Author Topic: Toybrota's 22R build  (Read 26210 times)

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Toybrota

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #120 on: Aug 31, 2018, 11:07:58 PM »
It's been awhile, but this build is still very much alive and well.

Picked up an intake, exhuast and carb for $70!

This engine may go in my 2WD, or in my 85.



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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #121 on: Sep 08, 2018, 10:54:45 AM »
Hey Everyone, this engine build is gonna be finally moving along here in a couple weeks.
If you haven't seen, I bought an 85' 4WD single cab that I'm going to be transplanting this engine into.
In the coming weeks I'm getting the flywheel machined ($40) and the entire rotating assembly balanced. Do you think it's worth it to balance it for a 22R? It's $200 for the balance. I may go somewhere else.
And then the head will get machined, I'm wanting to assemble a short block first without the head.

And now, for a question.
I got my crank machined about 6 months ago, it's been stored in my bedroom on a steel shelf (obviously not on the bearing surfaces)
There was some very fine and very light flash corrosion on one of the mains, not deep at all.
I tried using WD40 on it, but it wouldn't come off.
Should I get the crank polished again?

To prevent further corrosion, what is a good way to prevent this? I heavily coated the main and rod bearings surfaces with oil, and rapped a strip of paper towel around it to make it stick. I also coated the cylinder bores with a thin film of oil.

My house doesn't have a swamp cooler so the air conditioning is pretty dry.

And to leave you with a picture of my new truck



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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #122 on: Sep 09, 2018, 04:15:06 AM »
Hi T,

On the crankshaft…  What is probably on the crank journals is micro corrosion, micro inches of oxidation. I would take 600 grit emery cloth and lightly work a strip the width of the journal back and forth.  The corrosion will be probably be removed.  I’d clean it really well with solvent, then wipe it with a very thin coat of motor oil or WD-40.

If the emery cloth does not remove the corrosion completely I’d let my machine shop look at, and they’d most likely recommend re-polishing it.

On the balancing question….  Todd at engnbldr said he did not recommend having my rebuild balanced.  Also, 22RE Performance's Stage 2 engine appears to NOT be balanced.  I have not confirmed that with Jim.

When I asked my machine shop, of course, they recommended a balancing.  I had them check and balance the rods, crank, flywheel with pressure plate.  Unless you are building a high revving engine -  6,000 or higher, I doubt that balancing it will make any difference in performance or longevity on our little inline 4 cylinder engines.  My machine only charged $95.00, so I decided to have them do it because I was really curious what they would find.

On the flywheel “machined”…I assume the contact surfaces will be machined flat and smooth and also make sure that the crankshaft mating surface is true and perpendicular to the crankshaft.  I’d consider cost and turn-around time.  That is a good idea if you installing a new clutch disc and pressure plate, AND the shop is NOT charging very much.  You can buy a brand LUK flywheel from RockAuto for $37.00.  On all 3 of my trucks that I did a clutch job - to the flywheel, I simply took 10 or 15 minutes with some 400 emery cloth and a flat block and sanded the surface where the clutch disc mates to get any glaze or micro-grooving, then finished sanding it with 600 grit.  Unless the surface is heat stressed or has surface cracks or deep grooves (which may need to be replaced), the machining would insure that the contact surface is flat and smooth.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.




« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2018, 05:02:39 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #123 on: Sep 10, 2018, 05:51:51 PM »
Hi T,

On the crankshaft…  What is probably on the crank journals is micro corrosion, micro inches of oxidation. I would take 600 grit emery cloth and lightly work a strip the width of the journal back and forth.  The corrosion will be probably be removed.  I’d clean it really well with solvent, then wipe it with a very thin coat of motor oil or WD-40.

If the emery cloth does not remove the corrosion completely I’d let my machine shop look at, and they’d most likely recommend re-polishing it.

On the balancing question….  Todd at engnbldr said he did not recommend having my rebuild balanced.  Also, 22RE Performance's Stage 2 engine appears to NOT be balanced.  I have not confirmed that with Jim.

