Topic: Do You Support Home Schooling ?

[Hammerhead]

...and we even went wheelin' today... 

[93tonkatoy]

There's a little something called "separation of church and state",  tax money is being spent for every minute a child is in public school. This time should not be allotted for religious activities. If parents want their children schooled on religion they should read the bible and pray at home and or attend sunday school.
Whats next?  Would you want people bowing down to bless Mohamed ten times a day in public school? I know I wouldn't.

Who is the government supposed to benefit? the PEOPLE.

The public school system is "preaching" the religion of atheism. They have mandated GOD out of public life.

This country was built on christian principles, which include tolerance. In my 5th grade class, one student's parents told the teacher that it was against their religious belief to pledge their allegiance to anyone other than GOD. That student remained seated and quiet while the rest of us stood and said the pledge. The situation was explained the first day of class, and noone had any problems because of it. If my child was in a school where it was predominately muslim, I would expect the same respect for our beliefs.

And, the "separation of church and state" was constructed to prevent the government from dictating an "official national religion" (meaning this is the only recognized religion). It has been twisted and spun to imply whatever a certain few have wanted it to mean. Was it intended to prevent your city displaying the manger scene on city property at CHRISTmas? NO. And, if there is a separation of church and state, why does the government declare Christian holidays as National holidays? sounds to me like people want it both ways.

HH, who do I have to talk to about getting my son in your school? Sounds like you and your wife are going to have some pretty well-rounded kids when it is time for them to face the world.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Hammerhead good on you for doing what you are doing.  You must be very proud.



Kinda funny how the left adds stuff into the constitution when it fits their current agenda.  They preach (in a non religious way of course) that gay marriage is protected by the constitution then turn around and say the second amendment does NOT ensure our right to own and carry guns....  Leftists are just hypocrites plain and simple. 

And as it has been said the separation of church and state was brought about to keep the leader of the US from mandating a state religion as had happened in England.

[emsvitil]

You really don't learn anything unless you want to learn.   

This comes from your parents.

But I'm not advocating home schooling..........

Without public school (or private, just not home schooling) you'll have poor social skills (or none at all).

School is more important for learning how to coexist in society, getting along, etc....

[Lady Di]

Wow, where did you grow up? You're, if you didn't lie in your profile, way younger than me and I was in the last generation that actually prayed in school.

I agree with WT on this, and you know we are about the same age AT. The catholic school in our area in NJ only wen to 8th grade, then the students were either intigrated into the public school or sent to a private school.
The ones I knew at our public school were the loosest and wildest of all the girls. Like Frank Zappa said... Catholic Girls...you know how they go...

[abnormaltoy]

There's a little something called "separation of church and state",  tax money is being spent for every minute a child is in public school. This time should not be allotted for religious activities. If parents want their children schooled on religion they should read the bible and pray at home and or attend sunday school.
Whats next?  Would you want people bowing down to bless Mohamed ten times a day in public school? I know I wouldn't.

First of all, Muslims "only" pray five times daily.

I'll buy you an “extra turbo” In-n-Out burger if you can show me anything in the Constitution about separation of church and state.

The First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I think that's pretty unambiguous.

“The free exercise thereof”…means, if one feels the urge to kneel on the sidewalk and pray, no one can stop it. I guarantee no one would stop a Muslim from doing it…that would be politically incorrect.

Why do so many on the left feel threatened by religion and religious people? I have never been accosted by a Bible waving zealot trying to force their ideology down my throat...I can't say the same thing about the religion of the left. I think the one thing the left fears from religion is...hope. What part of not "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is so hard to grasp. From a purely practical standpoint, if religious practitioners are wrong in their faith…what harm has been done to you? If you’re wrong about your lack of faith, well. Yet you and your ilk seem bent on making everyone conform to your idea of what people should be…maybe that’s just the main fault of "progressive" Socialists…their need to control every aspect of the people's daily lives.

Why is it ok to teach (a purely personal value idea like) it's ok for little Johnny to have two daddies, yet go absolutely apoplectic because there is a plaque on the wall listing the 10 Commandments...which, if observed would benefit society far more than Johnny's two Dads.

Plain and simple, the left fears what it can not control...spiritual beliefs, free speech, you name it.

[brainlessfool]

I'm for anything that keep wemans and rug rats off the street and out of this man's way every day.
keep them home where they belong.

[skipnrocks]

I'm for anything that keep wemans and rug rats off the street and out of this man's way every day.
keep them home where they belong.

Oh boy LOL now theres another can of worms open!! 

