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I understand what you are trying to achieve, I just don't see how a few more ft lbs of torque and a couple of ponies at a lower rpm are going to overcome the 11-12% under gearing you have now. The .020 bore and O/S head will help, as will the header, but I have yet to see any engine mods to a 22r replace the performance lost when being under geared.With the engine mods you have done/plan to do and 4.56 gears you could likely tow the trailer you are looking at w/pleasurable results, but with your current tires and 4.10's, I don't think you will find it all that enjoyable.The gains of the 261 from 2800rpm's up are nice, don't care for the drop in numbers between 23-2800rpm's though, maybe along w/better intake/exhaust set-up allows it revs faster so that the lower numbers don't effect the performance. Do you have the numbers for the stock cam and DT header?
I ran the same motor, everything stock with 31's and 4.10 gears and 4.56 gears. 4.56's gears made going up long hills easier and I was able to achieve a higher speed faster. Off road it was better as well.
R&P gears change nothing in throttle response. Throttle response is the time taken from the moment the throttle body is opened to the moment the engine responds, makes torque. Lower gears also don't move the powerband up or down, they just multiply the torque transmitted to the ground, to the tires. The torque number and torque-band applied to the r&p by the engine is the same no matter what gears you have. You will feel a bigger increase in power with lower gears, more acceleration, more pulling power while towing, throughout the whole powerband because of the multiplication of torque to the wheels. It takes a big increase in horsepower and torque to overcome the under-gearing over stock. I think with your setup gnarlly4x, it will pull about the same as stock maybe a little bit more in the lower end, less on the top end because of the characteristics of the cam, and the under-gearing vs torque increase will pretty much match stock performance with stock tires/gears from what I have seen in the past, I've enjoyed reading about your build and I'm anxious to hear your opinion on the outcome and dyno numbers.
R&P gears change nothing in throttle response. Throttle response is the time taken from the moment the throttle body is opened to the moment the engine responds, makes torque.
OK... I think I see what you mean...My engine rebuild...4.10 R&P, in 1st gear, just idling at 900 RPM, my torque number 69.4 foot lbs, my speed is 5.1 MPH I punch the throttle to 1900 RPM, my torque is 112, my speed is 11 MPH4.88 R&P, in 1st gear, just idling at 900 RPM, my torque number 69.4 foot lbs, my speed is 4.3 MPHI punch the throttle to 1900 RPM, my torque is 112, my speed is 9 MPHSo my throttle response is the same, but my actual speed is higher with the 4.10 gears at 1900 RPMs??Gnarls.
If you absolutely want physics and mathematics and engineering explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbvATt89Ico
Ok, so if I took my truck with a rebuilt stock 22RE, stock 4.10 gears, stock 28” tires and test it on a chassis dyno. Then take the same truck only with my rebuilt engine with mods, with 4.10 gears, 31” tires and test it on a chassis dyno, the dyno results would show about the same torque and HP numbers to the rear wheels?If I took my stock truck with stock engine, tires, but swapped the R&P to 4.56, the chassis dyno will show higher torque and higher HP numbers?If I took my stock truck with stock engine, tires, but swapped the R&P to 4.88s, will the chassis dyno show more torque and HP then the 4.56s? ... even though in 5th gear I'd running at 4,000 RPMs?Gnarls.