When I asked my machine shop, of course, they recommended a balancing.  I had them check and balance the rods, crank, flywheel with pressure plate.  Unless you are building a high revving engine -  6,000 or higher, I doubt that balancing it will make any difference in performance or longevity on our little inline 4 cylinder engines.  My machine only charged $95.00, so I decided to have them do it because I was really curious what they would find.

On the flywheel “machined”…I assume the contact surfaces will be machined flat and smooth and also make sure that the crankshaft mating surface is true and perpendicular to the crankshaft.  I’d consider cost and turn-around time.  That is a good idea if you installing a new clutch disc and pressure plate, AND the shop is NOT charging very much.  You can buy a brand LUK flywheel from RockAuto for $37.00.  On all 3 of my trucks that I did a clutch job - to the flywheel, I simply took 10 or 15 minutes with some 400 emery cloth and a flat block and sanded the surface where the clutch disc mates to get any glaze or micro-grooving, then finished sanding it with 600 grit.  Unless the surface is heat stressed or has surface cracks or deep grooves (which may need to be replaced), the machining would insure that the contact surface is flat and smooth.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.
Hey Gnarls, thanks for the input on the crank. Below is a picture of it, it's so faint it doesn't even want to show up on photo. I bought 2000 grit sandpaper, I figured that way I don't cut too deep.
However, I may just have it polished again. Not sure. What do you think? I'm going to plastigauge anyways, so I will check that area specifically.
I also have an LCE repair sleeve for the crankshaft, do you think these are worth running? I was gonna see if the machine shop would do it for me.

And for the clutch, I loved the clutch disc you recommended back when I did the leaking input shaft seal on my truck. Does Rock Auto sell a complete clutch kit that you'd recommend?

Since the motor is out, I will be replacing the input shaft seal and bearing retainer gasket.

I also went ahead and ordered a TON of parts, from three different vendors.

From "Toyota Parts deal" I got OEM Toyota head bolts, as well as the seal and gasket for the transmission. They have tons of NOS parts, including brand new complete frames...

From LCE I got a timing cover bolt kit, and my mains and rod bearings.

I also ordered a AISIN water pump from Yotashop, good prices from them.



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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #124 on: Sep 11, 2018, 05:56:56 AM »
Hey T,

600 grit would not have been able to remove too much metal.  Based on the photo, it looks like there is still some surface micro corrosion or pitting.  The journals should be a mirror chrome-like finish. If 600 grit does not remove it, I’d have the shop re-polish it.  I believe H8PVMNT has done quit a bit of work on refreshing crankshafts, he would have some good input.

On seal sleeves… I’ve read mixed reviews on their use.  If the crankshaft has deep grooving on the rear crank where the seal rides, and you don’t want to replace the crankshaft, then the sleeve is an option.

So the “input shaft”… are you talking about the transmission input shaft?  If you haven’t already read it, check out my posts in the transmission section on the input shaft seal issue that I went through.

On the clutch kit, is the clutch disc contaminated with oil?  If not, I don’t believe you have enough miles on it to need replacing.  If you want to replace it with a kit, I’d go with M-Pact, LUK, Beck Arnley, or Aisin.  Although they are popular, I would NOT buy a heavy duty kit – I’ve never smoked a stock style clutch in any of my trucks.  Be sure to replace the pilot bearing.  Before installing the tranny into the bell housing, and before you install the new pilot bearing, be sure you slip the pilot bearing over the end of the input shaft to make sure it slips on the tip of the shaft easily.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1985,pickup,2.4l+l4,1277300,transmission-manual,clutch+kit,1993


On installing the bolts for the water pump and timing cover, unless you know for sure, be sure to measure the depth of each bolt hole and note the location for each bolt, and know which ones also will hold a bracket when finally installed.

