Author Topic: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?  (Read 5473 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mldave

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 1
  • Male Posts: 102
  • Member since Oct '10
    • View Profile
Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« on: Mar 10, 2013, 09:31:04 AM »
On my 86 Toyota truck,use to have a turbo engine and likely still has turbo tranny.Are the flywheels different on the turbo and non turbo 2.4 and do they take different clutch kits.
Old hardrock gold miner

Cheesemaker

  • Rock Ninja
  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 1363
  • Male Posts: 4,525
  • Member since Sep '04
  • Dean Tyler, you were an inspiration to all!!
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #1 on: Mar 10, 2013, 10:10:31 AM »
The turbo clutch used a heavier flywheel.  But in 92 (IIRC) Toyota went to the turbo flywheel for all the 22RE's.  Marlin sells a replacement flywheel, that will fit the turbo clutch, which is 9/16" larger in diameter.   And the clutch is different between the two, but either one can be used.  I have a 22RTE truck, but I swapped out the 22RTE for a 22RE, and retained the R151F trans.  And I used the turbo flywheel, and a 1,200 lb clutch from Marlin.  But I wish I had gotten the 1,600lb one. 
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

4THEWKN~9/17/2006  If it wasn't for you, I'd be driving something other than a Toyota!

My build up ~ project Kilchis! http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.0
Zak's truck build ~ http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=64319.0;topicseen

mldave [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 1
  • Male Posts: 102
  • Member since Oct '10
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #2 on: Mar 10, 2013, 10:39:33 AM »
Cheesemaker,I'm a little confused as usual.So the standard clutch kit can be used on either the turbo-non turbo flywheel?
Old hardrock gold miner

Cheesemaker

  • Rock Ninja
  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 1363
  • Male Posts: 4,525
  • Member since Sep '04
  • Dean Tyler, you were an inspiration to all!!
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #3 on: Mar 10, 2013, 08:21:11 PM »
Pre 10/92 clutches needs the 22RE flywheel and clutch, all 22RTE's, and post 11/92, uses the 22RTE flywheel and clutch. 

The non turbo clutch/flywheel is 8 and 7/8" and the turbo clutch/flywheel it 9 and 5/16".  They aren't interchangeable, you will need a turbo clutch and flywheel, or a non-turbo clutch and flywheel.   Can't mix and match.  But you can put the turbo clutch and flywheel combo into any 22r series motors, and bellhousings. 

Here's a link to Marlin's flywheel page.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

4THEWKN~9/17/2006  If it wasn't for you, I'd be driving something other than a Toyota!

My build up ~ project Kilchis! http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.0
Zak's truck build ~ http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=64319.0;topicseen

mldave [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 1
  • Male Posts: 102
  • Member since Oct '10
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #4 on: Mar 11, 2013, 04:16:52 AM »
CHeesemaker,thanks so much for your replies and info.
Old hardrock gold miner

BigMike

  • Administrator
  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 2205
  • Male Posts: 18,292
  • Member since Apr '02
  • 511:1 Club
    • View Profile
    • Bone-Stock Plane-Jane 1981 Shortbed Pickup
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #5 on: Mar 11, 2013, 08:24:44 AM »
Cheesy is correct. While both clutch dics use the same 21-spline input hub and both flywheels have the same starter ring teeth count and diameter, the main thing to note is that a Turbo clutch kit will only fit a Turbo flywheel, and a non-Turbo clutch disc will only fit a non-Turbo flywheel.

Here is a kit we offer specifically designed to upgrade non-Turbo drive trains to use the larger Turbo clutch kit:

http://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/turbo-clutch-upgrade-combo-kit



BigMike
Check out our new Rock Crawling Videos!
2016 56-speed 580:1 Tacoma Rock Crawler   
1981 36-speed 511:1 3RZ-FE Rock Crawler
1987 6-speed Supercharged 4A-GZE MR2
Instagram: @SlowestTacoma
Things are only impossible until they are not.
"The worst of both worlds, the best of neither." -abnormaltoy
"An informed question. But difficult to answer. I am what you see." -Nanaki

mldave [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 1
  • Male Posts: 102
  • Member since Oct '10
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #6 on: Mar 11, 2013, 10:05:34 AM »
BigMike,the thing is the mechanic installed a regular clutch kit on my truck which possibly still had the turbo flywheel.I didn't mention to him the truck used to have a turbo engine.So it shifted fine for about 10 days and then became tough/or impossible to shift at times.Was bled two different times and each time that worked for another week or so and then he adjusted the pedal MCC rod and that lasted another week before reverting back to the hard shifting disengagement issues.New MCC and slave,has newer MT-90 gear oil,pedal feels good.So by researching all day on the net yesterday I figure it still has the turbo flywheel in it with the wrong clutch kit.Could it possibly have shifted fine for awhile if at all with the wrong kit on a turbo flywheel??
Old hardrock gold miner

Cheesemaker

  • Rock Ninja
  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 1363
  • Male Posts: 4,525
  • Member since Sep '04
  • Dean Tyler, you were an inspiration to all!!
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #7 on: Mar 11, 2013, 11:11:58 AM »
That is probably the issue at hand. 
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

4THEWKN~9/17/2006  If it wasn't for you, I'd be driving something other than a Toyota!

