Topic: 87-89 DD 4runner thoughts ( possible 3.4/2.7 swap?)

[toyodaaddict]

Well guys, the time has about come to upgrade my daily driver situation . For the last 7 years Ive been DD a 84 strd cab pickup (22r, 4.88's on 33's, 15-17mpg). Im looking for more room/comfort, better mpg (20+), EFI, and hopefully a bit more power . I really love the ol toyota's and with a budget of $5000 I cant get into much of a tacoma. Ive always wanted a first gen 4runner, so  im thinking a clean stockish 87-89 will do the trick. So, now for your thoughts.

The options Ive come up with:
1. find an exceptionally clean stock 22re 4runner pay for it and be done.

2. find a clean one with a bad motor for a fair price and put in a rebuilt 22re.

3.same as 2 but go for a 3rz

4. buy a nice blown 3.0 and swap in a 3.4. (Anyone have one, what would mpg be like?)

5. other?

I dont know, this is whats going on in my head. Id love to hear some thoughts/advice 

[OVRAROK]

I would first find the 4runner, afterwards you'll know how much money is left since there is a limit, then I would decide on motor, just my 

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

I guess what inspired me to post about this is the idea of getting a 3.0 for a 3.4 swap. Should this even be considered? 'Just say no to the 3.0' is so burned into my brain that I have been ignoring well priced 3.0's. It would be great to hear from someone that has one in a first gen 4runner. mpg is a concern. 

[camhays556]

I got a Clean 87 for cheap an put a new motor in it for close to 5k.. If you do the motor yourself you know what's been done to it and what hasn't


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[OVRAROK]

I guess what inspired me to post about this is the idea of getting a 3.0 for a 3.4 swap. Should this even be considered? 'Just say no to the 3.0' is so burned into my brain that I have been ignoring well priced 3.0's. It would be great to hear from someone that has one in a first gen 4runner. mpg is a concern. 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4728621258.html  this looks like a nice 3.0

[RCKSQRL]

I guess my opinion is partially dependent upon how much of the work you can do yourself and availability of motors. (This is why) I was searching for a 3rz for years, couldn't find one so went to the 4.3. Regretted that move as I always just wanted a toy heart.... Just most get driven till dead in my neck of the woods! FINALLY Found a rolled taco I could get the motor/trans/harness everything affordable, so planning in going with that in my runner. That said, mine has been primarily a crawler and want to make it more dd. (Currently bobbed 24", tin canned so doors no longer fit, windshield can't be replaced as te pillars are crushed.... So going with new body. Have never had smaller than 35's so power I've never been used to having... Kind of like wringing the neck of the toy 4cyl motors!)

Realize that a runner is quite a bit heavier than the pickup so some mpg loss is expected. If your handy and able to do the work yourself I'd look or something with a blown motor and swap in a 3rz. That's me....
If the runner you get has a blown 3.0 may be easier to do the 3.4 as conversion parts are readily availiable. (Chilkat in oregon as well as some other companies I can't recall at the moment) once again depends on availiability and cost of motors you can find.... Sorry for the novel just throwing my thoughts out there...
Both motors are solid choices with the 3.4 having 40 more hp. That said hp per liter the 3rz is slightly ahead.... (Per big Mike)

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[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Ive had the same problem. Been looking for a 3rz with swap parts for my wheeler for over a year and cant find one for a fair price (Im in wa). At this point Im looking for a 22re 4runner  and I'll worry about how to get the 3rz after the fact, maybe just pay the price.
Im really intrigued with the toy 3.4 swap idea. The 3.4's are easier to come by and I can only emagine the POWER! What it comeas down to is I just dont know enough about it. The 4runner will be a DD/expo rig and gas milage is a big concern, 16-18 wont do and the lack of power from a 22re is never going to be ideal for a DD. So with out good info on mpg from a 3.4 in a first gen runner im back to the 3rz.
 As for the work, the only thing thats of concern is the wiring but I'll deal with that when I get there. Im sure the guys here can get me through any hang ups I encounter.