I may have missed something.   Please keep us posted on your progress.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2018, 06:11:32 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #125 on: Sep 11, 2018, 09:09:36 AM »
Hey T,

600 grit would not have been able to remove too much metal.  Based on the photo, it looks like there is still some surface micro corrosion or pitting.  The journals should be a mirror chrome-like finish. If 600 grit does not remove it, I’d have the shop re-polish it.  I believe H8PVMNT has done quit a bit of work on refreshing crankshafts, he would have some good input.

On seal sleeves… I’ve read mixed reviews on their use.  If the crankshaft has deep grooving on the rear crank where the seal rides, and you don’t want to replace the crankshaft, then the sleeve is an option.

So the “input shaft”… are you talking about the transmission input shaft?  If you haven’t already read it, check out my posts in the transmission section on the input shaft seal issue that I went through.

On the clutch kit, is the clutch disc contaminated with oil?  If not, I don’t believe you have enough miles on it to need replacing.  If you want to replace it with a kit, I’d go with M-Pact, LUK, Beck Arnley, or Aisin.  Although they are popular, I would NOT buy a heavy duty kit – I’ve never smoked a stock style clutch in any of my trucks.  Be sure to replace the pilot bearing.  Before installing the tranny into the bell housing, and before you install the new pilot bearing, be sure you slip the pilot bearing over the end of the input shaft to make sure it slips on the tip of the shaft easily.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1985,pickup,2.4l+l4,1277300,transmission-manual,clutch+kit,1993


On installing the bolts for the water pump and timing cover, unless you know for sure, be sure to measure the depth of each bolt hole and note the location for each bolt, and know which ones also will hold a bracket when finally installed.

I may have missed something.   Please keep us posted on your progress.

Gnarls.
I'm taking the crank to get it polished today, I figured it's $40 so why not have the pros do it? I'm also taking my flywheel to be resurfaced today.
As far as the input shaft seal, I do mean on the transmission. This transmission is brand new, but I'm replacing the input shaft seal and gasket anyways. Good insurance after all.
In regards to the clutch, I currently have no idea what it's condition is. It grabs great, the truck still drives (With bad knocking) but I figured I might as well replace it when I'm in there. I'll try and source an Aisin pressure plate, but I'll do that Rock Auto clutch disc that you recommended last time since it works so good.

The crank is pretty grooved, hence my desire to install a sleeve. I'm going to see if the machine shop will install it for me, as they'd get it straight.


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #126 on: Sep 11, 2018, 09:28:27 PM »
Update from today ~
Took the crank and flywheel to a machine shop today, "Hunter Machine" in West valley, Utah.

They looked at the crank and said that it was in no way going to need a Polish, great new for me.
He said the corrosion was barely even anything, and to just put it in as is.
He also installed the seal saver I brought in, for free.

Dropped the flywheel off for a $45 resurfacing.

As far as the clutch is concerned, I looked at Rock Auto and LCE, LCE sells a clutch kit for $110 from Exedy. I decided on that one, comes with new bearings.

Block gets Assembly on Saturday, picking up a ring expander and ring compressor tool.
Plastigauge checking ever journal of course.
Piston rings already gapped. Seating the thrust washer seems very tedious, but I have an idea from some videos I've watched. Can't wait to get the motor pulled, most likely before October!

Also, can anyone recommended a good break in procedure? I'm using the original cam. I am going to follow cam break in procedures anyways, to help seat the piston rings. After that I figured I'd just drive it, very carefully varying RPM for the first 500 miles with no freeways. Anyone see this as a problem? After the initial valve adjustment, it'll get valve checks every oil change along with head bolt re-torque every few.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #127 on: Sep 12, 2018, 05:29:30 AM »
Update from today ~
Took the crank and flywheel to a machine shop today, "Hunter Machine" in West valley, Utah.

They looked at the crank and said that it was in no way going to need a Polish, great new for me.
He said the corrosion was barely even anything, and to just put it in as is.
He also installed the seal saver I brought in, for free.

Dropped the flywheel off for a $45 resurfacing.

As far as the clutch is concerned, I looked at Rock Auto and LCE, LCE sells a clutch kit for $110 from Exedy. I decided on that one, comes with new bearings. 

