Topic: New Tundra Desiel Dually!!!

[toyotanner]

I think you're onto something red.  My dad showed me that video and was saying it seemed like an issue of harmonics, like at that particular speed it caused a bad harmonics issue with the toyota, but like you said it could have also had something to do with them removing the reciever and some ridgidity.

Either way, like has already been said toyota will back up their products like few other manufacturers, and in a way the big 3 could learn from.  Toyota sets the bar extremely low for recalls, sometimes under 10!  When they recalled the last style of tundras/sequoias for the spindles they'd had less than 10 failures but wanted to cover their bases.  How many fords burned up while ford refused to admit they had wiring issues?  A non driving, non running truck in a driveway should NEVER ignite it's own fire.

yes it should the truck has realized its worthless and spontaniously combusts lol (only cause its a ford)

[red]

or ford with their 6.0L diesel issues haha thats definatly not standing behind their product. i remember the spontanious combustion fords from a few years ago hahahaha!

[te51levin]

Sadly, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I have a hard time believing that toyota would be dropping their quality standards, a lot easier believing the fault lies with locals who don't posess japanese pride. 

From what I've heard, this shouldn't be an issue.  I think it's common knowledge that every worker on a Toyota assembly line can stop the line at any time to fix a problem before it gets passed along to the consumer, and Toyota makes a real effort to find faults and problems with their vehicles BEFORE they reach the public.  This is the way things are done in their plants whether in Japan or North America.  I have to believe that everybody involved in putting Toyotas together knows that quality is what keeps their product selling, and that they have to do whatever they can to keep that quality as high possible.

The old "fat and razy Amellican" worker stereotype (remembering an old SNL sketch here) is a classic, and not without reason, but I don't think it can be universally applied to every American assembly line worker, or every American assembly line.

I have to suspect that Toyota is planning some sort of heavy duty, dually, Diesel type shenanigans sometime in the near future.  They have always played this game where they reveal some show car or concept car or spy shotor artist's rendering and then play real coy about it, saying "we are considering" or "we may" or "we haven't decided to" or "this is just for research and may never happen".  It always seems to make it to production.  Toyota has been talking about Diesels and duallies since before the new Tundra was released.  I think there's something big coming down the line real soon...

[94MtnYote]

 Quote from Petersen 4wheel and offroad in regard to the diesel dually Tundra..
"Unfortunately our sources told us that although a diesel is in the works,the massive 8.0L Hino engine isn't likely to be the production candidate"
 Damn, that would be sweet though!
 
What about the idea of the new rag topped FJ cruiser in the same issue of 4wheel and off road?

[dizzydevil]

 
What about the idea of the new rag topped FJ cruiser in the same issue of 4wheel and off road?

Cool the soccer moms will have a rag top so they can get a better view of the mall......!

[topar]

My brother works for Toyota Motorsports.  I will ask him if he has heard anything about a diesel.

[4.3 headache]

I must be bored, since i read all 3 pages of that.

now i feel compelled to ad my

It would seem to me that Toyota is boldy making a statement to potential truckbuyers as well as domestic truck manufacturers

"look at our truck !!! it's better, we're the best, we have the best quality, go the fastest and are giving you (the brainwashed overpaid fat lazy american worker )what you want more horsepower than you know what to do with!!!

Anyhow, what made toyota into the powerhouse they are today is the product quality, fuel economy and the affordability of their vehicles, in the past!Mmy personal observation is that Toyota is straying from their original principals that made them what they are today

Affordable ?? hardly, economical?? no better than comparable domestic models ,dependable?? well you won't see me trade in my Chevy for a diesel Tundra...same goes for many happy Ford and Dodge owners..


They probably have enough of a customer loyalty base to make a Tundra with a diesel and sell. My question. Why.?? is their enough of a demand for it?

I do not picture tens of thousands of domestic diesel truck owners standing in line to trade theirs off for an unproven Toyota diesel.
I guess Toyota really wants that #1 spot .

too bad they're getting away from what made them popular.

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

Good point there headache, not to argue with your statement more like add to it. 

       In every business there is going to be compation.  That's what makes the car companies evolve into comming up with more power, better gas millage, and different features to make driving more convenient. 

The domestic car companies need this compation from Toyota like Toyota's needed it from them from the beginning.  It forces the company that is lagging behind the others to improve, come out with something better for the next year.  Take Honda for example with the v-tec engine they designed. here you have another fuel economy car company that was lacking in power against the domestic vehicles... now why would they wanna make a car that goes fast when there is already cars that have gobs of horse power and torque from a V8?

Should they just set back and keep making the same car over and over again for the people that want fuel economy?  Or should they redesign how the combustion engine valve train is setup and maybe gain more power and keep the fuel economy and grab the attention of both sides of the crowd?  That's what they did and now most every major car company uses a variable valve train system and are getting more power out of a motor that is a 1/2 to a 1/4 the size of the big v8 (and yes i know they dont produce the torque the big V8 do but that besides the point). 