[abnormaltoy]

I'm for anything that keep wemans and rug rats off the street and out of this man's way every day.
keep them home where they belong.

Not that it would be a change...but, you ain't gonna get none for a while.

[Doof]

.. bookmark for reply later


but as of right now.... i say yes

[WHITE_TRASH]

If the country shows sign's of hope for tomorrow then the left doesn't feel they have done their job.  They prey on fear mongering and doomsday attitudes to keep their supporters inline.  They want your support and your silence.  Vote for them and give them your money then shut up and let them show you the way because they are far smarter than anyone else out there.  Whats funny is if you put 2 libs in a room they wouldn't be friends, they'd tear each other apart....  Want proof?  Look at the current state of the democratic party.  The clintons will do anything to get back in the White House, noone is going to stand in their way.  Nobama is a tool but he stands a chance on getting the nomination.  I hope he does, for one he would destroy the clintons and two he's an idiot that'd lose his shorts int eh general election to an old man... 

[tom w.]

Without public school (or private, just not home schooling) you'll have poor social skills (or none at all).

That's a nice sweeping generalization. I never knew, until you just told me, that I had poor (if any at all) social skills..

School is more important for learning how to coexist in society, getting along, etc....

Isn't that even just a little bit of the parent's responsibility? Or are we as kids just supposed to rely on public/private schools to teach everything about everything?


Not to mention the fact that all 5 of my brothers and sisters never seemed to have a problem? My sister, besides taking care of her family, is an insurance agent, my other sister is a medical transcriptionist and realtor, my brother is the foreman on a paving crew in Las vegas, my other brother is a non-union operator, and my other other  brother just got into the laborers union a while ago.

It's just too bad they never learned how to coexist in society...

[KDXSR5]

Well... being a kid in high school, I get to meet some home school kids when they come to the high school for specialized classes like foreign language classes. Out of all the home school kids I have met, there was only one that had no social skills, but he was also "special."

I do not see where people are coming up with the idea that home school kids have no social skills, because I hang out with a few home school kids, and I have even gone wheeling with one of them a couple times. They are just like public school/private school kids, there is nothing weird about them, and they do have social skills.

One reason why there is a lot of home schooling here in Wyoming is because the state has a population of only 500,000 people. Since there is such a small population and such a large state, everyone is spread out across the state. Once you get out of the major cities/towns, its all ranch after ranch after ranch. And guess what? Those ranch people have kids too. And guess what else? They need education as well. There is a public school available to them in each county, but that school is rarely close enough for the kids to go to since Wyoming counties are huge. So that leads to a lot of home schooling, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I see nothing wrong with home schooling: they still get an equal education (in Wyoming if you home school you still have to meet the state standards); they are guaranteed an education that is on par with their parents standards (because the parents are the ones teaching); they still socialize and have social skills; and they get to make schooling so much more fun than public school.

[skipnrocks]

I think homeschooling can be a good thing, not all of them are stunted but I honestly believe that most parents arnt capable of giving the education nessisary.  The ones I have known who are successfull their parents have found ways for them to socialize often. And parents that are dedicated enough to give dirrection and teach!   I like it that wyoming has standards that the home school kids must meet.  I think thats important to making sure parents arnt slacking (I know this is a matter of perspective but I have seen some parents do a really poor job)..  I think another thing that would be great if states would allow these kids to play sports in highschools as long as they accedimically are at par or better with students who are allowed to play.  I know in my home town that kids had to be in so many classes  to participate in school activities, I think that sucks because kids in school or not everyone pays taxes that provide schooling and school programs schould be availbe for those homeschooled...

[KDXSR5]

I like it that wyoming has standards that the home school kids must meet.  I think thats important to making sure parents arnt slacking (I know this is a matter of perspective but I have seen some parents do a really poor job)..  I think another thing that would be great if states would allow these kids to play sports in highschools as long as they accedimically are at par or better with students who are allowed to play. 

I think after reading the stuff in this thread, Wyoming is ahead of other states in home schooling, because it is actually regulated a bit, and to graduate you must meet the state education standards.

Also, the homeschool kids can play sports with the public school kids. I don't even think they have to be in a class at a public school. I will ask one of my homeschool friends about public school sports when I see him next time.

[93tonkatoy]

I know in my home town that kids had to be in so many classes  to participate in school activities, I think that sucks because kids in school or not everyone pays taxes that provide schooling and school programs schould be availbe for those homeschooled...

