Author Topic: K&N filters (Read 5234 times)

Hilux92 · « **on:** Jun 01, 2009, 10:05:47 PM »

I have seen lots pf engine pictures with some of you guys running K&N filters. I want to fit one on my Weber but heard that the filtration is not very good.

Snowtoy · « **Reply #1 on:** Jun 02, 2009, 04:24:21 PM »

Filtration seems to work fine for the one on my Dad's TBI 350. The cone one I have on my 3.0 also seems to work well. I have it on there since '95, and no issues with more dirt getting into the engine.

A lot of the negative info about the K&N filters come from their competitors, and from over oiling the filter, and/or not letting it dry before installing it. When you over oil oil them, the extra oil gets sucked into the intake and can cause issues, but this more common with efi than carb.

junya92toy · « **Reply #2 on:** Jun 02, 2009, 05:27:35 PM »

I find my truck runs better on a stock filter not the kn

4.3 headache · « **Reply #3 on:** Jun 02, 2009, 06:35:05 PM »

My K&N does a GREAT job filtering (when it's dirty!)
other than that or highway use I am not happy with them

I will not run one in the sand dunes again, unless you've got an oiled foam pre-filter.

Get a K&N pre filter for normal offroad dirt use and you'll be okay.
If you want the best reliability run the paper filter.

my

blackdiamond · « **Reply #4 on:** Jun 02, 2009, 07:03:59 PM »

More airflow = less filtration. Make your choice and don't look back.

Filtration tests and oil analysis show that a K&N doesn't filter as well as a stock style filter, but only you can determine what you're comfortable with. I choose to not run K&N anymore, but I don't think it would really hurt anything.

If your intake isn't efficient it's possible that a stock filter is already adequate. I think they generally advertise about 5 hp which translates to less than 5 lb-ft of torque on a Toyota engine and I'd bet they are not using a 110 hp motor for the test so the actual increase would be expected to be less.

MC387 · « **Reply #5 on:** Jun 03, 2009, 10:02:58 AM »

You ill find that the K&N will pass a lot more fine dust into your engine. I for one do not find this acceptable on a rig that will be ran in the dirt. When I worked at Ford we saw a bunch of dusted turbos, and 90% of the time they had a k&N or something like it. They may be fine for road use, or an engine that gets torn down often like a race aplication, but I do not ever want one on a trail rig again.

Stocker · « **Reply #6 on:** Jun 03, 2009, 03:31:27 PM »

I have run K&N on a couple rigs without any problems... I was always careful to wash & dry, and not over-oil them. But after reading so much about OEM paper filters doing a better job, I won't buy another K&N.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #7 on:** Jun 03, 2009, 04:02:32 PM »

Quote from: Stocker on Jun 03, 2009, 03:31:27 PM

I have run K&N on a couple rigs without any problems... I was always careful to wash & dry, and not over-oil them. But after reading so much about OEM paper filters doing a better job, I won't buy another K&N.

I've always wondered what the average consumer, such as you and I, would really expect to find for "problems" when we're only talking about particles. I just try to make the best choice I can, but figure that I may never see any tangible difference.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #8 on:** Jun 03, 2009, 04:57:08 PM »

When I bought my 91 toy it had a paper element and a horribly dirty throttle body/intake. I cleaned out the intake and installed a k&n at the same time, about 50,000 miles, and the throttle body is waaaay cleaner than it was when I first got the truck. There was a thick layer of goop inside the throttle body before, now there's a thin black layer but you can still see the swirls in the metal.

Stocker · « **Reply #9 on:** Jun 03, 2009, 06:10:43 PM »

Quote from: blackdiamond on Jun 03, 2009, 04:02:32 PM

I've always wondered what the average consumer, such as you and I, would really expect to find for "problems" when we're only talking about particles. I just try to make the best choice I can, but figure that I may never see any tangible difference.

Agreed. I guess the only 'problems' the average consumer might notice would be from over-oiling, and that's probably only an issue in newer vehicles. The exception would be turbocharged engines, as MC387 said.

Of course, no matter what type is used, it will need to be changed/cleaned as necessary.

All_Set · « **Reply #10 on:** Jun 04, 2009, 09:09:20 AM »

Quote from: kneedownnate on Jun 03, 2009, 04:57:08 PM

When I bought my 91 toy it had a paper element and a horribly dirty throttle body/intake. I cleaned out the intake and installed a k&n at the same time, about 50,000 miles, and the throttle body is waaaay cleaner than it was when I first got the truck. There was a thick layer of goop inside the throttle body before, now there's a thin black layer but you can still see the swirls in the metal.

That's because the PO kept his $200 K&N filter/cold air setup and put the stock one back in. It was gooped up because they always over oiled their filter!

haha.