With Toyota comming out with the new 5.7 that Chevy has been using for years and to make the motor produce a substantially more power than the original 5.7 in the first year the truck is produced? Do you really think that Chevy is gonna set back and keep making that same engine produce the same amount of power? Or are they gonna pull their head out of their ass and try to come up with something better? 

The big three need this diesel tundra to come out and dominate them like the gas tundra is doing. That way maybe/hopefully one of these companies can stumble across a new v-tec system per say, and make the diesel engine more efficient more powerful and half the size all at the same time. 
 

[red]

agreed on most of those points. gm stopped using the 5.7L 350 back in 2000 and was a single valve design (1 intake 1 exhaust), older technology and a completely differant motor design. takes almost nothing to wake the 350 up.

with the diesel upgrades look at what audi has done in the thread i started "even meets commifornia emissions". small diesel engine thats incredibly clean and powerfull, the fuel economy estimate was done on the autoban so forget 70mph fuel economy testing, would be higher than what was stated.

[kneedownnate]

They probably have enough of a customer loyalty base to make a Tundra with a diesel and sell.

  exacree!  It's not so much that they'll be pulling big 3 owners away, as they'll have more toyota owners considering entering a market they're never, or atleast rarely ever ventured into.

That said, I've known and even worked with loyal big 3 owners.  The type who say "toyota doesn't make a product I'll ever buy", then seen them change their mind with just one thing.... a test drive!  One particular coworker swore he'd never buy anything other than fords cause "he'd owned them all his life and they never did him wrong!", then he drove a toyota solara and at how smooth and refined it was compared to the fords he was test driving too.  He bought it soon after and never shut up about how much he loved it, and hasn't said anything about buying a ford again.

[4.3 headache]

i'm not knocking Toyota, i own 4 of them, I believe each manufacturer has it's strong points, i'm not sold on the tundra's.
they run great but an equally equipped domestic is much cheaper ( in bakersfield anyway)
toyota is not ahead of the competition in every category by any means. they have a great platform and powertrain with gobs of power, but it is still new and relatively unproven.

It just seems to me that their sales campaigns are overly aggressive toward american manufacturers. I wonder if there won't be a backlash from american consumers if they take the top spot away from GM.

[kneedownnate]

It just seems to me that their sales campaigns are overly aggressive toward american manufacturers. I wonder if there won't be a backlash from american consumers if they take the top spot away from GM.

Possibly, but these tactics were employed by the big 3 toward each other loooooong before toyota got into the markets...

[skipnrocks]

Each one does it sellin their strong points, because you really cant have it all and none do, just depends on what your plannin on doin with your rig!

[te51levin]

... an equally equipped domestic is much cheaper ...

True.  But I don't want cheaper, I want better.  That is what sets Toyota apart - you may pay more to buy it, but you pay less to operate it.  It works more of the time and you lose less - far less - when you sell it.

Price is what you pay.  Value is what you get.  I don't get in my low price every day and drive it to work...

 

[4.3 headache]

I agree 100% with that statement ,  BUT here in the U.S.A. we're obviously not that concerned about quality, if we were companies like walmart and trail-gear would not be in business!! 

Sadly enough those companies will cost us more in the long run

[kneedownnate]

BUT here in the U.S.A. we're obviously not that concerned about quality, if we were companies like walmart and trail-gear would not be in business!!   

Sadly, so few people will do any research on companies like those, and even if they did they're too often groggy from the cheap price and don't want to believe what they hear/read anyway. 

[te51levin]

BUT here in the U.S.A. we're obviously not that concerned about quality, if we were companies like walmart and trail-gear would not be in business!! 

One of my favorite quotes: ‘There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply.  Those who buy on price alone are this man’s lawful prey.’

Sadly, so few people will do any research on companies like those, and even if they did they're too often groggy from the cheap price and don't want to believe what they hear/read anyway. 

Bingo.  It always amazes me how many people claim to want the best, buy a new Toyota, and then go to Wal-Mart for everything from toothpaste to tires.  When the car needs a repair they head to AutoZone for the part.  Gee, folks, do you think maybe there's a reason Toyota didn't put AutoZone parts on the car to begin with?  How long do you think a Camry would stay running if every part on it came from Advance or Pep Boys or Kragen?

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

Here is a little update and some more info on the truck that is going to dominate. 

http://www.trucktrend.com/future/concepts/163_0802_custom_toyota_tundra_hd/index.html

[4.3 headache]

well if they use the hino the're already behind, ford chevy and dodge are all in the 350hp/ 650tq range

[skipnrocks]

I agree if their going to do it they need to go for broke and come out with something bigger and better, unless that motor gets 25mpg its not seeming like a step forward.

