Topic: No oil in oil filter

[Jarhead]

So I resently rebuilt my engine on my 4runner with a 22re. This is my first Toyota even though my samurai has mostly a Toyota drive train minus the engine. Either way I finally got about 100 miles on my new engine and decided I was going to remove the breaking oil out and put regular oil in.  After draining the oil pan I removed the oil filter and I was expecting oil to flow out like all my other vehicles. To my surprise there was no oil in the filter and the filter looked like I never had oil in it. Looking closer I did see some sighns of oil drops in there. The rig had not been started for about 3  or 4 weeks. After the rebuild I did see that there was oil pressure and that the pressure would rise when I would accelerate in the dash cluster. Is this normal??? Also I have only had this rig for about 6 months and almost of the time it's been under the  so this is the first time I changed the oil. This is my P.O.S. it's a sleeper 

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Jarhead,

The oil in the oil filter drained out after sitting for 3 or 4 weeks.

I've never seen any oil filter I've tried that keeps the oil in the filter after overnight, even if it supposedly has a "anti-drain back" valve.

What type of break in oil did you use?

What brand and part number of oil filter did you use?

Gnarls.

[Jarhead [OP]]

I don't remember the oil but the filter was a BOSH filter. That I got from Autozone

[:)bestgen4runner]

The check valve in the oil filter should keep it mostly full of oil. quality oil filters tend to do a better job of this. (OEM Toyota) 
I have replaced oil filters that felt really heavy due to incorrect change interval. The filter will start to bypass (no longer filter the oil)  once it becomes plugged/ restricted. 

[Duffil]

^^he's got the right idea. find a filter that has an anti-drainback valve in it. you can use a Wix 51348/Napa 1348. You can also go with the popular ford filter (51515/1515) as it also has a valve in it.

[kneedownnate]

I use the napa gold 1068   

I never change the oil the same day I drove the truck and always have some oil in it

[Jarhead [OP]]

Thanks for all the good info. I must admit it was nice not worrying about getting oil all over the place while I was unscrewing the filter though.

[junya92toy]

Honda had a service bulletin about this
They packaged their filters like toyota
And seal it with a plastic film guys would poke the plastic to remove it , a piece of film would get pushed into the filter and caused a blockage

[blackdiamond]

I use the napa gold 1068   

I never change the oil the same day I drove the truck and always have some oil in it

I do the opposite and change the oil (when I do it myself) after going for a drive to warm everything up. It flows better and stirs up anything that may have settled in the pan. Just my thought process anyways.

[Congill77]

Sooo everyone hear knows about the 22r(e) timing chains causing issues, a Toyota master tech that I worked with at the last dealership I was at said that this had to do with that failure. right after the filter (in the flow of oil) is the timing chain tensioner, and if it takes time to pressurize the tensioner the chain tends to slap the guides putting more the normal wear on the chain guides and then on the timing cover and we all know where that leads to....
A good fix for the filter is the anti drain back valve.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gnarly4X]

The OP only has about 100 miles on this rebuild.  It would seem very odd that the oil filter, he indicated was a Bosch, which is an ISO certified oil filter, would become clogged.

A 22 engine sitting for 3 or 4 weeks will not have enough oil left in the filter to make a diddly difference – and if anyone can show me otherwise I’ll be waiting right here for the proof.

Even if the “anti-drainback valve”, which is not leak proof, did keep the filter full of oil after the engine is turned off, the amount of oil in the filter will not make ANY measurable difference in oil pressure or flow after the oil pumps turns and begins to suck oil from the oil pan.

The amount of oil in the oil filter at start up has virtually no measurable effect on the failure of timing chain, tensioner, or guides.

That’s just my worthless opinion. 

Gnarls.

[Ritchie]

OP,
Oil pressure rising upon acceleration is normal, especially when cold.  Once warm, it will move but not as much.  You should see 40-50 psi while driving at highway speed when warm.

Nice rig.

[blackdiamond]

A 22 engine sitting for 3 or 4 weeks will not have enough oil left in the filter to make a diddly difference – and if anyone can show me otherwise I’ll be waiting right here for the proof.

I am having flashbacks...

