Topic: Crankshaft Pulley Grinding on Oil Pump

[Mega Baby Huey]

ok... this has been driving me crazy, and i just spent 7 hours trying to figure it out to no avail... i recently bought an '86 4runner with a bad front main seal with the intentions of fixing it and reselling it and i've hit an unexpected snag... the first time i changed the front main seal i missed the huge groove in the pulley and it subsequently ate the new seal alive and leaked worse than ever...

after towing it home and pulling it apart again i found the groove and bought a whole new harmonic balancer and put it back together. When i started it up i heard an awful metal grinding noise and found that it was coming from between the pulley and the front of the oil pump (the dust shield on the oil pump is rubbing on the inside of the harmonic balancer) I shut it down immediately and pulled it back apart but i cannot figure out why this is happening... i thought the oil pump drive spline might be in backwards, but it's not... and i compared the old and new harmonic balancer and they are the same length. it's almost like it needs a spacer between the oil pump drive spline and the harmonic balancer to push the pulley out another 1/8th inch... the only things i can think of is maybe i have the wrong oil pump drive spline (but i have to pull it back apart and measure it to see if it is the same as this one), or the wrong oil pump( i heard there's some difference between pre-85 22r's and the later 22r and 22re's...

anyone have any ideas? 

[79coyotefrg]

sounds like you have a oil pump drive spline from a single row engine and need the longer dual row opds   

or did I get that backwards

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

sounds like you have a oil pump drive spline from a single row engine and need the longer dual row opds   

or did I get that backwards

that's pretty much my only hope right now... but it looks like the one from lc engineering i showed in the link... but that's just from memory... i'm going to pull it all apart again and measure it for sure...

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

so nothing has worked so far, and i successfully messed up my woodruff key... anyone know anything it could be?

[santa cruz crawler]

So your engine is a flat top piston motor ?
I think the spacer goes on duel row chain motors rarely 20r &22r
Put your harmonic ball on and see if your belts line up ,
Mabe your spacer is gone , I have one but its from a x2 chain engine .
I also have both balancers, in good condition . Pm me if you need any parts

[79coyotefrg]

unless you have a dual row chain you need this  http://www.lceperformance.com/v/vspfiles/photos/1016067-2T.jpg
 

[79coyotefrg]

single chain = LONG gear

[santa cruz crawler]

Ah , 

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

single chain = LONG gear

that's defiantly the one i have... and it's only off by about 1/8th of an inch, and i thought the dual chain oil drive spline was about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch different...

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

well i broke into it again and this time i brought my measuring tape... the drive spline it the exact length it's supposed to be according to lc engineering...



 i also measured the oil pump and harmonic balancer... does anyone have the figures on these so i can tell if any of mine are off? the harmonic balancer is the same as the old one i pulled off, but that doesn't mean that i didn't get the wrong part by accident...

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

i think it might be the wrong oil pump, but i'm not sure... apparently there's a different between pre and post '85 22re oil pumps, but i can't find out what those differences are... does anyone know more?

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

95% sure that's my problem... i did some research on identifying 22re engine blocks and it looks like this one is a pre 1985 22r engine block... which uses a different oil pump. I guess the only way i'm going to find out is by ordering a new one and slapping it on. i'll let you guys know if this fixes it...

[emsvitil]

Remind me tomorrow to measure my 86 pump.

I have the LCE dual row timing chain conversion which uses the early pump.   I have my 86 pump in a box (that I actually know were the box is)

Can't measure either pump at the moment as I'm out of town (without the truck)

[Cheng Lo]

Mega mormon,  the fsm for an 85 doesn't show a spacer Between the harmonic balancer And oil pump drive spline.  I have mine pulled apart cause the key way sheared apart.  No spacer.

[Cheng Lo]

By the way since you have those apart,  can you put your tape on the inside diameter of the harmonic balncer?  I mean the opening that slides onto the crank.  Mine seems to have a lot of play. And I'm wondering if I need to replace mine. 

[emsvitil]

Glad someone posted something as I forgot..........

My 86 spacer (single row timing chain) is 1.685" long

My 86 oil pump will be slighty less than 1.585"  (I left the baggies on it when I measured it because it was slightly oily)

[Cheng Lo]

Just put my digital caliper on the crank shaft and harmonic balancer.
Crank shaft 31.00mm in diameter where the harmonic balancer sits.
Harmonic balancer is 31.15mm.  There is too much play between the crank and harmonic balancer on mine.
I 'll need to re place harmonic balancer.

[emsvitil]

Just put my digital caliper on the crank shaft and harmonic balancer.
Crank shaft 31.00mm in diameter where the harmonic balancer sits.
Harmonic balancer is 31.15mm.  There is too much play between the crank and harmonic balancer on mine.
I 'll need to re place harmonic balancer.

Think that's fine.

I can pull my balancer off without a pulley remover.  (really surprised me the first time, as I gave it a tug just for the hell of it and it almost landed on my head)

Once the pulley bolt is tight, it's not going to move.

[79coyotefrg]

well i broke into it again and this time i brought my measuring tape... the drive spline it the exact length it's supposed to be according to lc engineering...



 i also measured the oil pump and harmonic balancer... does anyone have the figures on these so i can tell if any of mine are off? the harmonic balancer is the same as the old one i pulled off, but that doesn't mean that i didn't get the wrong part by accident...

did you by chance have the timing cover to oil pump surface milled to clean it up?? 

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

sorry for the long response time... i ordered an oil pump for a pre-85 22r block and i'm headed out today after my classes to put it on... i'm pretty sure it'll work just fine now... after a bit of research i found that one of the only incompatible parts between pre and post 85 22r blocks is the oil pump, and according to auto zone the pre-85 oil pumps are shorter... so hopefully this will fix it!

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

well i got it done... turns out that because of the pre-85 block i had to buy a new oil pump and water pump... here are the pics to show the differences between them...

post 85 on the left, pre 85 on the right...





and the water pump... again, post 85 on the left, pre 85 on the right...






should be some good reference photos for anyone down the line who has this problem... the difference was about a half inch on both, which was more than enough to screw things up. I don't know what idiot did the swap before i had it, but they drove it around long enough to grind about 1/8th of an inch off of the sleeve on the oil pump, and it was still grinding on it when i bought it . some people's children! i understand that it was not a common issue but i'm not super mechanically inclined and i still figured it out after a couple hours weeks month and a half... but still! i can't believe someone drove it around like that! the scraping sound had to be horrible!

[2manytoys]

Thanks for taking the time to take the pics and follow through with this post. Great information. It sucks to do a search on here only to find a dead end thread.

[Mega Baby Huey [OP]]

Thanks for taking the time to take the pics and follow through with this post. Great information. It sucks to do a search on here only to find a dead end thread.

that's what pushed me to finish this one... i hate when someone has the same problem and doesn't finish it!

[Corycory]

I cannot see the pictures in this post.

[jimbo74]

I cannot see the pictures in this post.

no one can.... photobucket decided to screw over everyone and hold their pictures for ransom....