Block gets Assembly on Saturday, picking up a ring expander and ring compressor tool.
Plastigauge checking ever journal of course.
Piston rings already gapped. Seating the thrust washer seems very tedious, but I have an idea from some videos I've watched. Can't wait to get the motor pulled, most likely before October!

Also, can anyone recommended a good break in procedure? I'm using the original cam. I am going to follow cam break in procedures anyways, to help seat the piston rings. After that I figured I'd just drive it, very carefully varying RPM for the first 500 miles with no freeways. Anyone see this as a problem? After the initial valve adjustment, it'll get valve checks every oil change along with head bolt re-torque every few.

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Hi T,

Glad you don't have to polish the crank... saves some money.  It's hard visualize looking at a 2D low res photo.  Hunter publishes their prices... nice.

Break in... I've had many conversations about engine "break-in procedures" for a rebuild.  I'd go with 22RE Performance's version.  The main thing is not to "baby" the engine during the first 50 to 100 miles.  I'm curious what procedure Hunter will recommend.

Who's pistons and rings did you end up with?

What is your thinking on not installing a new camshaft?

The clutch kit... I would replace the disc, pressure plate, pilot bearing, and throw-out bearing.  I no experience with Exedy.  Exedy is a USA subsidiary of a Japanese company... for what that's worth.

It is typically recommened to change break-in oil at about 500 miles.  I would not wait for oil change to check valve lash. You are going to set valve lash cold.  After firing engine, after 100 miles, I'd re-check valve lash.

If you are not installing new cam, no need to do a "cam" break in, but can't hurt to keep oil pressure up for 20 minutes at fast idle.

Ring gap... so you checked the gap after the block has been machined, what has been done to the block?

Did you decide to go with balancing or not?

Thank you for keeping us updated.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #128 on: Sep 12, 2018, 06:34:41 AM »
Hi T,

Glad you don't have to polish the crank... saves some money.  It's hard visualize looking at a 2D low res photo.  Hunter publishes their prices... nice.

Break in... I've had many conversations about engine "break-in procedures" for a rebuild.  I'd go with 22RE Performance's version.  The main thing is not to "baby" the engine during the first 50 to 100 miles.  I'm curious what procedure Hunter will recommend.

Who's pistons and rings did you end up with?

What is your thinking on not installing a new camshaft?

The clutch kit... I would replace the disc, pressure plate, pilot bearing, and throw-out bearing.  I no experience with Exedy.  Exedy is a USA subsidiary of a Japanese company... for what that's worth.

It is typically recommened to change break-in oil at about 500 miles.  I would not wait for oil change to check valve lash. You are going to set valve lash cold.  After firing engine, after 100 miles, I'd re-check valve lash.

If you are not installing new cam, no need to do a "cam" break in, but can't hurt to keep oil pressure up for 20 minutes at fast idle.

Ring gap... so you checked the gap after the block has been machined, what has been done to the block?

Did you decide to go with balancing or not?

Thank you for keeping us updated.

Gnarls.
Rings, I'm using Hastings. Block is bored 0.020" over and is matched with the correct pistons.
Ring gap was sitting a little over 0.013" on all cylinders, minimum I calculated to be 0.012 (using LCE guide lines). Pistons are Hypereutectic from LCE.

Reason for keeping the cam, well it's a stock truck that will never see tires larger than 29's.
The stock Cam profile works for me, so why spend needless money?

Hunter recommended that I don't balance the crank and everything else, so I'm not going to.

For the break in, it'll get valve adjustments as soon as it's done running and getting to opperating temp. I plan not to baby it, I'm going to stay away from anything over 3500 RPM for the first little bit. Engine break-in seems to revolve around varying engine speed, so thats what it'll get.
Clutch kit will come with everything, so everything is getting replaced.

The only thing I'm in the dark on, is the emissions stuff. I got an early 22R exhaust manifold that'll go onto the down tube.
Any experience cleaning the EGR valve? I don't want this engine getting crap left over from the previous engine(s)
« Last Edit: Sep 12, 2018, 06:44:27 AM by Toybrota »

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #129 on: Sep 13, 2018, 08:00:35 AM »
Flywheel got machined, it looks super nice. I'll take some pictures later.