Depending on the dyno and what it takes into account, no, if you take a bone stock toyota, put it on the dyno for a baseline, then put in 4.88 gears and re-test, the power and torque number will be different yes. And if you put on 31'' instead of 28'' the numbers will be different too. "Higher ratio gears will give you lower chassis dyno numbers for a strange, but logical reason. In essence, the DynoJet calculates hp based on the time it takes to spin up the 2800lb roller assembly. It's basically work divided by time and rpm. Think about this: If you car is at idle in neutral and you stab the throttle, it will take time to accelerate to redline...let's say 1.1 seconds. Now let's say it takes 8.2 seconds for your car to accelerate the DynoJet from low speed to top speed with 3.23 gears and 7.3 seconds with 3.73 gears. Dyno printout says 355 rwhp with 3.23 gears and 346 rwhp with 3.73 gears...why?Think aabout this: In the 8.2 seconds it takes to spin the rollers with 3.23 gears, it would still take the motor about 1.1 seconds to overcome its own inertia (idle to redline). There's about 13.4% of the work used just to accelerate the motor itself. With 3.73 gears, the time to reach redline decreases to 7.3 seconds. Divide the 1.1 seconds into the 7.3 seconds and you will see that overcoming the internal engine inertia costs 15.1% of the work with 3.73 gears. There is less hp available during this time period to spin the rollers so the DynoJet will read a slightly lower hp figure. Make sense, or did I lose you?''That is why you are still waiting for chassis dyno or dyno tests, it will never happen, because the increase can't be calculated properly. It has repeatedly been shown on the drag strip, for one example, where the numbers on the dyno will be lower but the 1/4 mile time will be much lower and mph faster.Whether in off-roading or road racing or bicycling, lower gears will give better acceleration period, you don't need a physics paper to explain it, understand it or prove it, it is common knowledge since gear ratios have been invented.The maximum rear wheel torque as measure by the dyno is not real world RWTQ, but a computed number useful for comparing one engine to another.
If you ever want to goto 33s, you'll want 4.88s.........You might want 4.88s with the 31s, so throw that in the mix............
Hey could you put the cam that's one notch less nasty than Glen's on there for comparison? My only issue with that one is that the lift is big enough you might have to fly cut the pistons and it would be nice to use one that was more plug and play. I want to see how much theoretical difference the bigger lift makes.Might be fun to add the EB268 as well.
Ok, so if I took my truck with a rebuilt stock 22RE, stock 4.10 gears, stock 28” tires and test it on a chassis dyno. Then take the same truck only with my rebuilt engine with mods, with 4.10 gears, 31” tires and test it on a chassis dyno, the dyno results would show about the same torque and HP numbers to the rear wheels?
If I took my stock truck with stock engine, tires, but swapped the R&P to 4.56, the chassis dyno will show higher torque and higher HP numbers?If I took my stock truck with stock engine, tires, but swapped the R&P to 4.88s, will the chassis dyno show more torque and HP then the 4.56s? ... even though in 5th gear I'd running at 4,000 RPMs?Thanks,Gnarls.
can you post those numbers? I cant open the spread sheet
My 85 ran pretty strong in Colorado with 32 inch tires and 4.10 gears. I am currently running 4.88 years with 35 inch tires in my 89. I first ran the 4.88 gears in my 85 with 33 inch tires. It was a great combo and the 33 inch tires were just too much for the 4.10 gears.
...Pulling a trailer at 80 mph and a 22R-E sounds like an oxymoron to me, so I woukd go as deep in the gears as I could without getting crazy. You may never get to 80!
UPDATED CAM COMPARISON - EXCEL SHEET - Microsoft Office 2003.See attached
Well I first want to say that I like Bacon. .....
Come'on blackdiamond.... cut me a little slack. If you are inferring that I'd would pull a 16 trailer at 80 MPH with my truck and that's "crazy", you may be right, but I most likely will just keep the freeway speeds between 70 and 75 and between 60 and 65 on 2 lane and windy hilly roads. I live in AZ and if you ever get down here and drive on the 17 or 10 freeways on a Friday afternoon during the summer, I assume you'll be shocked when you get blown passed by guys pulling boats, jet skis, travel trailers, 5th wheels, and ATCs when you are going 75 MPH!!l Is it crazy? Yeah it can be. So going 80 MPH pulling a trailer where you live may be an oxymoron, but around here it seems to be the S.O.P.!!
I was only intending to state that pulling anything at 80 mph with a 22R-E is a tall order...you're likely to be at your destination before you achieve that speed.
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