In FL, the financing for the school system originatges in property taxes. If you live in the county, you're paying for the public school. If you are dissatisfied with the public system, you cannot take the money the state would spend on your child's education to send him/her to a better school or to home school them, that expense will come out of your own pocket. So, I don't know how it is here as far as sports activities, but, YES, it should be available for home schoolers, too.

[Doof]

so im not going to go through and read all this. but from the title i will share how i feel about public schools seeing as i just got out  at the end of the 07 school year...


the public school system is not set up for success. i feel that it dumbs down kids for the simple fact that they are FORCED to take classes that are pointless and have no way shape or form on life in general. why are there not more career orientated classes these days? and why are the few classes that are career classes getting shut down? its not okay. the school system is set up and run like a prison also. you have to be in class at a certain time, you have to ask to use the rest room, you have a certain amount of time to shuffle between classes, if your tardy your in trouble, its enclosed in a giant ass fence that you cant leave during hours or you get a cut, suspended and a ton of detention, i could go on and on. there is a consequence for everything. why is that?

i would have preferred to go to home school because i would have been able to work and make money while going to school. yeah i would still need to take the waste of time classes, but at least during the day im am using my time to do something productive and not just sit in class and learn how to cheat better on tests and learn how to get around the rules easier

[blackdiamond]

i feel that it dumbs down kids for the simple fact that they are FORCED to take classes that are pointless and have no way shape or form on life in general. why are there not more career orientated classes these days? and why are the few classes that are career classes getting shut down? its not okay. the school system is set up and run like a prison also. you have to be in class at a certain time, you have to ask to use the rest room, you have a certain amount of time to shuffle between classes, if your tardy your in trouble, its enclosed in a giant ass fence that you cant leave during hours or you get a cut, suspended and a ton of detention, i could go on and on. there is a consequence for everything.

Being forced to take classes that you see as pointless and having to follow rules (e.g. schedules, etc..) you are learning skill that are required to be a responsible person in the real world.  I have an engineering degree and I use very little of my specific information that I studied on a day to day basis, but what I learned was how to solve problems.  General classes don't always seem productive, but looking back they do make a more well rounded person.

Being on time for work is expected for most jobs so the rules at school are beginning for forming responsible habits.

I think the reason public schools have such tight rules is because so many of today's youth are seemingly in school to practice being in prison. 

"THERE IS A CONSEQUENCE FOR EVERYTHING."  It sounds like you learned at least one thing that can be applied to the real world. 

[WHITE_TRASH]

I totally agree with the BS classes statement...  WTF is the point with taking a foreign language have to do with graduating?  Its a requirement now in my old HS that you HAVE to take 2 years of a foreign language to graduate...  In my old town English is the foreign language.... 

We had to take wood working or something of the sort and I think that is a valuable class to put people that have no idea at all into.  It teaches problem solving (as pointed out by blackdiamond) and believing in yourself to be able to do what you don't think you can do. 

[DTB]

I know I tooks some classes that I thawtt I would never use the info from but know I sound smar t when I talk about histories and algabraik equazhuions

[WHITE_TRASH]

I was barely passable in history in school. Now I'm a history nerd...  Life changes I guess.   Although I STILL haven't had a use for algebra at all.  And they wouldn't let me take geometry until I had passed algebra 2 how retarded is that?  I can do a lot of geometry in my head so I would have passed it damnit!! 

[Doof]

Being forced to take classes that you see as pointless and having to follow rules (e.g. schedules, etc..) you are learning skill that are required to be a responsible person in the real world.  I have an engineering degree and I use very little of my specific information that I studied on a day to day basis, but what I learned was how to solve problems.  General classes don't always seem productive, but looking back they do make a more well rounded person.

Being on time for work is expected for most jobs so the rules at school are beginning for forming responsible habits.

idk when you graduated HS but it fully blows now. still being a kid i know first hand and can say its a waste of time. 3/4 of the time more than half the class was zoned out or sleeping. its easy to look around and see whos paying attention or whose not.  if school was made "more fun" then attendance and grades would probobly go up. the only class i liked in 4 years of HS was welding. and what do you know, it was fun, i have some confidence in myself, it taught me to solve problems on a DAILY BASIS, i was productive, we had dead lines that we had to have finished or we would be back at square one and have to start over, the teacher wasnt around in the shop half the time so you had to be responsible for your self all the time and everybody was working the whole time. other classes were a joke. i enjoyed that class so much im going to be going through the welding program at butte to get certified and possibly make a career out of it. it opened my eyes to what i could make and how bitchin i could make stuff

thats all for now...