I decided that I was gonna do a complete de-smog while I'm installing the motor, because it's just simple block off plates.
Plus, where I live now I don't have to do emissions.
I've heard they run better like this, and it's way less complex.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #130 on: Sep 13, 2018, 08:45:48 AM »
Rings, I'm using Hastings. Block is bored 0.020" over and is matched with the correct pistons.
Ring gap was sitting a little over 0.013" on all cylinders, minimum I calculated to be 0.012 (using LCE guide lines). Pistons are Hypereutectic from LCE.

Reason for keeping the cam, well it's a stock truck that will never see tires larger than 29's.
The stock Cam profile works for me, so why spend needless money?

Hunter recommended that I don't balance the crank and everything else, so I'm not going to.

For the break in, it'll get valve adjustments as soon as it's done running and getting to opperating temp. I plan not to baby it, I'm going to stay away from anything over 3500 RPM for the first little bit. Engine break-in seems to revolve around varying engine speed, so thats what it'll get.
Clutch kit will come with everything, so everything is getting replaced.

The only thing I'm in the dark on, is the emissions stuff. I got an early 22R exhaust manifold that'll go onto the down tube.
Any experience cleaning the EGR valve? I don't want this engine getting crap left over from the previous engine(s)


On my 85 22R, I left the EGR and smog stuff installed. I did clean every thing when did a head job.  There should be lots of information on removing that stuff.  The EGR tube and plate does get carbon'd up pretty badly in high mileage engines.  Mine was partially plugged up.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #131 on: Sep 13, 2018, 06:07:06 PM »
On my 85 22R, I left the EGR and smog stuff installed. I did clean every thing when did a head job.  There should be lots of information on removing that stuff.  The EGR tube and plate does get carbon'd up pretty badly in high mileage engines.  Mine was partially plugged up.

Gnarls.
I'm planning on just removing the emissions garbage.
A closer look at the rocker arms shows that I should buy a new set of rockers, looks like I'll do the cam too while I'm at it. Not sure what cam I should go for, probably something that lowers the torque curve.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #132 on: Sep 17, 2018, 11:17:41 AM »
Wasn't a good weekend for trying to assemble!

The main bearings I ordered from LCE cane damaged, the way the manufacturers package engine bearings is just dumb and doesn't make sense. Oh well, they are gonna exchange the bearings for free, so I'm happy.

Since I wasn't able to get the crank in, I plastigauge checked the rod bearings and they are all within spec as they should be.

As far as the rods go, I never marked them when I tore this motor down initially. Is this going to pose a problem? I have all the piston and rods marked now from how I checked them, So each one goes in the cylinder that it was checked on.

And also, what is the deal with the marks on these rod bearings? This is JUST from Plastigauge checking them, is this just a coating that is meant to come off?

Pictures are all over the place, the mobile app sucks...

I may order new rod bearings because of this coating that got removed, too over kill?
Or as long as the shiny portion of the bearing isn't scratched, I'm good to go? I did the "Fingernail" test to see if my nail got hung up anywhere, it doesn't but removed the grey Graphite (I'm assuming) coating.

I also included a picture on how I'm plastigauge checking the rods.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #133 on: Sep 17, 2018, 08:36:31 PM »
Jesus, hang up after hang up!

Tonight I figured for the hell of it, I'd check to see if there was any play from the connecting rod bushings with these new pistons. All was fine, except for one rod.

Thing is, I PAID the machine shop to check over the bushings, and they charged me for it. But clearly it wasn't done properly. Great!

So tomorrow, I'm gonna take the piston and rod assemblies (minus the rings, I'll remove them) to the shop I got the work done. Luckily, I still have the tag that was attached to my stuff when I was there.

This is super frustrating, I just want to get this engine together.