My build up ~ project Kilchis! http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.0
Zak's truck build ~ http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=64319.0;topicseen

mldave [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 1
  • Male Posts: 102
  • Member since Oct '10
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #8 on: Mar 11, 2013, 11:31:10 AM »
Cheesemaker,thanks for the replies and the P.M.....the mechanic was going to talk with his parts supplier today.
Old hardrock gold miner

BigMike

  • Administrator
  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 2205
  • Male Posts: 18,292
  • Member since Apr '02
  • 511:1 Club
    • View Profile
    • Bone-Stock Plane-Jane 1981 Shortbed Pickup
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #9 on: Mar 11, 2013, 03:10:50 PM »
It is possible to install the 8-7/8" non-Turbo clutch disc onto a larger Turbo flywheel, but not possible to install the 8-7/8" non-Turbo pressure plate onto the larger Turbo flywheel.

Therefore, if no other parts were available at the time of install, the original Turbo pressure plate would have to be reused, which is a bad idea: You should never install a new clutch disc up against used surfaces. For this reason flywheels are resurfaced and reused, but no one resurfaces pressure plates, they are simply replaced. A clutch works by friction and pressure exactly how disc brakes work ... and you would never install new brake pads onto used rotors unless you first resurface the rotors. Otherwise the new brake pads won't break in properly, they will overheat and form glazed hot-spots which will cause high frequency vibration ( = brake squeal/noise) and decreased braking performance. The same is true with your clutch.

If your truck came to your mechanic with a high mileage Turbo flywheel & clutch kit, and he went to install a non-Turbo clutch kit, and had no other parts, then his only option would be to use the (smaller) non-Turbo clutch disc with the (larger) Turbo flywheel and (larger) Turbo clutch pressure plate. Physically this is okay, the non-Turbo disc will fit amongst the larger Turbo components and would function just fine. However you'd expect no mechanic to do this for the following reason: The pressure plate is a high mileage part. The flywheel is okay, as he would have resurfaced it, but pressure plates are not regularly resurfaced, other aspects wear such as the fingers that contact the release bearing, so a new pressure plate is always supplied in a new clutch kit to replace the old unit.

If this is what your mechanic did, installed only a new & smaller clutch disc and reused the other components, the clutch would still work but I suspect you'd get chatter, it would certainly overheat and fade more regularly, and have a lower load holding ability than what it was original rated for. You'd also experience accelerated disc and pressure plate wear because the contact area would be reduced. Practically speaking, after some 20,000 miles you'd have one low performing and messed up clutch kit on your hands that would overheat easily.

Assuming the clutch was adjusted properly, this would however have NO affect on your transmission's shifting performance. The only way for a clutch to affect the shifting is if it was unable to fully engage. Then you'd always have a load on the transmission input shaft and this would cause shifting issues. But this is not to be confused with a bad transmission. Internally and by itself the transmission may be healthy but have poor shifting simply because it is not able to become fully disengaged from the engine. I hope this makes sense. You cannot shift the transmission when it is under a load (ie. accelerating). This is in fact why a clutch is needed.

To set doubt aside, the thicknesses of both the non-Turbo and Turbo clutch discs are the same and the hub that engages the transmission input is in the same position. So the transmission doesn't know what clutch kit you have installed apart from a difference in the moment of inertia of the clutch disc when the clutch is engaged.

To answer your question about shifting performance, to have a new clutch installed and operating normally for a few thousand miles only to later experience transmission shifting issues, I would not assume the clutch to be the culprit. I'd only consider the clutch if it itself began acting up (maybe it has developed a fluid leak?). I'd start examining the transmission to see what is going on. Check how much metal has accumulated on the drain plug since you last serviced it and check the condition of the shift seat and socket (we offer high performance seat & sockets here: http://www.marlincrawler.com/tech/guide/heavy-duty-shifter-seat-installation). Unfortunately there aren't many external solutions to a poorly shifting transmission. If the gear oil does not indicate excessive metal and the seat and socket do not help the situation, the only way to know what is going on is to open it up for inspection.

Best of luck,
BigMike
Check out our new Rock Crawling Videos!
2016 56-speed 580:1 Tacoma Rock Crawler   
1981 36-speed 511:1 3RZ-FE Rock Crawler
1987 6-speed Supercharged 4A-GZE MR2
Instagram: @SlowestTacoma
Things are only impossible until they are not.
"The worst of both worlds, the best of neither." -abnormaltoy
"An informed question. But difficult to answer. I am what you see." -Nanaki

mldave [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 1
  • Male Posts: 102
  • Member since Oct '10
    • View Profile
Re: Turbo-non turbo clutch kits?
« Reply #10 on: Mar 11, 2013, 03:21:19 PM »
Thanks,haven't seen the mechanic today and obviously I don't know squat about any of this.Not mechanical at all.Only thing I know is it shifts fine with the engine off if that means anything.
Old hardrock gold miner

 
 
 
 
 

Related Topics

6 Replies
4445 Views
Last post Mar 20, 2005, 08:09:58 AM
by 79coyotefrg
2 Replies
1628 Views
Last post Jul 23, 2005, 05:27:36 PM
by e_cliff
8 Replies
2477 Views
Last post May 10, 2012, 10:43:24 AM
by BigMike
3 Replies
1644 Views
Last post Sep 15, 2012, 09:38:35 PM
by vikingsven
2 Replies
1166 Views
Last post Mar 02, 2013, 07:52:13 PM
by David