IFS experiment

[Pat]

Well I think I am going to run IFS in my current runner 4 a while as a experiment(going Old school )..  the first thing I always do is yank the IFS for a solid axle of some sort with all my many toyota's..  But this one I think I will leave for a while. and see how long I can make it last for a trail/street truck . The older I get the more I like the way it handles on the road.. I am planning a triip up to the rubicon in a few weeks so I will put it to the test..  Just going to have fun with 33's, 5.29's , a single 4.7 and a elocker rear..  It all ready has a 4" IFS lift..  

I have all the spares I need  but it will be fun to see how much stuff I break.  

So show me all your Broken IFS pics and how you were set up.. I was looking on the round up thread from last year and all the pics of a IFS rig he was broke But I see them up there from time to time not broke..




The down side is no little sluice for me this year..  Or at least till I come to my witts and put a solid axle in..hahaha




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[Snowtoy]

I have been wheeling IFS for 19yrs now, and the only thing that I have broken was one tie-rod 2yrs ago on Fordyce coming up Sunset hill from the first x-ing.  I was running 325 BFG's w/a lock right in the front.  I had an ARB in the rear but  I had over tightened the new style diff. housing seal and it had come loose.  Two months later went on the '07 round-up w/the ARB issue fixed and dual cases(oem geared) and I didn't have any issues at all coming in from Tahoe to the Springs or back out.  I had to go slower than my buddies, but not enough to slow them down, and I was actually having an easier time then some of the SA'd rigs, but then again wheel trail experience will make up for what capabilities the rig may lack.  I am leaning towards an SAS, and have started to gather parts for it, I am just not in that big if a hurry. 

Last year a buddy of mine took his newly acquired '84 Runner through on some beat to hell 35's, cut the fenders to clear them and ran the Rubicon w/o any real issues.  He got stuck a few times and had to get strapped.  I don't see why you would do any worse w/33's and IFS, likely a little better since you have a 4.7 geared t-case.

As long as you remember that you are wheeling IFS and wheel accordingly you shouldn't run the risk of breaking that much.

I don't think you will enjoy it enough to keep the IFS long term given your past experience w/SA'd rigs, but then again the IFS would bring new challenges to your old trails.

[yota_krawler]

I ran well tried to run rubicon in my 4runner. Its IFS on 35s lockers front and rear with 5.29s


It sucked. IFS just doesnt flex

[Pat]

Yes we know it does not flex..  That is the reason for the post..  it is weaker too ..  But If I can go where I want with a nice street drive it might hold me over for a few monthes or more if I am happy enough(i doubt it)..  Just kinda wondering how much you guys really have been breaking these thing wheeled responcibly..  I have had extreme  and it is fun..  Now it is more about me taking my kids fishing at buck island:D then driving home with the air on

[Pat]

I have been wheeling IFS for 19yrs now, and the only thing that I have broken was one tie-rod 2yrs ago on Fordyce coming up Sunset hill from the first x-ing.  I was running 325 BFG's w/a lock right in the front.  I had an ARB in the rear but  I had over tightened the new style diff. housing seal and it had come loose.  Two months later went on the '07 round-up w/the ARB issue fixed and dual cases(oem geared) and I didn't have any issues at all coming in from Tahoe to the Springs or back out.  I had to go slower than my buddies, but not enough to slow them down, and I was actually having an easier time then some of the SA'd rigs, but then again wheel trail experience will make up for what capabilities the rig may lack.  I am leaning towards an SAS, and have started to gather parts for it, I am just not in that big if a hurry.  

Last year a buddy of mine took his newly acquired '84 Runner through on some beat to hell 35's, cut the fenders to clear them and ran the Rubicon w/o any real issues.  He got stuck a few times and had to get strapped.  I don't see why you would do any worse w/33's and IFS, likely a little better since you have a 4.7 geared t-case.

As long as you remember that you are wheeling IFS and wheel accordingly you shouldn't run the risk of breaking that much.

I don't think you will enjoy it enough to keep the IFS long term given your past experience w/SA'd rigs, but then again the IFS would bring new challenges to your old trails.

thanks for the reply snowtoy.. I kinda figured you can make them hold up..  Do you have your steering stops out much??  I can make this thing turn on a dime but just like any steering joint it has to make it weaker

Oh yea..  it is looking more and more like it will be temporary..  Just picked up some parts for a Dana 44 to narrow..  I will narrow this one to about 62" to match up with the taco rear I have at 60"

[Cheesemaker]

Ask Blackdog, and Rocksurfer about this.  They have wheeled IFS where most wouldn't take one. 

But from what I've heard and read, is that you have to know your rig, and carry spare hubs, and half shafts/cv joints.  Since those have a tendency to be the weak link.  Especially, the cv's with a locker in the front, they just don't like each other.