On a lighter note, LCE agreed to exchange my rod bearings for a different, hopefully less destroyed set. So, all isn't terrible. Hopefully I can assemble the block next weekend, bearings should be here by then and the rods should be done too.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #134 on: Sep 20, 2018, 10:23:18 AM »
Yet another update. Rods are getting new bushings.

The machine shop did check the rods, they were just on the high side of the service limit. Since I want this to last, I am getting them replaced. I get free parts, which is nice.
Paying about $80 to get new bushings.

Also dropped another $125 for 22RE Performance reground rockers.
Shipping off the bad bearings back to LCE today, and hopefully they get a new set sent my way as well.


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #135 on: Sep 21, 2018, 08:15:22 AM »
....
Thing is, I PAID the machine shop to check over the bushings, and they charged me for it. But clearly it wasn't done properly. Great!


The issue of improper machine work, and what comes out of the machine shop may be way too often a problem.  I trusted my machine shop, but I did not verify with own measurements the accuracy of their machine work.  This *may* be is the issue now with my rebuild.

Any future machine shop I have done, I will ask for proof of the machine work and a detailed measurement of results report, and then I will triple check the work and all measurements with own gauges.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #136 on: Sep 21, 2018, 08:50:47 AM »
The issue of improper machine work, and what comes out of the machine shop may be way too often a problem.  I trusted my machine shop, but I did not verify with own measurements the accuracy of their machine work.  This *may* be is the issue now with my rebuild.

Any future machine shop I have done, I will ask for proof of the machine work and a detailed measurement of results report, and then I will triple check the work and all measurements with own gauges.

Gnarls.
What is the issue with your rebuild?

I am almost convinced that a rebuilt 22R will never see the mileage that it did when it left the factory.

I have been thinking though...

On ToyotaPartsDeal you can buy a BRAND new 22R block, for $2300. New old stock.
You can also buy brand new never complete frames on there too... But that's for a different story.

Why are rebuilt 22R's so unreliable? Sounds like most issues are with machine shops.
To break away from that, spend the extra bucks and get brand new never machined TOYOTA parts.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #137 on: Sep 22, 2018, 09:10:57 AM »
What is the issue with your rebuild?




My issue is ..... after over 10,000 miles since the complete rebuild of this engine it is burning about 1 quart of oil approximately every 600 miles.  There is no smoke and no detectable blow-by... .just oil consumption.  The power is good.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #138 on: Sep 22, 2018, 09:25:24 AM »

I am almost convinced that a rebuilt 22R will never see the mileage that it did when it left the factory.



I have read 100s of posts in multiple Toyota sites over the last 20 years discussing simple tuning problems to major failures on early Toyota engine rebuilds.  The problems stem from the backyard DIYer that claims to do a rebuild in 2 hours to the purchased short blocks, long blocks, and turn-keys.  From all kinds sources and parts.

I believe it takes WAY more knowledge, experience, selection of the right parts and machine work starting with understanding the desired application for the engine, and the age and condition of the block.

I also believe that there are a few Toyota engine builders out there that take a great deal of pride in what they offer in parts and rebuilds, and have a very reputable history of providing very high quality products.

I would bet that a Stage 1 or Stage 2 engine from 22RE Performance will easily go as many miles or more miles as any stock factory engine.

When it comes to the necessary machine work, you'd better be VERY sure you know exactly what is being done and what ALL of the specs and measurements are, and what should be done to insure the very best rebuild (sonic tested and magnafluxed, rings and RA matched, for example) --- before you start the assembly.

With the poor quality of some after market parts for our early Toyota trucks, one has to be extremely careful to choose the best quality available.  The difference is cost typically ends up completely irrelevant to the outcome and result of the rebuild.  Saving a couple hundred dollars on $3000 or $4000 rebuild when it fails and you have rebuild again, that "savings" now becomes a huge cost!!

That's just my opinion - it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2018, 09:34:56 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #139 on: Sep 24, 2018, 08:48:59 PM »
My issue is ..... after over 10,000 miles since the complete rebuild of this engine it is burning about 1 quart of oil approximately every 600 miles.  There is no smoke and no detectable blow-by... .just oil consumption.  The power is good.

