Topic: Interesting starter trouble

[Plowking]

My starter does not want to work due to low temperature. Any one ran into this? it is not the battery or any connections to it. This morning it was 18 degrees and gave me a hell of a time getting, it to turn the engine once it was warmed up started right up with no problem or click , click, there was draw though average.  Moisture in starter? Maybe Let me know what you think. This truck is a bigger money pit than my Dodge

[whiteman]

I notice that my 91 2wd is the same way, I wonder if they have some sort of relay that cuts power to the starter if there is to much reststance in the motor due to, too heavy of oil for winter temperature

[Plowking [OP]]

I run 20w 50 castrol but no different from my old 22R Light use till it warms up.  Battery is a Optima red top 13 months old. This motor is a 3.0 3vze. Once the starter catched it cranked a little slow but it was 18 degrees. It just took a few to many clicks to get her to roll.(maybe 12)

[BigMike]

No, there is no such circuitry that involves cutting the power to the starter. Even if your engine was frozen or had thrown a rod, you could lay on the START position all day until a fire started somewhere, or an internal short circuit occured in the starter, at which point the master AM-circuit fuses would probably blow..

I am quick to throw the blame on your battery. Have you at least tried using a known good battery at those cold temperatures? I have not studied chemical energy, but I know that temperature can not be neglected.

Once current is flowing outside of the battery, temperature on this scale really has no affect to it. In this case, the inductor inside the starter (coil) might have smaller radii and distances, but it would be on the magnitude of maybe micro-meters.

Going back to the battery, maybe someone here is a wiz in Chemistry (I sure am not! ha! take that Chemists!) but if you look at the facts, the Optima Red-Top has two ratings: Cranking Amps (910 A) and Cold Cranking Amps (720 A). If I assume that CCA is at 0 degrees-F and CA is at 75 degrees-F, then by interpolating, we see that at 18 degrees-F the available Crank Amperage is 765.6 Amps for a brand new fully charged battery.

That is 15.8% less amperage available at 18 degrees, but even still, I would certainly think that 765 A is more then enough amps to turn the starter, even after considering line and power losses.

But perhaps your battery is just too old and it can't get it done in cold weather anymore. Do you have a very slow trickle 12v charger? Maybe 12V @ 1 A? If so then hook it up to your battery before you go to sleep and let it charge over night. The battery will be warm in the morning and for all practical purposes, fully charged (less exponential growth decay), and see how it cranks then!

Let us know
BigMike

[kneedownnate]

Snap Mike!  I feel like I'm taking bombardier classes again 

[Cheesemaker]

Gear reduction starters were made just for this reason!

Another option would be a oil heater.  I believe Summit and/or Jeg's sells them.  They come in different styles.  There are some that stick to the oil pan, some that replace a freeze plug in the block, or I've seen some that you cut a hole in the side of the oil pan and plug it into it!  Most diesel trucks come with this option!  It's amazing how much faster your motor turns over when the oil is warm in the dead of winter!  Just remember to unplug them before taking off!

Batteries actually do better in the cold weather than hot weather.  Heat and weak/tired/overloaded alternators will kill a battery.  Batteries go bad in the winter time due to alot of electrical items going at the same time and not enough amperage to do all that (defrost/wipers/headlights/stereo/?) and charge the battery at the same time! (especially on short runs!)  Heat will warp the plates in the battery and short out the cells.   Hopefully this helps point ya in the right direction!

[BigMike]

I believe cold weather reduces a battery's output. I should throw a 9volt in the freezer for a couple of days and then test it

[79coyotefrg]

Jo   go to a 10/40  oil  and do like mike,said  put a trickle charger on the battery right befor you go to bed,  im betting your battery is dieing a early death

[Plowking [OP]]

Glen, Big Mike, The battery is fine. I am a big fan of the thicker oil, unfortuneatly I just changed the oil a week ago after 22 hours of snow plowing. It warmed up locally than we had this cold snap. Still alot of bugs in this truck, that sat for four years. Tomorrow I am gonna try to start it when it is 40 degrees, and see if she clicks or starts. I may opt to rebuilt the starter and clean it up inside. No new starter (non remanu) available with known name brand. Denso offers rebuilt for 141.00, Bosch 101, New Ebay no name 152.00. Marlin could start a special  catergery just for my hit list I have yet to get to, Better yet I will hire full time mechanic for the next 7 weeks.

Thank you for all the support

[BONER]

It could be the contacts in the starter itself.there are 2 l shaped copper contacts in the starter that the bendix touches when it pops out. these wear down over time, i have 180 k original starter and replaced these twice , a couple of friends have done the same. the starter will work fine then just stop working . the toyota part number is : 28226-72010 , they are @ $9.00 . alot better than a new red top or a new starter, its an easy fix.

[AKDuramax]

i would tear your starter apart because it could be just your contacts need to be cleened or they might be so warn that you need a new starter. but thats only my opinion i am from alaska originally and i have never had a battery that was only 13 months old give me cold troubles unless it had been completely drained more than once.

ps. use brake cleen to clean your starter parts its the best stuff for the job

[BigMike]

Yup, if it's not your battery then check the contacts on the starter.

Here's what they look like (old one of the left, new one on the right):


Contacts are typically credited for a lack of starter opetation, not sluggish cranking. If you have the proper current flow, then the starter should still operate ok once its spinning unless the contacts are reeeeeeeeeeally worn out or full of rust or gunk.

[Plowking [OP]]

Ok walk out this morning 33 degrees and she fires right up, Initially when it is 15 degrees colder I have had to tap the ignition a number of times to get it to start. Spring is a few weeks away. The oil I use its reccomended ambient temp is 20F. I will see I f I can post the spec sheet

[eightyfive]

i think its contacts....metal contracts in the cold and expands in the heat, which would explain easy summertime starts, and wintertime worries.

[reklund5]

Its definitely contacts.  I see this all the time at work.  $20 in parts and an hour of your time and It'll be good as new.

Ryan

[Plowking [OP]]

NICE
As soon as the the thret of snow is gone I will rip her out and rebuilder

Thanks