[BLACKDOG]

those pictures of the broke IFS as the roundup last year were probably mine.  Last roundup was definitely a rough trip for my rig.  Prior to that trip, I had broken a couple CVs and the center link on the steering.  That trip alone I broke 2 outer CV shafts, and 3 inners   Later, I checked, and the IFS framework was no longer square.  Somewhere along the line, I tweaked that framework, which leads me to believe nothing was lining up "quite" right.  It was probably at blingn's bachelor party at moonrocks, or the trip before, when I flopped it

I think you'll be fine, take a few spares, and take your time.  Prior to last roundup, the truck saw a couple trips to the rubicon, several trips to moonrocks, and countless trips in the Sierras, on trails of varying degrees.  I was never easy on the truck, you can check out my pics in several of the moonrocks threads, and 2 of the roundup threads (5 and 7 I believe).  As mentioned above, there were some areas where I had a less difficult time than some SFA rigs.  Just the way it goes.

Take some spare CV's (I broke more inner shafts than outters) a spare idler arm, and a spare center link. 

BTW, I had 5.29s, 35"s, duals, and was locked front and rear for all of this

Good luck, and have fun.  I have a feeling you will be pleasantly surprised by what the IFS can do, and the abuse it can hold up to.

[Snowtoy]

thanks for the reply snowtoy.. I kinda figured you can make them hold up..  Do you have your steering stops out much??  I can make this thing turn on a dime but just like any steering joint it has to make it weaker

Oh yea..  it is looking more and more like it will be temporary..  Just picked up some parts for a Dana 44 to narrow..  I will narrow this one to about 62" to match up with the taco rear I have at 60"

I haven't even looked at the steering stops on the '91(built just to wheel), they are probably at the oem specs.  Both of my rigs are x-cabs, so turning on a dime isn't something they do easily   They do however turn tighter than an SA, even w/the lock-right up front.

The nice thing about wheeling the IFS is when you pass an SA rig that is having a rough go at it, the look on their face when they see the IFS is worth not being able to go extreme, or having to go a little easier than the SA's.

I am running the 1.5" ball-joint spacers on the '91, which help with what flex the IFS has, however I have torn a CV boot just about every time out.

Spares I carry:
4 tie-rod ends(of course the only tine I didn't have a spare that was what I broke)
1 steering relay rod
idler arm
2 cv's(though w/o a front locker you shouldn't need one)
2 hubs

Given what your goals are, the IFS may suit your needs.  I find that it works well enough for about 95% of the trail(s) out there, providing you don't wheel with the skinny pedal.  I think you also have to pay a little more attention to the trail than if you were wheeling an SA, similar to wheeling a DD.

I think you will have a good time, just expect to here all the crap about how the IFS doesn't belong on the trail, and how impatient some will be if you break and block the trail.  They act like SA'a never break and block the trails for hours.

[gnob]

sound like an okay idea, if you get free alignments...

[yota_krawler]

I ran well tried to run rubicon in my 4runner. Its IFS on 35s lockers front and rear with 5.29s


It sucked. IFS just doesnt flex

it would have helped if I had a 4.7 case or duals tho and if my locker didnt take a

[Rocksurfer]

I don't break stuff, but I'd probably be easier on my truck than most. I find that this is best when running IFS. Now that doesn't mean I won't hammer it if the need occurs. I've done the 'con with IFS and it wasn't so bad, the only part I did avoid is Little Sluice though, other than that I even did Old and True Sluice.

[Snowtoy]

sound like an okay idea, if you get free alignments...

I forgot about that part w/wheeling IFS, it isn't anything to worry about though.  Just take along a tape measurer or a piece of static rope(about 100 inches worth), so you can check/set the toe before heading home.

[Rocksurfer]

I've never had an issue with alignment, but they are the easiest to adjust.

[Snowtoy]

I never had an issue with the toe on my '90 and 33's when wheeling, but I have had to do a couple checks/set with the '91's.  I really didn't care about the toe when I had a beat up set of BFG 325's, but after the new(less than 1k miles when I bought them) 35 Xterrains I have had to set the toe twice to prevent unnecessary tire where during a long rode home.

Pat
If you want an idea of what the IFS will do, just take a day run/weekend trip up to the High Lakes, not sure if you would want to drop down into Morris, unless it isn't as torn up as it it was 2yrs ago.  You could also head over to Fordyce lake and take a run down to the Committee crossing, run up to Signal peak(either side), or take a run into Eagle lakes or down to the first creek x-ing.  This would give the ability evaluate the IFS for yourself w/o being on a trail as long as the Rubicon.

[emsvitil]

Alignment was screwy with my IFS until I went to poly bushings....

With the stock rubber, you'd go off-road and when back on the pavement the alignment would be off (going straight and steering wheel would be off-center).   

Then the alignment would slowly correct itself (steering wheel would straighten out)

But you were never sure if it fully straightened out.........

After the poly bushings, I can go off-road and the steering wheel is the same before and after; so I'm assuming the alignment hasn't changed.