[Cheesemaker]

I use the napa gold 1068 

I use the same if I get NAPA.  But I also use the Carquest 85068.  Which used to be the recommended size for a 83 (?) Celica with the 22R.  A friend who works at Carquest found it years ago.  But now the books have changed to the smaller filter for all 22r/e/t motors.

And I have a OEM size FRAM that was given to me, that I use as a paperweight on my work bench.    

[Jarhead [OP]]

So what I'm getting is that do NOT use the Fram filters??? How do you all come to this conclusion? I just hate going to my local Napa store the clerks there are  a holes and it's so busy you feel like you are waisting there time.


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[Mudder]

Farm filters are POS. They will become hard and stop filtering. You can use a D3 oil filter from your local toyota dealership which will cost about the same as a Napa gold, which is a wicks filter.

[Gnarly4X]

Farm filters are POS. They will become hard and stop filtering. You can use a D3 oil filter from your local toyota dealership which will cost about the same as a Napa gold, which is a wicks filter.

I have tried a dozen different oil filters over the years. I've used Fram for many years. Unless and until someone can prove to me that Fram oil filters will cause any kind of damage or extraordinary wear to my internal oil lubricated parts, I will keep using Fram.

Gnarls.

[Mudder]

If my buddy still had the one he cut open one day I'd post some pictures. Just google inside of frame oil filter and you'll see why they are garbage.

[Gnarly4X]

If my buddy still had the one he cut open one day I'd post some pictures. Just google inside of frame oil filter and you'll see why they are garbage.

Hi Mudder,

Yeah, I've researched the crap out this controversial topic and I have yet to see any "scientific" data that convinces me.  I have read the "oil dude" and the other self-proclaimed "experts", and I see flaws in their evaluation.

Gnarls.

[Slabzilla]

When you see the cheap "paper" media Fram uses verses the Napa or the Wix you'll understand. The latter two won't collapse and block and by-pass your filter. You don't even know this is happening. so you are just blindly happy with a lower grade product. Just sayin' from years of mechanic experience and viewing engine failures.   

[Gnarly4X]

When you see the cheap "paper" media Fram uses verses the Napa or the Wix you'll understand. The latter two won't collapse and block and by-pass your filter. You don't even know this is happening. so you are just blindly happy with a lower grade product. Just sayin' from years of mechanic experience and viewing engine failures.   

Hi Slabzilla,

Yep... I've read lots of posts by the "mechanics" and I understand the descriptions that they have posted about the "cheap" filter material.  Fram is one of the largest oil filter manufacturers in the world.  If there was a problem with their quality, we would hear about it by now.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

The check valve in the oil filter should keep it mostly full of oil. quality oil filters tend to do a better job of this. (OEM Toyota) 
I have replaced oil filters that felt really heavy due to incorrect change interval. The filter will start to bypass (no longer filter the oil)  once it becomes plugged/ restricted. 

When you see the cheap "paper" media Fram uses verses the Napa or the Wix you'll understand. The latter two won't collapse and block and by-pass your filter. You don't even know this is happening. so you are just blindly happy with a lower grade product. Just sayin' from years of mechanic experience and viewing engine failures.   

Here's my worthless opinion... if I take my new rebuilt 22RE and blocked of the oil port and oil filter boss on the side of the block, so no oil filter, and drive my truck with no oil filter for 5,000 (my oil change interval), then changed the oil, I'd wager a 6-pack of your favorite libation that there will be zero to neglible measurable wear on any crankcase oil lubricated parts.

[Slabzilla]

74k mi. Chevy small block/Fram-Collapsed=dead. Ford small block 87k Fram-collapsed=dead. Ford 170-6 cyl Wix 386k van wrecked/engine still going. 77 Toyota p/u 287k Napa&wix=stolen. 273 Plymouth 228k Wix/Napa. I listed just a few of the collapsed ones but run whatever you want. My present 85 Toy has 186k on my hand done rebuild and Wix/Napa Only filters. There's a reason they change the Fram filters after every quarter mile.

[emsvitil]

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

[blackdiamond]

Just don't get the cheapest Fram filters and I think you'll be just fine. The construction of their cheapest ones is just that.

[Gnarly4X]

This subject has always been one of the most hotly debated on every automotive forum website I’ve been on – dozens.