[KDXSR5]

In my 3 years of highschool, I have only hated 2 classes. Spanish back in 9th Grade, and English in 11th Grade. And those were only because I had crappy teachers, and the classes were no fun at all. I actually don't mind school too much, plus we have an open campus were we can come and go as we wish. In my 3 years of highschool, my lowest grade has been a B. And guess what class that was in? Spanish. So if they made school fun, we will get better grades.

[Doof]

maybe its the location and size of the school...

[BLACKDOG]

 i could go on and on. there is a consequence for everything. why is that?

Um, because that is how life works?    Everything you do has consequences, whether good or bad.  Sometimes they make take a while to catch up, but they do.  

so im not going to go through and read all this. but from the title i will share how i feel about public schools seeing as i just got out  at the end of the 07 school year...


the public school system is not set up for success. i feel that it dumbs down kids for the simple fact that they are FORCED to take classes that are pointless and have no way shape or form on life in general. why are there not more career orientated classes these days? and why are the few classes that are career classes getting shut down? its not okay. the school system is set up and run like a prison also. you have to be in class at a certain time, you have to ask to use the rest room, you have a certain amount of time to shuffle between classes, if your tardy your in trouble, its enclosed in a giant ass fence that you cant leave during hours or you get a cut, suspended and a ton of detention, i could go on and on. there is a consequence for everything. why is that?

i would have preferred to go to home school because i would have been able to work and make money while going to school. yeah i would still need to take the waste of time classes, but at least during the day im am using my time to do something productive and not just sit in class and learn how to cheat better on tests and learn how to get around the rules easier

School is what you make of it, and what the teachers make of it.  It is certainly the responsibility of the teacher to promote a postive learning environment, but without the effort put forth by students, the teachers will eventually give up.  IMO, school isn't designed to force specific things into your head, but to prepare you for the real world.  It teaches you to critical thinking skills, and gives you a wide base of general knowledge, to better allow you do figure out what you want to do later in life, and allow you to function well in day to day society.  

What classes are you calling pointless and dumb?
 All those math classes?  Look at how often we use numbers, and general math.  It is everywhere, from buying gas to measuring steel.  I can't tell you how often I go into a store, and the cashier doesn't even have the basic math skills needed to make change.  

History?  You know the phrase "history repeats itself"?  Well, in my opinion it is true, and if you don't know where you came from, you're not going to have a good idea of where we are going.  Not to mention it is also a matter of honor and respect.  Our country, our world was forged by people who bled and cried, fought and died, to get us where we are today.  IMO, its a huge honor to their memory to learn what we can about them, their courage, their determination, and will to make this world a better place.  It is an opportunity to learn from their successes, their failures, their good and their bad.  

Foreign Language?  I am fully of the belief that if you come to this country, learning to speak english should be first thing on your agenda.  Many immigrants are here legally, and are trying to learn the language.  In the meantime, they still may need emergency medical care.  I mention this because you have expressed an interest in the fire service.  At some point in your career, you will come across someone who doesn't speak the same language as you.  You will be able to give them better care if you can speak the same language they do.  (I advocate spanish, because that is one of the predominate languages of CA, and it is also very common for other immigrants to learn spanish before coming to the US, because it is not full of contradictions in grammer, like english, and they know they can get along with spanish while learning english.

English?
I think we've already busted your chops about that enough  To succeed in society, the better worded you are, the better off you'll be.  Things have changed a lot over the past few generations.  No longer is the amount of work you can do a good measurement of your viability of employment, but also how well you can test.  Many public service tests have grammer and reading comprehension as part of their tests, not to mention having to fill out an application, submit a resume, and participate in an interview.  If you cannot do any of these well, (grammer, spelling, punctuation, pronunciation, etc. ) you likely won't get hired.


Now those career classes that you are talking about, at my school, we had welding, auto shop, auto body, woodworking, and computer technology.  Needless to say, there are many, many more careers than those in the world.  I too think it is a shame that the career classes are going by the wayside, especially the shop classes, but unfortunately, that is mostly due to budgets, and also the change in the world.  Even welding, mechanics, and body work is becoming more specialized and technical as technology increases and more and more legal issues raise their ugly heads.  It is a lot harder now to walk into a shop straight out of HS, and say, "hey, I took 4 years of welding, can I work for you?"  Most shops would laugh, and say, "come back when you have some certificates."  Due to the legalism of the day, it is too much of  liability for the owners.  I'm not saying its right, but that is what the world is coming to.

