Topic: Wanting to build a hybrid 22r or ?? motor any help very apreciated

[82hilux]

Hey all, i've heard of the hybrid motors bieng built. an know a lil of what that consists of, but would like some one to give me a run down on what i would need, to build one. i have a 82 22r block complete from carb to oil pan. i guess a list of stuff i would need or want to buy to builda one,would be great thanks in advance.......

[H8PVMNT]

It's pretty easy.  You will want the head and intake from a 20r.  You will want to use either the 22r carb on an adapter  http://www.lceperformance.com/Aisin-22R-Carb-to-20R-Manifold-Adapter-Kit-p/1033000.htm or a weber.  You use the 22r head gasket.  Most guys use the aluminum rockers from the 22r because they are lighter. You want to use the 22r exhaust manifold or a header.

Make sure you get a 20r head with the power steering bosses.  Some early ones did not have them.  You will have to plug a few things on the 20r intake like the water choke fittings.  It's easy to figure out though.

Other than that you just add whatever goodies you want.

I did it and it is an improvement.  Not huge but worth it if you have the notion to do one and the parts laying around.

[82hilux [OP]]

Ok so i gota find a 20r head with bosses ive got a good webber card prob use it whats best cam an pistons to get going to get it all balanced

[79coyotefrg]

Ok so i gota find a 20r head with bosses ive got a good webber card prob use it whats best cam an pistons to get going to get it all balanced

you can use an entirely stock 81-84 22R bottom end.   with the weber I suggest a healthy cam to REALLY notice the difference  but even a stock head will make a difference.

[82hilux [OP]]

Ok good info, you think bigger than the 261 im running now? would be better, also i was thinking on having the head shaved a lil

[kneedownnate]

Make sure you get a 20r head with the power steering bosses.  Some early ones did not have them.  You will have to plug a few things on the 20r intake like the water choke fittings.  It's easy to figure out though.

X2!  My 20r head is off a 76 or 77 celica and has no bosses.  With my lack of fab skills and, at the time, nowhere to work on it, it was a pita to fab up a half-ass setup for the steering.  If I get around to it, and if santa brings me a welder for christmas, I do plan to fab up a much more solid setup than I am now running.

[Gnarly4X]

Ok good info, you think bigger than the 261 im running now? would be better, also i was thinking on having the head shaved a lil

Regarding a cam choice, what do you want out of this engine for performance – torque, HP, RPM, application? 

Why are you having the head shaved? 

If I were rebuilding a Toyota hybrid (22/20), I would have the BLOCK and the HEAD sonic tested. 

Gnarls.

[82hilux [OP]]

Im not having it shaved,was asking if i should. im wanting this hybrid build for low end torq an just really the most power i can get out of it .it will see road use every now an again but not much. ive already got a handful of tickets for driving it on the road. im lookn to get info on what (i will need an need to do) as far as pats an machine work,like a parts list. mpg is not really gona be an issue would rather have the power (as much as possible)

[82hilux [OP]]

Thanx for responding Gnarly4x

[79coyotefrg]

Ok good info, you think bigger than the 261 im running now? would be better, also i was thinking on having the head shaved a lil

I would not have the head shaved other than enough to clean the scratches.    the 20/22 hybrid works great on road and off if you have enough cam to make it really work.   not sure of the specs on a 261 but I recognize it as an Enginbldr cam.
It would probably do just fine,  just dont be afraid to rev that baby just keep it under 6000 rpm

[82hilux [OP]]

Not shaving the head,think it would cause problems from what ive been reading.i believe the 261c cam was from enginbldr, i plan on at least 5500 anyway maybe tryn find a way to chip with rev limiter

[Gnarly4X]

Hi 82hilux,

Here are a few considerations I would think through.

First, with the old block and head, they will most likely have been machined and not stock specs.

I would mic them to verify where I will end up for the center to center measurement between the cam and crank.  Head gasket thicknesses can be adjusted if necessary.  And, to determine what compression numbers I would have to consider.  A 20 minute Google search should provide lots of information on the 22/20 hybrid build and the head and block deck specs between years.