I appreciate all input, thanks.

[RCKSQRL]

Took me over 6 yrs to find mine. Actually saw the rig 5 yrs ago but guy wanted driving rig price for it.... Was bought for pennies on te dollar by someone I knew who wanted suspension parts so I bought the motor for what he paid for the entire rig. Shortly after I found 2 complete motors for sale... Keep looking they will show up!
I'm not expecting a miracle from the 3rz but guessing improved mpg and hoping it will Be like the 22r I had on 33's with 5.29's. I would be happy with that! Planning on partial or full exo, 35-37's.... So my needs and expectations are different from what your wanting needing!


Sent from magic wish granting phone

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

 I AM expecting a miracle from the 3rz . I want to pull big hills at 70+ comfortably and do alot less down shifting, all while getting 20+ mpg. This truck wont see tires bigger than 33's so hopefully thats not to much to ask.

[jssgbsn]

I say option 1 (planning for a future rebuild/swap when/if the time comes).

BTW, 85 4Runner, 5:29's, Dual Case, 35's, Armor, Winch, 22RE, TRD Cam, LC Exhaust and I am getting 23.607mpg average over the last 2 years.

That includes about 1.5 years getting about 18-20mpg using E10 Gasoline.  The past six months it averages 24-25mpg using E0 Gasoline, but my running avg since having the 4runner is 23.607mpg

I think my mpg numbers come from the Ethanol Free Gas and the fact that I rarely go above 45mph and almost never over 55mph.  I can only imagine what the mileage would be without the tires, gears, and extra weight.

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

I say option 1 (planning for a future rebuild/swap when/if the time comes).

BTW, 85 4Runner, 5:29's, Dual Case, 35's, Armor, Winch, 22RE, TRD Cam, LC Exhaust and I am getting 23.607mpg average over the last 2 years.

That includes about 1.5 years getting about 18-20mpg using E10 Gasoline.  The past six months it averages 24-25mpg using E0 Gasoline, but my running avg since having the 4runner is 23.607mpg

I think my mpg numbers come from the Ethanol Free Gas and the fact that I rarely go above 45mph and almost never over 55mph.  I can only imagine what the mileage would be without the tires, gears, and extra weight.

Thans some impressive mpg's. Sounds like we have different driving styles though. I like to keep up with traffic. 65-70 on the highway, 45-50 on back roads. My friends stock 87 4runner on 30's got a constant 22mpg on cheap gas and I was impressed with that. My mpg's are going down hill. last tank got 14.8 on 89oct ethanol free. Time for new plugs maybe. best I ever got was 17mpg.

[jssgbsn]

Yeah driving habits drive mpg in a huge way.  Here is why I do it though.

45mph = 11.25 miles in 15min
70mph = 17.50 miles in 15min

6.25 miles further dustance traveled in 15minutes.

6.25 miles take 8.33 min to drive at 45mph

So you would get there about 8minutes faster than me.

That is assuming constant speed.  But when you factor in speed limiting rules (stop signs, lights, lower speed limits, other cars limimting full speed, etc) the time delayed for me falls off even more.

I'm not sure the 8minutes (probably less) is worth the money in gas. Lets call it a conservate 7min saved, but still probably less.
 (for easy math numbers)

5mpg difference on a 10gallon tank is 50miles further per tank.  50miles further per tank at 25mpg is an extra 2 gallons conserved/used before refilling.

1 gallon of gas @ $3.50 is $7 for 2 gallons.

So it would cost me $7 to drive at a speed (70mph instead of 45mph) decreasing my mpg by 5.  (25mpg versus 20mpg - close to the range we experience with this engine/truck)

$7 at 7min is a value of $60/hour.

So that 7min needs to earn me at least $60/hour or it is costing me more money than time.