I understand over oiling (more than one quick spray..) causes the oil to be sucked down into the motor, gumming up components and throwing codes on EFI motors. Add a dusty environment and you have gummy dusty intake!

kneedownnate · « **Reply #11 on:** Jun 04, 2009, 09:17:21 AM »

Quote from: All_Set on Jun 04, 2009, 09:09:20 AM

That's because the PO kept his $200 K&N filter/cold air setup and put the stock one back in. It was gooped up because they always over oiled their filter! haha.

I don't think little old gray haired ladies are too hip to k&n! My old corolla gts was the same way, serious gunky buildup all over the inside of the throttle body, and I got it from an older lady too.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #12 on:** Jun 04, 2009, 11:44:48 AM »

Quote from: kneedownnate on Jun 04, 2009, 09:17:21 AM

I don't think little old gray haired ladies are too hip to k&n! My old corolla gts was the same way, serious gunky buildup all over the inside of the throttle body, and I got it from an older lady too.

Dag-nab grandkids!

jimbo74 · « **Reply #13 on:** Jun 04, 2009, 11:50:49 AM »

flow is greatly improved over stock... however, it doesn't filter as fine of particles..... will a little more dirt kill your engine? tests havent been proven significantly....

i will take more power, versus a little more wear

zippo · « **Reply #14 on:** Jun 04, 2009, 11:09:19 PM »

http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm#WORD

I have used K&N for along time and love them. I have never noticed any ill effect or had problem. I will say that when looking at a paper filter and a K&N filter the paper filer has more dust and dirt on the surface. Wash a K&N and you will see how much they really stop/hold.

Let us also look at surface area. it is common for a K&N filter to have more surface area/air flow then a factory style filter. so all things being equal at 99% filtration(cause nothing is 100%) the K&N filter, yes will let in more due to the added air flow, but is still offering the same qaulity as the factory one.

IE - A facoty filter flows 100 Cubic Feet of air per Minute "CFM" and lets in 1 partical of dirt. The K&N filter flows, 200CFM and lets in only 2 particals of dirt. So yes it let more in, but had the same amount of air flowed in with the factory filter it would be the same. given you more air flow for your airpump(engine).

Now everything i look at says a factory style filter can be as low as 93% effetive and K&N says they opperate at 96-99% effective. given you even better odds.

So is it worth it. I think it is. Given the amount of dirt we throw at them the filter, evn a paper filter will fail and easly clog/let particals in. i think a pre filter would be a good idea regaurdless of what type of filter you have. and over oiling is a user error and can not be put on K&N but the user

Kurlee Daddee · « **Reply #15 on:** Jun 05, 2009, 06:39:40 AM »

I use a stock paper air filter on my truck because I don't want it coated with dirt everytime I got camping or wheeling. And I am too lazy to clean it every time.

But be aware, that if your engine is MAF controlled, it can be coated with the oil your air filter is coated with. I wrote up this thread when I had my WRX. The ITG filter I had on there coated my MAF and made the car run like pooh: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engine-modifications/68619-attention-k-n-itg-perrin-drop-air-filter-users.html

OOPS · « **Reply #16 on:** Jun 05, 2009, 06:02:21 PM »

After finding a layer of dirt from the wrong side of the filter past the TB I went back to a stock filter, guess what no more dirt.

After find this on my rig I check my 81 Honda dirt bike and my 78 Classic Triumph MC and found the same thing, back to stock filters. As far as I am concerned K & N's suck.

I have an Airaid system on my CTD Dodge and the whole intake system is clean and it has an oil it filter.

The best filter system I ever used was the oil bath system that was on my air-cooled VW's and 55 Chevys.

THK Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** Jun 05, 2009, 10:33:42 PM »

Quote from: OOPS on Jun 05, 2009, 06:02:21 PM

The best filter system I ever used was the oil bath system that was on my air-cooled VW's and 55 Chevys.

explain?

Stocker · « **Reply #18 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 06:58:04 AM »

Quote from: OOPS on Jun 05, 2009, 06:02:21 PM

The best filter system I ever used was the oil bath system that was on my air-cooled VW's and 55 Chevys.

I serviced quite a few of those when I worked in a gas station as a kid, in the mid Sixties. Never knew if they were effective or not, but they were a messy PITA to deal with....

Stocker · « **Reply #19 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 07:03:27 AM »

Quote from: THK90 on Jun 05, 2009, 10:33:42 PM

explain?

From Wikipedia:

An oil bath air cleaner consists of a round base bowl containing a pool of oil, and a round insert which is filled with fibre, mesh, foam, or another coarse filter media. When the cleaner is assembled, the media-containing body of the insert sits a short distance above the surface of the oil pool. The rim of the insert overlaps the rim of the base bowl. This arrangement forms a labyrinthine path through which the air must travel in a series of U-turns: up through the gap between the rims of the insert and the base bowl, down through the gap between the outer wall of the insert and the inner wall of the base bowl, and up through the filter media in the body of the insert. This U-turn takes the air at high velocity across the surface of the oil pool. Larger and heavier dust and dirt particles in the air cannot make the turn due to their inertia, so they fall into the oil and settle to the bottom of the base bowl. Lighter and smaller particles are trapped by the filtration media in the insert, which is wetted by oil droplets aspirated thereinto by normal airflow.