[Pat]

I never had an issue with the toe on my '90 and 33's when wheeling, but I have had to do a couple checks/set with the '91's.  I really didn't care about the toe when I had a beat up set of BFG 325's, but after the new(less than 1k miles when I bought them) 35 Xterrains I have had to set the toe twice to prevent unnecessary tire where during a long rode home.

Pat
If you want an idea of what the IFS will do, just take a day run/weekend trip up to the High Lakes, not sure if you would want to drop down into Morris, unless it isn't as torn up as it it was 2yrs ago.  You could also head over to Fordyce lake and take a run down to the Committee crossing, run up to Signal peak(either side), or take a run into Eagle lakes or down to the first creek x-ing.  This would give the ability evaluate the IFS for yourself w/o being on a trail as long as the Rubicon.

I will just go for it..  I am heading up to the con on the 25th and 26th of this month..  I have spares and time..  Doing a run with my sons and a couple friends mwith their rigs..  Join us if you can handle a Kid friendly run..    we are bringing the kayak, rc crawlers, fishing poles and so on..  it will be fun

[Snowtoy]

Thanks for the invite, but I likely wont be getting any wheeling in this summer, my Mom is terminally ill. 

Have fun, and make sure to post pics.

[jtaco1]

You'll be fine, just know the limitations of the truck, ie no flex.  We wheeled my 88 4 Runner with stock suspension, 35's, dual cases and a rear locker and it did great.  I did get hung up twice, but a quick tug with a strap and we were going again.  Once the gas tank got in the way and high centered and the other I slipped off a boulder and got the frame stuck on a stump.

[TRACKER]

we ran the rubicon on memorial weekend . one of friend have 86 runner  with 33s ,4.88s,4.7 t case ,locked front and rear .. he made thru the con without breaking anything .. he did bent up his front suspension

[Pat]

nice pics.. He is set up just like me..  Other thsn I have not put a locker in the front third yet..  What did he bend?

[Rocksurfer]

Like I've told many people before, make sure to put a rear crossmember on the front suspension and also a gusset on the idler arm. These two upgrades will keep the frame from twisting and the steering where it belongs. If you don't have time to get the gusset take a spare, it sucks to loose the steering on the trail.

[Pat]

the rear is braced..  As far as the Idler gusset I dont have that..  Hmm..  must look into it..  Have lots of spares though..  I have only cut off like 6 or these things..hahahaha

[Rocksurfer]

The idler is a very well known weak link. The funny part about towing it out is it can only be done backwards, doing that way keeps the wheels straight. I've always carried a spare with me and make sure you can get the broken one off ahead of time. It really sucks to break one, have a spare only to find out you can't get the old one off. In regular maintenance I always loosen then retighten the bolts, that way when the time comes (notice I said when) you will be able to get it off and put the spare on.

[Rocksurfer]

The biggest thing I like about IFS is that if you snap an axle or halfshaft you can turn that side off and get out. The other good thing is halfshafts are easy to replace and both sides are the same. It can be tough to replace an axle though and the suspect is the short one. It provides little to no flex, and usually you can't fish the broken piece out with a magnet since they are held in by a clip ring. I've only broken one shaft and it was the shorty, ended up just running in 3wd.

[TRACKER]

nice pics.. He is set up just like me..  Other thsn I have not put a locker in the front third yet..  What did he bend?

we haven't look into it yet. when driving back home his front wheels have real bad positive camber ... he's looking into doing SAS now ,,LOL

[Snowtoy]

He may have just knocked his alignment out a lot.  Absent hitting things at speed w/large tires/poorly designed after market lift, the IFS components and frame work wont simply bend out of shape.

[Snowtoy]

Like I've told many people before, make sure to put a rear crossmember on the front suspension and also a gusset on the idler arm. These two upgrades will keep the frame from twisting and the steering where it belongs. If you don't have time to get the gusset take a spare, it sucks to loose the steering on the trail.

If you use the Moog idler arms you can't brace them, they are too big, and i have yet to break one.  Bent a few sure, but haven't broken any.

I also installed a full skid plate front to rear to go along with the rear x-member, so I can slide/push the front over rocks w/o issue of damaging the diff.

[Pat]

If you use the Moog idler arms you can't brace them, they are too big, and i have yet to break one.  Bent a few sure, but haven't broken any.

I also installed a full skid plate front to rear to go along with the rear x-member, so I can slide/push the front over rocks w/o issue of damaging the diff.

where do you get the moog arm?  any online sources?

[Pat]

found them..  but  at $147.99 I will just change the stockers

[THK Matt]

If you use the Moog idler arms you can't brace them, they are too big, and i have yet to break one.  Bent a few sure, but haven't broken any.

I also installed a full skid plate front to rear to go along with the rear x-member, so I can slide/push the front over rocks w/o issue of damaging the diff.

you run custom skids or you buy them from budbuilt?