Topic: battery talk

[jimbo74]

AGM batteries (Optima, Exide Orbital, NAPA Orbital, Oddessy, etc) have both advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages:

Very resistant to vibrations-this means that bouncing around on the trail is not likely to cause internal shorts leading to a longer lifespan

Starved electrolyte design-this means they can't spill if you flop. Standard maintenance free batteries are pretty good these days about it too, but nevertheless the AGM will be better. When you flop you will have enough to worry about without having a battery leaking all over you

Low internal resistance-this means that they need lower voltage to overcome the resistance and charge. The end result is a faster rate of charge without internal damage. I don't recommend using the alternator to recharge a discharged battery (say from winching), but let's face it...in practicality you're going to have to do it sometimes.

Low self discharge rate-this means if your rig sits for longer periods between rides it is not as likely to be dead when you go there.

Disadvantages:

Low energy density-because of the 6 pack design they cannot pack as much lead into a givn footprint as compared to a standard lead acid battery. If you look at the Group 31 deep cycles you can see this. The Optima is rated at 75 amp hours of capacity while a Group 31 wet acid battery is going to be in the 105-125 amp hour rating. Good thing they recharge faster, huh?

Sealed design-the same properties that make the battery spillproof also make them impossible to add electrolyte to. If you cause the battery to outgas from charging at a high rate (sometimes you have to) you cannot replace the lost electrolyte. The specific gravity is forever fawked. The result is lost capacity and performance.

Unforgivability-I know you will read lots of stories about people running the orbital style batteries stone dead and then recharging them and having them be good as new. 10 years ago this might have been the case, but demand for the orbital style batteries has really gone up both from the consumer and the government. The quality of the battery and purity of the lead has suffered as a result and the new Orbital batteries are not nearly as good. If you let the battery run dead from sitting don't expect it to come back. Proper recharging techniques are very important.

Charge algorithm-Most modern wet-acid battery chargers will do ok with an AGM battery, but they do charge slightly different than wet batteries. While ont nearly as complex as a true gelled electrolyte battery, particular attention needs to be paid to the charging voltages. GM alternators specifically can charge at a scary high voltage for these batteries. Sure, it's within spec, but that doesn't mean it's good. The same goes for manual chargers. Good voltage and current limiting is important. I personally recommend Del-Tran chargers and the higher end Schumacher chargers.

The cool thing about the Exide Orbitals is that they very often come off the same Johnson Controls assembly line that makes the Optima batteries. The difference is only a sticker and the warranty.

Other than terminals, marine batteries are EXACTLY the same as the yellow top deep cycle optimas with a much longer warranty. Why is the warranty less? Because marine batteries are seasonal use items so their maintenance usually lacks in the off season. Point and case is that Optima blue top batteries only have an 18 month free replacement period.

A battery is not going to fix a charging system or parasitic draw problem. It's also not the solution to proper maintenance.

this is actually an editorial from someone else that i paraphrased. but i do agree with all the points above according to what i have learned in the auto industry, if you have anything to add or contradict, please post

[boggerunner]

i have a yellow top optima and an exide orbital, and ive killed both twice, but i love the warrenty

[KDXSR5]

Awesome post! This gives me new insight as to what battery to buy. Thanks!

[jimbo74 [OP]]

ive killed 3 agm batteries, 1 yellow top, and 2 orbitals, but i ran them down and when i went ot recharge them, they wouldn't hold... they were all in storage though... oh well

i went with a regular battery this time around because technology has coem a long way, and a wet cell has more capacity, and more power per its size, are pretty isolated to the elements, and are way cheaper.... my autozone battery was like $80 and has something like 1000 cranking amps

[boggerunner]

mine died cause they went dead in the winter cause of a drain in my elec. system and i didnt charge them for a couple of weeks, but ive learned my lesson and i make sure to keep a good charge on them at all times

[lucky7]

Yellow optima the only way to go.