Gnarls.
That oil consumption is strange, I'd be interested to see what that tear down would look like...

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #140 on: Sep 24, 2018, 08:50:19 PM »
I have read 100s of posts in multiple Toyota sites over the last 20 years discussing simple tuning problems to major failures on early Toyota engine rebuilds.  The problems stem from the backyard DIYer that claims to do a rebuild in 2 hours to the purchased short blocks, long blocks, and turn-keys.  From all kinds sources and parts.

I believe it takes WAY more knowledge, experience, selection of the right parts and machine work starting with understanding the desired application for the engine, and the age and condition of the block.

I also believe that there are a few Toyota engine builders out there that take a great deal of pride in what they offer in parts and rebuilds, and have a very reputable history of providing very high quality products.

I would bet that a Stage 1 or Stage 2 engine from 22RE Performance will easily go as many miles or more miles as any stock factory engine.

When it comes to the necessary machine work, you'd better be VERY sure you know exactly what is being done and what ALL of the specs and measurements are, and what should be done to insure the very best rebuild (sonic tested and magnafluxed, rings and RA matched, for example) --- before you start the assembly.

With the poor quality of some after market parts for our early Toyota trucks, one has to be extremely careful to choose the best quality available.  The difference is cost typically ends up completely irrelevant to the outcome and result of the rebuild.  Saving a couple hundred dollars on $3000 or $4000 rebuild when it fails and you have rebuild again, that "savings" now becomes a huge cost!!

That's just my opinion - it may be worthless.

Gnarls.
Thanks for app the chiming in on my posts!
I couldn't agree more with what you've said, that's why I have been checking everything and making sure everything is done properly...


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #141 on: Sep 24, 2018, 09:02:37 PM »
Here's where I am sitting currently with the build.

Today, I installed the crank. I plastigauged the journals, and everything is looking as it should for the oil clearance (see pic below)

LCE did a fantastic job of making it right, even if they weren't in the wrong. New bearings are perfect.

I made sure to get the large piece of plastigauge out that sits in the lower portion of the main bearings.
As far as the rest of the plastigauge goes, I didn't bother removing it from the bearings since it's oil soluble and dissolves with oil.

I initially had an issue getting the crank to turn after all the caps had been torqued down, I think this was due to the plastigauge. The crank would turn and stop, after a few rotations it spins freely without any hang ups. Again, I think this was the plastigauge. To be sure, I pulled all the caps off to verify that the plastigauge didn't gouge the bearing surfaces, everything looks great. Since Plastigauge is basically a wax filiment, it's hard to imagine it doing any harm.

Haven't checked crank thrust movement yet, I went to harbor freight and picked up a dial indicator and magnetic base so I could accurately see what the thrust is. That's for tomorrow.
Tomorrow I plan to install the pistons on to my Freshly machined rods. Which received new bushings set to the proper clearance.
I'm sure I'll send some of those wrist pin clips across the room, might have to put safety glasses on the dog...

I also anticipate that I'll be installing the timing components and cover. Now for the real question, would anyone recommended that I put any RTV if at all on the gaskets? When I did this before, I put a thin layer on both sides of the gasket for extra protection. Should I just do gaskets and nothing else? I've heard good things about Gasgacinch...

Along with that Freshly painted timing cover, goes my AISIN water and oil pump.
Purchased LCE's timing cover bolt set (with measurements so I put the right bolts in the right holes)
I also bought an intake manifold stud kit, figured for the price might as well prevent any possibility of the holes on the head getting stripped.

My rockers from 22RE performance should be here this week. Next week the head gets done.