[red]

using a 13" ring gear in the axle thats rated for a max of 35,000 pounds with a dually? need to step it up there.

also need to get the price figured out as well. the cheapest tundra i've seen at a lot (new) was listed at 41,000, not the fully loaded model but nice. fully loaded i've seen listed at 55,000 for a tundra 1/2 ton, thats as much as a fully loaded chevy/gmc 1 ton crew cab dually with the duramax/allison combo, not much less than a dodge or ford equally equipped vehicle. diesel engine usually runs a premium of about 5k dollars with the good tranny behind it over an equivelant gasser model, plus about an extra 4k per additional weight rating (1/2, 3/4, 1 ton). so going off of current figures that would put the tundra 1 ton dually fully loaded with the diesel at 68,000. less power, most likely less fuel economy being an 8L motor compared to a 6.9L, 6.4L, and 6.6L, and a wider gear spacing in the tranny because of fewer gears (or a loss of granny gear which would absolutely kill the heavy towing capability). with that price tag and those features i dont see it pulling very many people from the big 3 who actually use the truck for what its built for (towing).

[kneedownnate]

Have to get te51levin to see how much they run on their lot since he works at lithia toyota. 

[94MtnYote]

well if they use the hino the're already behind, ford chevy and dodge are all in the 350hp/ 650tq range

 The article did state that with a little tuning the power could be bumped up an additional 200 ponies and 400 ft pounds.
 

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

you bet ya toyo, I think the theory " not replacement for displacement" is gonna work for toyota this time.  That's at least a liter bigger than the competition meaning more room for more fuel and air to go which = more power to stomp out Chevy   sorry to break it to you like this red.

[skipnrocks]

The article did state that with a little tuning the power could be bumped up an additional 200 ponies and 400 ft pounds.
 

Again something every other diesel can do. Sorry!

[te51levin]

Have to get te51levin to see how much they run on their lot since he works at lithia toyota. 

Oh hell no, I'm absolutely not playing that game  .  Pricing information is available on any manufacturer's website anyway.  There's too much variation with configuration, options, etc for anyone to say "a Tundra costs $X" with any meaning.

[red]

The article did state that with a little tuning the power could be bumped up an additional 200 ponies and 400 ft pounds.
 

all of their competition can do that with ease like skipinrocks said.

pat before you go talkin about chevy's read up about the hino diesel thats been in production for years (the motor they used). main complaint is that its extremely anemic, has no power. before they can go making claims that "with tweaking we can get another 400ft/lbs of torque" out of that motor they need to do it and see if it actually holds together. the 6.6L duramax will hold together with no reliability or strength upgrades at 1000ft/lbs, just like the 7.3L powerstroke and the 5.9L cummins.

go to a drag strip where there are alot of diesels, expecially in an area where diesels are swapped into the race or sled pulling vehicles. you'll see 7.3L powerstrokes, cummins 6bt's both the 12 and 24 valve, you'll see the 6.6L duramax, a few 8.1L cummins motors that have been swapped in, i saw an old detroit 2 stroke that was put in a reg cab long bed chevy like my old 81 pickup and a few other diesels but those stick out. i've never seen or heard of a hino at either a sled pull or drag race. if you can "easily" get 1,000ft/lbs of torque out if it it shouldnt be hard to get 2,000, or beat just over 2,280ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels (currently the most for a daily driven truck, duramax LLY 6.6L thats far from stock). so why arent they used in these competitions if they're so powerfull with minor tweaking? bull crap claim of "minor tweaking" on their part? looks and sounds like it. havent heard claims from gm, ford, dodge, audi, that with "minor tweaking" you can reach 1,000ft/lbs of torque. gm can do it, ford can, dodge can, audi's v12 diesel at lamans is right around there(that same motor is going into a few of their vehicles beginning next year).

kinda like their tow rating with the tundra. "the new tundra's brakes will stop a 10,000 pound load faster than any of the competition." take the trailer brakes off (which you cant safely do with an 8k or heavier load without a high risk of jack knifing). anybody that tows that size load or bigger knows that trailer brakes are your main stopping force. i'll take the real life tests over the paper tests and demonstrations.

[skipnrocks]

Well put!  Im all for pride in a brand, but be proud for what it is!

[Not A Toy]

*slaps red* what do you do read articles then cut and paste it on here? your a real know it all. theres no hinos running at the pulls because they produce so much power that there isn't a chain or coupler on earth that can hold the truck to the sled. Hino motors are what power the space shuttle and it produces a lot of boost. ha ha red its fun giving you man dont take it serious tho. pat says your a good guy so Ill take his word for it. when you getting shipped out?


Patric we need to build me some packs this weekend. if you dont get your gears that is. if you want help putting the gears in I want to help

[te51levin]

i've never seen or heard of a hino at either a sled pull or drag race.

Interesting, but I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in that sort of observation.  Hinos aren't exactly under every rock, and people tend to buy, modify, and build things that they are familiar with, that have been done before, and that they know they can get parts and aftermarket support for.  If Hino sells only medium-duty commercial trucks, hasn't been here in the US for decades, and doesn't sell in huge numbers (these are all assumptions I'm making), they will not be a popular choice for modification or transplant into other vehicles.  The fact that you haven't seen them there is no indication that they're not reliable, can't be modified, can't make power, etc.  It just means that unless word gets out that this is THE engine to have, nobody will bother messing with them.  People will generally stick with what they know, or what their truck came with.

  (and worth it)