[jimbo74 [OP]]

see i had a yellow optima and it was cool, but the thing with the deep cycle batteries is although they have enough power to start, that isnt a strongpoint for them, starting really strains a dc

[lucky7]

I swapped out my motor out and in the process created a vacum leak i turned that thing over for two days so pisssed off
when i finaly got it running i had realized ihad never cherged the battery i was impressed.But i also run my radiator fan full
time tranny cooler for the autoalmost full time and my stereo .Never has it left me stranded even when i rubbed a hole in one cell it lasted 6 months.

[DanS]

Great info,
DanS

[topar]

I have had three red top optima batteries.  Had problems with all of them holding charges and not being able to recharge them.  Most people I know that have had all say they will not go back to them.  I run interstate batteries now and have not had any problems.

[unclejpl4x4]

i have a red top optima for 4-5yrs  no problems yet

[topar]

Yeah but you are in Jersey and its scared it will get concrete shoes 

[Plekto]

I gotta vote for the biggest oversize normal battery possible.  Yeah, they aren't great upside-down or whatnot, but they work when it's cold and are cheap to replace.

[unclejpl4x4]

all i have 2 say is in arksaw bubba had a acid  drip on exaust problem/ smoke/ bad smell    from the hills

[Rockcrawlintoy]

i got an optima around 4-5 years ago. its been killed dead a few times the latest being dead for over a month and i was able to bring it back with a the help of lilbuddy and a trickle charger. i will be buying another optima style battery again

[TheCookieMonster]

ive got a red top optima and its went dead after about 6-8 months of sittin in my truck when it was broke ....then i took it out, trickel charged it on 2 amps overnight and wala it works great again.......thats how a lot of people kill the optimas is charging them to fast with too many amps....let them charge at low amps for a longer period of time and they work well

[topar]

All I have is a trickle charger guess they just don't like me 

[Duffil]

Jim, if you are going to copy someone else's research, you need to let people know where you copied it from.  It's called plagiarism.  I know you don't type like that, so where did it come from?

[kneedownnate]

.....thats how a lot of people kill the optimas is charging them to fast with too many amps....let them charge at low amps for a longer period of time and they work well

That's where there are a lot of discrepancies.  You can ask one manufacturer of a gel battery how to charge them and they say fast and hard, ask another and they say trickle.  I have a yellow top optima that's probably going on 7 years old, haven't charged it at all in a year and it's still holding pretty well. 

As for them not being packed with enough lead to have more memory, my yellow top is the heaviest starting battery I've ever toted, and I handle a shitpile of batteries every summer.  Wet cells seem to be more likely to come back from a low charge much better with a trickle charge, while the gels have a better chance of coming back if you charge them high to get them up fast, then switch over to trickle. 

[*ROKTOY*]

Here is a link to how to charge an Optima  http://www.batteriesareus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_46&products_id=157

[Rocksurfer]

I always loose my mh's batteries due to lack of use and the poor state of todays lead batteries. Right now it is sitting at my daughters house with dead batteries, she says she's been starting it but I know better. I think I'm going 6v, 6v is a much better battery just to start with and by linking 2 together I'll be back to 12v. They sure are expensive though.

[TheCookieMonster]

I always loose my mh's batteries due to lack of use and the poor state of todays lead batteries. Right now it is sitting at my daughters house with dead batteries, she says she's been starting it but I know better. I think I'm going 6v, 6v is a much better battery just to start with and by linking 2 together I'll be back to 12v. They sure are expensive though.

ya thats a good way to go....its just like rv's run their power systems, by linking them in parallel or series to make stronger 12v or 24v systems...you just have to have enough room to put them

[kneedownnate]

And know which way to properly hook them up  

[kneedownnate]

Here is a link to how to charge an Optima  http://www.batteriesareus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_46&products_id=157

Nice link   Kinda backs up what I've been doing for the last few years.  On a slow day I may only charge about 20 batteries during the season, usually closer to twice that if not more.  You'd think I'd be ripped cause they're not all start batts either, but I'm still a weakling.

[jimbo74 [OP]]

i didnt plajarize it, i made a note saying it wasnt mine, it was actually paraphrased and i slightly edited it from a personal message i had with a member on pirate about batteries. i edited out some parts he had mentioned to me in detail though about a plan i had. i do agree with what he said though. and if there is anything mroe to add on the subject, feel free to do so. thats why i posted it.