Super excited to continue on with this!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #142 on: Sep 24, 2018, 09:03:15 PM »
Some pictures.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #143 on: Sep 25, 2018, 05:50:55 AM »
It's nice to follow your progress and taking your time to do it the right way while you document it here.  :beerchug:

I realize there are different opinions on what is "right".  :gap:

I'm puzzled why you left the plastigauge on the crank rather than cleaning off?  :dunno:

Gnarls :spin:
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2018, 05:59:11 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #144 on: Sep 25, 2018, 04:24:23 PM »
It's nice to follow your progress and taking your time to do it the right way while you document it here.  :beerchug:

I realize there are different opinions on what is "right".  :gap:

I'm puzzled why you left the plastigauge on the crank rather than cleaning off?  :dunno:

Gnarls :spin:
I cleaned the plastigauge off the crank the best I could, just not on the bearing journals. Plastigauge disintegrates with oil.

From Plastigauges website:

"Ideally you should remove the PLASTIGAUGE stripe with a clean oily cloth or industrial de-greasing solvent, but users may be assured that any PLASTIGAUGE left behind is oil soluble and cannot harm the engine in any way."

 



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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #145 on: Sep 25, 2018, 07:37:25 PM »
Here's where I am sitting with the build.

Installed the Pistons onto the rods, and then into the block. I checked for thrust using my handy dandy Chineseium dial indicator.
About 0.003" of thrust. Perfect.

All oil clearances are consistent.

Additionally, it's a strange feeling putting pistons in the oven... Baked to perfection and marinaded with assembly lube. Gordon Ramsey would be proud.



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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #146 on: Sep 25, 2018, 10:06:04 PM »
Haha what room of the house are you building it in?  I like the kitchen personally :)
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #147 on: Sep 26, 2018, 08:21:56 PM »
Haha what room of the house are you building it in?  I like the kitchen personally :)
Kitchen! The block resided in my upstairs room for awhile, talk about heavy. Engines make the best room Decor.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #148 on: Oct 01, 2018, 02:56:36 PM »
Here's where I am at right now!

Over this weekend, I installed the timing components and the cover.

I measured all bolts from the LCE kit to ensure they went in the proper holes. I still had bolts that didn't fit, even following their directions. No biggie, I've got a box full of bolts from this motor.

This is a factory dual row motor, it's a 1981 (Early main bearing Tang type)

I put thread locker on every single bolt, and ensured they got torqued to the proper specs.

For the gaskets, I am using the OEM Toyota gaskets.
I smeared a thin layer of "The Right Stuff" on both sides of the gaskets, not too much so it plugs anything. I know, people don't like this brand. But, I've had nothing but great luck with it so it is what I will continue to use.

I was going to install the water pump the entire way, gaskets and everything. Except, I broke off a stud into the timing cover. Tried slotting it, didn't work.
So, I'll just drill out the hole to the next bolt size, which would be an M9.
This likely means I'll have to enlarge the hole on the water pump too, no biggie.
Honestly, I probably wouldn't even need that bolt. I doubt it would leak without it.
So, I'll drill and tap that before it goes into the truck.

Since I didn't install the water pump fully with the gaskets, I still torqued it down (Along with the oil pump) to make sure the gaskets and sealer got a good bond to the block. I'll remove these items when I install them for the last time.
I just wanted to make sure that any bolts for the water and oil pump that go into the block, got torqued down as well. So that the timing cover has even pressure on all the gasket surfaces.

Timing gear is zip tied to make sure it doesn't loose where it's at. Made sure the crank is at TDC on cylinder number 1.

Now, for some interesting wear. The oil pump drive spline has a severe wear pattern on the teeth, so much so that I'm worried it will skip under load.
I'll just replace it, no harm in doing that.

For both heater pipes, I wire wheeled and cleaned them up really nice.
Tons of pictures below!

Yep, those are Toyota branded Head bolts. Cheaper than LCE and theirs.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #149 on: Oct 01, 2018, 04:07:05 PM »
Alrighty, so I found out the tap/drill bit that I need for this repair.
Since the bolt that broke is a M8X1.25, I'm going to oversize it to a M9X1.25

I'll need a 7.80 MM drill bit, According to my tap and die chart, that and a M9X1.25 tap.

Unfortunately, M9 bolts and drill bits are hard to find. Everything will have to be ordered online.



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