So I would need to make at least $124,800 net annual income (not Gross Annual) to justify the time savings.

But math is boring and tearing up the street is fun.  Not sure how to put a price on that 

 

[Dingman.]

I didn't read all the responses.

As far as a 3.4L swap, IF you are capable to do the work yourself or willing to pay someone a 3.4L swap into a 3.0L 1st gen runner would be cool.  Back when i used to DD my 2nd gen 4runner, i believe i used to get like 16-17mpg around town with my 3.4L swap. That was on 36-37" tires with 5.29s.  Now a days she isn't running right, and i have no idea how the mpg is. 

[John Doe]

As stated above, bith the 3.4 and 2.7 are great platforms. Depending on your choice of trans, the 3.4 can be a more expensive swap just on the point of needed adapters to run duels. Either way my suggestion is to get a working 4runner 1st, then keep your eyes out for a COMPLETE donor truck.

I am getting only 15mpg in my 3.4 4runner on 35" a/t's, but like you I have a heavy foot.

[Rock4Runner]

I have had my 84 runner carburetor I'm waiting to converts EFI swap I have some parts for my conversion but now I have in my mind OM617 or 1.9 TDI Diesel engine swap I know is not toyota engines but the averages MPG and torque are very good, but I need and I'm going to do more searches about Diesel engine swap!   

[blue4r]

I bought my 84 4runner so I could put a tdi in it.  It's a get engine.  Problem is, there is no complete swap kit yet.  Toy Works in Canada is working on one, but I think it's alittle expensive.  The TDI fits in the 4runners really well and has get torq & mpg around 30

[81 shortbed]

The. Tdi swap interests me. What kind of $ does it cost to do?

[helipilot77]

I would suggest getting a clean driver that would serve well for DD use. If you later decide to do a motor swap, you have many options. 3rz would be the most straight forward but you could also go with a 1UZ, which would give you more than enough power while improving mileage as well. Your fist goal should be to find something that will meet your needs immediately though. Would you eventually want to build it for dual use? I know you had mentioned to me that you were starting to think about that when we went to Nachese.

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

I would suggest getting a clean driver that would serve well for DD use. If you later decide to do a motor swap, you have many options. 3rz would be the most straight forward but you could also go with a 1UZ, which would give you more than enough power while improving mileage as well. Your fist goal should be to find something that will meet your needs immediately though. Would you eventually want to build it for dual use? I know you had mentioned to me that you were starting to think about that when we went to Nachese.

yeah, dual use for sure. The blue first gen will still be my dedicated wheeler. Im wanting a DD/expo type setup. Something I can sleep in and comfortably drive long distances, As well as handle light trail use. The plan is keep it simple. Im thinking E locker rear, winch, armor, and 31-33s. Ifs will be fine, maybe someday way down the road do a sas on ome's an dual cases but thats not even on the map at this point.  As for the engine, right now im thinking I want to stay 4cyl.

[jssgbsn]

Sounds like 'no input required' 

Might not even need the winch or armor!!!

Hopefully I'll be doing a sleeper set-up in the next year on mine.  Can't imagine the wood and install can cost more than a couple hundred.  Just got other things that need attention.  But who knows, maybe I can scavenge all the sleeper wood I need from some generous contractors.

Even new, i couldnt imagine more than $100-$200 for the wood and hardware to make a nice set-up in a 4runner.

[helipilot77]

I built one for my 4Runner. I even covered it in matching carpet. The most expensive part of a drawer/sleeping platform build is the slides for the drawers. The wood is cheap. You could make it significantly cheaper by not building drawers into it and just stuff gear under it. Drawers could always be added later.

[BigBluePile]

Now-a-days, if you can find a good clean 1st gen 4Runner of either motor type, get it.  The 3rz will bolt in front of the w series trannys, IIRC(good news, you can keep your gear tcase).  Whereas the 3.4 will bolt in to the r series trannys(good news, you can use your gear tcase....with an adaptor).  Anywho, there's numerous forums that can help you in either direction.

