurfer on Mar 28, 2006, 03:01:22 PM

Personally I would never pull backwards, metals tend to have load memory and when you continue to stress it one way then all of a sudden load it the other, kabluey. Especially a Dana 44, though we're talking birfields. I've seen more people blow an axle pulling backwards.

That is interesting. Never heard that. I'll keep that in mind.

BigMike · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 03:50:06 PM »

Gotta remember that when you are backing up while pulling something that there is more weight over the front tires, and also the springs are reversed in this manner, and the axle wrap works backwards (compressive) putting an even larger load on the front tires.

Hyena · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 05:36:48 PM »

I was backing up pulling yotaboy79 during MCR4 up a hill. the longfields held tight

Ferg · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 05:48:02 PM »

I've been wheelin' for better than 20 years, TLC w/SBC and current truck and have NEVER broken a birf. 7 times through the 'con, Dusy, Fordyce, HDR, TDS, Glamis, Big Bear, yadda yadda....

Not one.

reklund5 · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 07:14:03 PM »

I've personally NEVER broken a birfield in my truck. I witnessed a good friend snap a stock birf on an easy obstacle with 35" tires- right AFTER I went over that obstacle.

Being a Toyota Technician, I make my living working on cars. When I go out wheeling, I really don't want to spend my day working on my rig- or holding up a group while I replace parts. ( I usually wheel with Jeeps...so they take care of the broken parts and holding up the group

) That said, I ponied up and got a set of 30 spline Longs. I NEVER want to have to replace a birf on the trail. I think it sucks to replace them at work, on a lift, in a climate controlled shop! I bought them for piece of mind, and nothing else.

FYI- My rig has dual cases (2.28x2.28), F/R Detroit Lockers, and 37's

Ryan

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 07:31:56 PM »

I as of yet have not broken one on this build. Granted I have the 30 spline Bobby Longs, but have beat them pretty good pulling from front and back. Climbing straight up wallseven did a left front only climb cause I was too lazy to lock in both hubs.

I have busted at least three in an earlier truck. These were all stock with miles on them, also had welded diffs with 38's buried in the thick mud and still giving it hell. I had more problems with 4cyl gears than birf's.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 07:46:22 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Mar 28, 2006, 03:50:06 PM

Gotta remember that when you are backing up while pulling something that there is more weight over the front tires

Every time I've towed a jeep

outa the mud I've pulled em backward, and I like the way my truck sounds so I'm not easy on the skinny guy. No breaks just yet, but that's matching peg legs and 31s, so.............knocking on wood

Shamb · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 07:53:57 PM »

Only time i've broken a birf is when the tires where turned in or they were binded somehow and I landed on the front tires hard.

Hyena · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 08:31:28 PM »

Quote from: Shamb on Mar 28, 2006, 07:53:57 PM

Only time i've broken a birf is when the tires where turned in or they were binded somehow and I landed on the front tires hard.

Old Sluice

Shamb · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 28, 2006, 08:40:20 PM »

Thanks for pointing that out Brad.


	Poll How many Birfelds (stock or aftermarket) have you broke in the last year? Zero 27 (65.9%) One 4 (9.8%) Two 6 (14.6%) Three 2 (4.9%) Four 1 (2.4%) Five 0 (0%) Six 0 (0%) Seven 0 (0%) Eight 0 (0%) Nine of more 1 (2.4%) Total Members Voted: 41

Poll

How many Birfelds (stock or aftermarket) have you broke in the last year?

BigMike [OP]

BigMike [OP]

BigMike [OP]

BigMike [OP]

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