Shaving or surfacing the block deck or the head typically will be suggested by the machine shop for machining the correct RA for the type of head gasket that will be used.  My machine shop only “cleaned” the block deck with a .006” machining.  That amount did not affect the cam timing concern with cam to crank centerlines.  Decreasing the centerlines will physically produce timing chain slack, which technically will cause the cam timing to be slightly retarded.  Even at .012” off the stock block deck, the amount of cam timing retard is negligible. If cam timing is a concern, an adjustable cam gear is available to play with.

Machining the head or block for flatness may also be suggested by the machine shop.

Shaving the head will reduce the cc’s in the chamber, then you get into compression issues.  I would wager a small bet that the Toyota engineers figured out early that going higher than about 9.5:1 compression ratio on a 20/22 would cause potential failures with the head gasket.

Shaving the block deck will cause a decrease in the top of piston to deck height… another concern for compression and valve contact. If I rebuild another engine I will buy and use a deck bridge and dial indicator.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pow-pow101310?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-powerhouse-products&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwLT3iLXK1wIViMhkCh3rQQ_9EAQYAiABEgJihvD_BwE

Any machining on the block requires the timing chain cover to be machined to match the deck.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Hi 82hilux,

Regarding camshaft choices… as you know, there are many opinions and experiences with bump sticks in an early Toy engine.  You have a good number of choices with a carb’d engine.  You also have engnbldr, LCE, and 22RE Performance to get their expert advice.   Obviously the guys here who have done it should provide some insightful commentary.

Usually when you go for higher RPM power (HP) you most likely will trade off some lower RPM torque. Your selection should take into consideration your carb, head and valves, and exhaust.  It's all about volumetric efficiency and flow. 

Correctly tune matching a cam profile to the intake and exhaust systems is not as easy as it may appear.

Gnarls.

[SloCrawler]

I found a guy on Pirate who fabs the power steering bracket, I accidentally got with out the bosses not knowing it, moves it to other side of motor


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[79coyotefrg]

Hi 82hilux,

Regarding camshaft choices… as you know, there are many opinions and experiences with bump sticks in an early Toy engine.  You have a good number of choices with a carb’d engine.  You also have engnbldr, LCE, and 22RE Performance to get their expert advice.   Obviously the guys here who have done it should provide some insightful commentary.

Usually when you go for higher RPM power (HP) you most likely will trade off some lower RPM torque.

with the early engines and the 20/22 hybrid you dont have to worry about losing torque until you get a stupid amount of duration and lift in that cam.   like a stage 3 race cam you would lose some take off torque although not as much as you might think but you have 200 hp so who cares

Your selection should take into consideration your carb, head and valves, and exhaust.  It's all about volumetric efficiency and flow. 

Correctly tune matching a cam profile to the intake and exhaust systems is not as easy as it may appear.

Gnarls.

yes it does and works out incredibly well when you spend 30+ hours diligently measuring every aspect of a 20R head, intake and exhaust, then a 22R head intake and exhaust.  then having it all flow tested. 

[79coyotefrg]

Not shaving the head,think it would cause problems from what ive been reading.i believe the 261c cam was from enginbldr, i plan on at least 5500 anyway maybe tryn find a way to chip with rev limiter

I have built 2 of these hybrids one in my own truck and one for a friend.  His is still running strong   mine?  well I like to push the envelope or did back when I did the buildup.   I started with my 1979 trucks original 20R,  I rebuilt it some 20 years ago, then after running it a while with a LCengineering stage 2  .460 cam, weber carb, and headers and on 31's  it would scream along at 80 mph all day on the interstate.    I was playing in a gravel pit after work one day and found some deep muddy water that went over my hood.  after getting dragged out i pulled the plugs before spinning it over and then drove it home.

It was making all kinds of noise by the time i got home so I put rings and bearings in a 22R block I had and built my 20/22 hybrid.  this thing was incredible with the cam and other aftermarket stuff..  on my way home from work one day I down shifted to third to pass a dickhead and at 7200 rpm i dropped #4 exhaust valve.   I made it out of site and got off the road so dickhead didnt see I blew the motor    then got a tow home.
   I pulled the engine down and took it to the machine shop and they bored it to .040 over and it didnt clean up the thrashing that valve did to the cylinder.  So I searched and found I could find .060 over pistons and had them bore it to fit.  busted a few pistons till i found some good ones and I'm still running them.
This video is after I built the .060 over block with a 22R head that I ported out and plugged the egr tubes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VX1AFhpOck

[emsvitil]

Your turn signal is on