FWIW, my SC'd 3.4 in my '86 4Runner on 35's w/4.88's gets a sweet 14 mpg's...on a good day.  I also drive it like I stole it........besides, that's fun part! 

[MRHilux87]

I like the ideas.  I got a super clean 87 runner about six months ago.  It had every single option, even heated electric mirrors and sunroof.  It was already sasd with 35s.  It was so nice to drive that my wife took it over and we sold her 2012 golf tdi!  It was still lacking in the power department (22re) so I found a great deal on a 3rz on the forums.  I started the swap last week and it is already running. 
My opinion, the 3.4 is a great engine, but honestly from my experience they get pretty poor mileage.  I know some people claim otherwise, but the 3 that Ive driven for a length of time all got below 18. 
Remember the green tacoma in Ultimate adventure 2013?  Thats my buddy who lives right up the street.  On 42s, he get 6-8 mpg with his 3.4.  Not joking. 
I rode in a newer 4runner with a 3rz and it had 3 guys in it, some camping gear, and a small pop up trailer towed behind and we went 55 up a bunch of good hills.  I was sold after that. 

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Its good to hear from you guys who have experience with the 3.4. The v6 idea was fun while it lasted but my fears of poor mpg have been confirmed. It's to bad because the 3.4 is easy to get, as well as affordable. I think The 22re to 3rz will be best for me.

BigBluePile, are your o2 sensors hooked up? 14mpg with that gear/tire combo is even worse than what I expected. That would take alot of the fun out of driving for me. Bet that power is a blast though.

Helipilot, your sleeper/storage setup is by far the nicest Ive ever seen. Your 4runner is the only diesel yota Ive ever seen and The 1kz-te sounds like a great motor.  Its really to bad they are so hard/expensive to get ahold of, I wouldnt hesitate to run one. What are you getting like 25mpg? smells good to

[BigBluePile]

OP,  ya man, both OEM O2's plus a seperate wideband O2 to watch AFR during boost.  Plus, 7th injector kit.  My truck is big and heavy.  If it was all original, I'd be willing to bet I get into the 20's for mpg's.

If I was going to do another rig, I'd go with a 3rz.

[helipilot77]

Helipilot, your sleeper/storage setup is by far the nicest Ive ever seen. Your 4runner is the only diesel yota Ive ever seen and The 1kz-te sounds like a great motor.  Its really to bad they are so hard/expensive to get ahold of, I wouldnt hesitate to run one. What are you getting like 25mpg? smells good to

24 mpg/hwy. I wish they easier to get too. I would get another one to build. They are getting even harder to find than when I got mine, but they are definately still out there... for a price!

[Cheesemaker]

I've followed Bigmike up the 4 Lane going to Shaver Lake area (Coyote, Dusy-Ershim).  We all know he runs the 3RZ, 5.29's, and 37's, and he was doing 70mph easy.  I was following in the wifes minivan, and I was really into the throttle to keep up.  He said he was holding back for me, in fourth gear.  With at least 1/3rd throttle left.  And this was with just his 3RZ, no super charger or special injection system.  I think he has reported mid 20's for fuel mileage.  But he says that depends on how hard he rides the throttle. 

All the V6's are horrible at gas mileage in the Toyota platform.  I am not sure on the V8's.  But the 3RZ is the way to go. 



Another option for diesels is the OM617 Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel.  They are in every junkyard, and with mechanical injection you only need a couple wires to make it run.  4x4labs sells a adapter plate, flywheel, and spacer, to make it bolt right up to your Toyota transmission.   

[Nation]

 

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Any reason to stay away from an 89 4runner? I'm thinking about taking a look at one. I know its kind of a cross over year but no clue what changes where made.

[helipilot77]

I don't think many changes were made. But I think they usually came with more of the available creature comforts. Good luck man. I'm excited for you to get a first gen runner.