There’s no doubt there are people who have had bad experiences with the dreaded FRAM oil filters, but globally, with millions and millions consumed in the aftermarket non-OEM industry, there doesn’t seem to be any ongoing issues of causing engine failures due to the design, quality of the construction, or internal filtering materials.

A backyard self-proclaimed expert taking apart an unused oil filter and analyzing its components is like taking apart a freshly rebuilt engine and visually describing its components.  Neither action will accurately predict how it will operate in its designed function.

In the “comparisons” I have read I did not read any statements about actual testing of Filter Capacity, Cumulative Efficiency, Multipass Efficiency, Mechanical and Durability, Single Pass Efficiency to SAE Standard HS806.  Why?

To me, those comparisons are about as scientific and as meaningful as the comparison below…

Below is a link to a toilet paper comparison….  Nowhere in this comparison does it state how many “testers” there were, what parts of the tester’s anatomy were tested, how many rolls of TP did each tester test.  Did the any of the rolls pass the “poop test” which should have included:  Filter Capacity, Cumulative Efficiency, Multipass Efficiency, Mechanical and Durability, Single Pass Efficiency.

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health-products/toilet-paper-reviews/a18787/toilet-paper-brands/

The debate about those bad-a$$ FRAM filters will rage on…and on…   

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond]

This subject has always been one of the most hotly debated on every automotive forum website I’ve been on – dozens.

There’s no doubt there are people who have had bad experiences with the dreaded FRAM oil filters, but globally, with millions and millions consumed in the aftermarket non-OEM industry, there doesn’t seem to be any ongoing issues of causing engine failures due to the design, quality of the construction, or internal filtering materials.

A backyard self-proclaimed expert taking apart an unused oil filter and analyzing its components is like taking apart a freshly rebuilt engine and visually describing its components.  Neither action will accurately predict how it will operate in its designed function.

In the “comparisons” I have read I did not read any statements about actual testing of Filter Capacity, Cumulative Efficiency, Multipass Efficiency, Mechanical and Durability, Single Pass Efficiency to SAE Standard HS806.  Why?

To me, those comparisons are about as scientific and as meaningful as the comparison below…

Below is a link to a toilet paper comparison….  Nowhere in this comparison does it state how many “testers” there were, what parts of the tester’s anatomy were tested, how many rolls of TP did each tester test.  Did the any of the rolls pass the “poop test” which should have included:  Filter Capacity, Cumulative Efficiency, Multipass Efficiency, Mechanical and Durability, Single Pass Efficiency.

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health-products/toilet-paper-reviews/a18787/toilet-paper-brands/

The debate about those bad-a$$ FRAM filters will rage on…and on…   

Gnarls.

I can tell you with absolute assurance that if if cheap Fram filters mean instant death for automotive engines, they are the equivalent of the toilet paper that's provided at my work.  Single ply, thin, and somehow smooth in a way that smears more than it removes.

I think the real lesson here is that there's no reason to settle for the super cheap Fram when it takes so little to a clearly superior product.  If I remember correctly, the Bob is the Oil Guy (BITOG) forums doesn't seem to have a problem with Fram apart from their cheap basic orange can.

[Gnarly4X]

.... Single ply, thin, and somehow smooth in a way that smears more than it removes.   

Dang you blackdiamond....!!!.... I just spit a whole mouthful of my Monster Rehab all over monitor!! 

Gnarls.

[Snowtoy]

There is pretty good comparison here http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html, 30ppm comparison page http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilter/30um.htm.  Granted there wasn't a longevity test done, so it is unknown which one will perform the best from mile one to mile 3k, but from the test, Fram DBL Guard and NAPA Gold both scored the same(best as well) in the 30ppm test, everyone else was .001-.051ppm higher.

When you see the cheap "paper" media Fram uses verses the Napa or the Wix you'll understand. The latter two won't collapse and block and by-pass your filter. You don't even know this is happening. so you are just blindly happy with a lower grade product.

Having heard the alleged issue with Fram filters over the years, I have cut everyone I have removed open, and have yet to find a collapse, even on those that appear to have been left on so long the paint has faded.

Just sayin' from years of mechanic experience and viewing engine failures.   

Unless you have the full service history of the engine, where only one brand of filter/oil was used and changed religiously, it is impossible to determine the cause of failure based on the brand of the filter on the engine at the time you tore it down.