As for the time structure of school, and having to ask to go to the bathroom, how do you think the real world is going to work?  You'll have start times, end times, and break times for pretty much any career you have.  No, you don't have to answer to anyone if you get up and go pee every 20 minutes, but that structure of school is designed to show you how to manage your time.  When you don't adhere to your work schedule, and get up and pee every 20 minutes, you are robbing your employer.  They pay you with the understanding that you'll be at work at 9, break at 1030, lunch at 12, break at 300, off at 5.  When you extend your breaks to 20minutes, you've gone outside the agreement.  When you get up to go pee every 20 minutes, you've gone outside that agreement.  When you BS with a coworker for 10 minutes, you've gone outside the agreement.  This isn't to say that you should spend your life working as a mindless drone, and that work can't be fun, but you have to consider the effect of your actions on your work.  

Now, your HS may have been different from mine in schedule (I doubt by much) but my classes were 55 minutes each, with an 8 minute passing period.  Lunch was 42 minutes long.  We started at 755, and got out at 240  Mabye its just me, but that seems to be plenty of time to hit the between classes, because we all know high school kids don't at school, unless it is a dire emergency  

BTW, I graduated in 2003, so I'm not so far off.  My brother graduated in 2007 as well, and he had pretty much the same exact experience I did.  I don't think school has changed much in 5 years.

[Doof]

well you basically just shut me down.. touche

what you said made a lot of sense and made me think back. that pretty much took out 95% of the two legs i was standing on out (if that makes sense)... anyways

good write up 

[BLACKDOG]

well you basically just shut me down.. touche

what you said made a lot of sense and made me think back. that pretty much took out 95% of the two legs i was standing on out (if that makes sense)... anyways

good write up 

  thanks
I never was a huge fan of HS, had some classes I liked, some I didn't care about, and several that I hated.  I caused some problems, skipped a lot.  Got good grades surprisingly, but only worked to my full potential in a few classes.   You could see my mindset change from middle school to HS.  I had like 105-108% averages in my classes in MS, started going down in Jr High, and kinda leveled out, and fluxuated in HS.    Its the thinking back on it, after you've spent a little time out, that really makes you think about how it really was, compared to the life you have now

[93tonkatoy]

...I honestly believe that most parents arnt capable of giving the education nessisary.  The ones I have known who are successfull their parents have found ways for them to socialize often. And parents that are dedicated enough to give dirrection and teach!...

I would have to disagree with the first highlight. Most parents ARE educated and intelligent enough to educate their children. At some point the Parent will reach the limit of their education, forcing to choose between letting someone else continue, or, (and this would do nothing but better the child, parent AND society) learn the subject matter they are having to instruct the child in.

Now, the MAIN problem with most parents and homeschooling, is the second highlight. Most parents do not have the dedication required to raise their kids, let alone educate them. We, as parents, get so wrapped up in the rat race of life, that the kids end up raising themselves, then we wonder why they do stupid, disrespectful, and hurtful things to themselves and to others. I am also guilty of this, have seen it in myself, and am trying to make a change for the better.

[BLACKDOG]

I would have to disagree with the first highlight. Most parents ARE educated and intelligent enough to educate their children. At some point the Parent will reach the limit of their education, forcing to choose between letting someone else continue, or, (and this would do nothing but better the child, parent AND society) learn the subject matter they are having to instruct the child in.

Now, the MAIN problem with most parents and homeschooling, is the second highlight. Most parents do not have the dedication required to raise their kids, let alone educate them. We, as parents, get so wrapped up in the rat race of life, that the kids end up raising themselves, then we wonder why they do stupid, disrespectful, and hurtful things to themselves and to others. I am also guilty of this, have seen it in myself, and am trying to make a change for the better.

I'm kinda in the middle on this.  It seems that the people that homeschool their kids either come from one of two camps:  those who are extremely intelligent, and dedicated, and those that are trying to help their kid take the easy way out, so they do the bare minimum, if that to meet the standards.  My cousin went through her senior year of HS this way (got pregnant and dropped out)  and lets just say my aunt was not quite qualified to do the job.  I could go on with other examples, but thats just my personal experience with it

[KDXSR5]

It seems that the people that homeschool their kids either come from one of two camps:  those who are extremely intelligent, and dedicated, and those that are trying to help their kid take the easy way out, so they do the bare minimum, if that to meet the standards. 

Or those that public school is not an option for, such as those ranch kids that I spoke of a while ago. Sometimes the parents are not the best qualified for the job, but its the only option if the parents want the kids to be schooled at all.