Oil bath air cleaners were very widely used in automotive and small-engine applications until the widespread industry adoption of the paper filter in the early 1960s. Such cleaners are still used in off-road equipment where very high levels of dust are encountered, for oil bath air cleaners can sequester a great deal of dirt relative to their overall size, without loss of filtration efficacy or airflow. However, the liquid oil makes cleaning and servicing such air cleaners messy and inconvenient, they must be relatively large to avoid excessive restriction at high airflow rates, and they tend to increase exhaust emissions of unburned hydrocarbons due to oil aspiration when used on spark-ignition engines.

A basic illustration:

OOPS · « **Reply #20 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 07:36:53 AM »

They are messy to deal with and because of emissions and the paper filter they were phased out. When I tore the engine on my VW with 150,000 miles on the clock the hone marks were still in the cylinders. They would not workwell on a rig like mine because of the extreme angles I run at.

David · « **Reply #21 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 08:31:35 AM »

You don't want to run a K&N oil filter on a CTD, way bad news. With the oil pressure they develope they will shred the filter medium and suck it into the engine. As for the intake air on a CTD it's hard to beat a BHAF with a sock cover. IMHO

THK Matt · « **Reply #22 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 11:28:19 AM »

what the crap do all those abbreviations stand for... this isnt an AIM board haha

kneedownnate · « **Reply #23 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 04:00:38 PM »

People like to think the only reason the k&n breaths better is because it filters less. WRONG! It's the filter media, paper is an effective filtration media, but it's dense. Cotton, which is what k&n filters use, is less dense and allows air to flow through more freely. If more dirt got through your k&n it's either because you didn't seal it correctly or because you under oiled it.

And for those concerned with them getting dirty too quickly on a couple dirt roads, I run dirts roads quite a bit from spring to fall, at least every 2 weeks, and only really have to clean it about twice a year. I've never actually noticed a difference in performance, I just like to pull it mid year and clean it.

I'm not calling anyone a liar or an idiot, but ignorance is bliss

OOPS · « **Reply #24 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 04:52:33 PM »

Quote

You don't want to run a K&N oil filter on a CTD, way bad news. With the oil pressure they develope they will shred the filter medium and suck it into the engine. As for the intake air on a CTD it's hard to beat a BHAF with a sock cover. IMHO

The only oil filters and fuel filters I run in my CTD I buy at the Cummins Dealer.

Quote

If more dirt got through your k&n it's either because you didn't seal it correctly or because you under oiled it.

My K&N's were well oiled and all the mateing surfaces were smeared with grease including the tube joints to seal them. K&N's are crap IMHO!!!!!!!!

unclejpl4x4 · « **Reply #25 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 05:53:38 PM »

all im gonna say is i have a K &N air filter on my 22re for 5 yrs i clean it when it needs it. as for paper every one should keep a extra cheap o filter for those trail emergency.

David · « **Reply #26 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 06:18:30 PM »

"The only oil filters and fuel filters I run in my CTD I buy at the Cummins Dealer."
I don't know what you are paying from the Cummins dealer but here is a link to a diesel forum. On the forum look for Ken's Performance Solutions, a sponser on the site, he has the absolute best prices for oil and fuel filters that Cummins sells and a host of other goodies for our CTD's. DieselRam.com
abbreviations:BHAF=Big Honk'n Air Filter a great product also sold by Ken.

OOPS · « **Reply #27 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 06:41:19 PM »

Not that much cheaper then Cummins West, heck of a lot cheaper the the Dodge dealer. Thanks for the link.

David · « **Reply #28 on:** Jun 06, 2009, 10:46:09 PM »

Cheaper than a dodge dealer is right. Our local dealership wants $50 for the oil filter and $45 for the fuel filter, crooks they be.

Gnarly4X · « **Reply #29 on:** Apr 15, 2022, 04:21:55 AM »

RESURRECTION!!

Quote from: kneedownnate on Jun 06, 2009, 04:00:38 PM

People like to think the only reason the k&n breaths better is because it filters less. WRONG! It's the filter media, paper is an effective filtration media, but it's dense. Cotton, which is what k&n filters use, is less dense and allows air to flow through more freely. If more dirt got through your k&n it's either because you didn't seal it correctly or because you under oiled it.

And for those concerned with them getting dirty too quickly on a couple dirt roads, I run dirts roads quite a bit from spring to fall, at least every 2 weeks, and only really have to clean it about twice a year. I've never actually noticed a difference in performance, I just like to pull it mid year and clean it.

I'm not calling anyone a liar or an idiot, but ignorance is bliss

I ran K&N air filters on my sandrails for 8 years.

K&N air filters have an inherent major design flaw - that's just my worthless opinion.

I could write a short story on my experience. I would never run a K&N air filter again.

And... yes "ignorance is bliss"!!

Gnarls.

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