Topic: New Tundra Desiel Dually!!!

[dizzydevil]

i will hold my excitement till it is on the showroom floor!

[kneedownnate]

I've said it before, but I think if toyota were truly serious about this they'd get the hp/torque situation figured out, beit through a new engine or revamping a hino engine.  For the sake of having a truck for shows, there's no reason to spend hundreds of thousands or millions on engineering and r&d for an engine for something that's still up in the air.  Leave that to the big 3 

[DTB]

there's no reason to spend hundreds of thousands or millions on engineering and r&d for an engine for something that's still up in the air.  Leave that to the big 3 

good point nate

[toyotanner]

skeet.

[kneedownnate]

skeet.

[toyotanner]

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take off that grill guard and them lights on the top i'd mob it

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

mild tuneing from any of their competition (gm ford dodge) puts them around 800-850ft/lbs of torque. toyota still has work to do to be competative.

How do you figure that :edit: 200 ft lbs would be a mild tuning dude?  the biggest chip that edge puts out for cummins gives it 100 hp and 250 ft lbs.  really toyotas not that far behind in power only 50 hp and 50 ft lbs difference.

[red]

not talking about horse power pat. with a work vehicle, what the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are designed for (heavy towing) torque is what matters. the motor could crank out only 50 hp or could crank out 500 hp, if there is little torque when it comes to towing a load it wont do it. horse power will determine how hard you hit something, torque will tell you how far your going to push it.

a chip is mild tuning for modern diesels, more tuneing would be changing intercoolers, upgradeing the turbo (or turboes), upgradeing the tranny, head studs, etc. most chips do not require upgradeing anything else on the vehicle.

[red]

just stateing that toyota will need to be competative to win anybody from the big 3 diesels. similar torque, similar towing capability, a strong enough frame, truck bed, and tailgate (major work needed on the bed and tailgate for the tundra, put a 4wheeler in the bed and many people are complaining of dents from the weight). good suspension in the rear to be able to handle 20,000 pounds of weight from a trailer with the proper setup (and no its not uncommon for that kinda weight and more to be pulled behind the modern 1 ton dually's). at least the fuel economy of the latest powerstroke which is the worst of the big 3, and either an auto 6 speed or manual 6 speed (good gear spaceing, overdrive, and low range) that is sturdy enough for that kinda weight. dont need both an auto and manual that can do it (look at dodge especially here) but need one or the other.

[dizzydevil]

How do you figure that :edit: 200 ft lbs would be a mild tuning dude?  the biggest chip that edge puts out for cummins gives it 100 hp and 250 ft lbs.  really toyotas not that far behind in power only 50 hp and 50 ft lbs difference.

I think what he was saying is that even with the best chip you will barley be able to squeeze 800 ft. lb of torque out of any of the big 3 diesels, the stock ratings from Toyota are pretty good ( if that motor is the one they stick with, if they even produce this truck) and not far behind the big 3.
 With all the problems ford is having with powerstroke ( both with the 6.0 and with the fact that they may not be using a powerstroke anylonger) and the Isuzu...whoops i mean the Chevy having its share of issues, if Toyota could produce a reliable  , which is what they are know for, diesel with comparable hp and torque (even a little less) and make sure it was strong enough for use as a 1 ton, i think a lot of people would jump at it. As far as the programmers and tuning go, i am sure that if Toyota comes out with something the aftermarket will not be far behind!

just my

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

sorry i ment 200 ft lbs of torque. SO if a chip is considered mild tuning then why is it that these chips cause the engines to have to be rebuilt sooner than what a diesel should be? (besides that people race and beat on these trucks hard) Chips change shift points, boost controls, fuel all that stuff is modified and reprogrammed from what they are reliably set at from stock. If that was considered a mild tuning than why aren't they putting reprogrammed systems in them from the get go to say they are better than the compition? I would say that mild tuning would be intake and exhaust and maybe fuel delivery (all in which doesn't void the warranty like most chips do) just like any other "mild tuning" done to a combustion engine.

Also, you can bet that edge, bully dog, etc will be comming out with all the goodies for the toyota that they produce now for the big 3. (We called edge the other day and they're in the process of making a chip for the new tundras!) Even still if the toyota is 50 of each hp and ft lbs below the compition with the chip, the quality that toyota brings might just out way that extra 50 of each that they are lacking. Cause really who is gonna brag that they're got 50 more ft lbs of torque when they are over the 500 ft lb mark?  that really is nothing for diesels.

 

[dizzydevil]

sounds familiar

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

I think what he was saying is that even with the best chip you will barley be able to squeeze 800 ft. lb of torque out of any of the big 3 diesels, the stock ratings from Toyota are pretty good ( if that motor is the one they stick with, if they even produce this truck) and not far behind the big 3.
 With all the problems ford is having with powerstroke ( both with the 6.0 and with the fact that they may not be using a powerstroke anylonger) and the Isuzu...whoops i mean the Chevy having its share of issues, if Toyota could produce a reliable  , which is what they are know for, diesel with comparable hp and torque (even a little less) and make sure it was strong enough for use as a 1 ton, i think a lot of people would jump at it. As far as the programmers and tuning go, i am sure that if Toyota comes out with something the aftermarket will not be far behind!

just my

Ah you beat me to it... we pretty much said the same thing man haha

[red]

I think what he was saying is that even with the best chip you will barley be able to squeeze 800 ft. lb of torque out of any of the big 3 diesels, the stock ratings from Toyota are pretty good ( if that motor is the one they stick with, if they even produce this truck) and not far behind the big 3.
 With all the problems ford is having with powerstroke ( both with the 6.0 and with the fact that they may not be using a powerstroke anylonger) and the Isuzu...whoops i mean the Chevy having its share of issues, if Toyota could produce a reliable  , which is what they are know for, diesel with comparable hp and torque (even a little less) and make sure it was strong enough for use as a 1 ton, i think a lot of people would jump at it. As far as the programmers and tuning go, i am sure that if Toyota comes out with something the aftermarket will not be far behind!

just my

thats why i stated that toyota needs to be competative. yes the aftermarket will tinker with the motor as they do with all the others i'd be shocked and dissapointed if they didnt. competition is a great thing, without it there would be no or minimal upgrades/changes.

with the best chip barely able to squeeze out 800ft/lbs of torque might wanna double check that. the lower end chips make about 60hp and 150ft/lbs of torque for any of the big 3 (and i agree the 6.0L powerstroke is a boat anchor). base line is 640ft/lbs of torque roughly at the wheels so with a lower end chip that puts the engine as cranking out 790ft/lbs of torque. the banks 6 gun does not require any other upgrades to protect the vehicle drivetrain and quotes making 330ft/lbs of torque over stock with no other upgrades.

the duramax issues have basicly been eliminated, like any other motor when it 1st came out had injector problems and an overheating issue. now, standard repairs on the duramax for 150,000 miles are glow plugs, filters, and oil (not talking about anything but the motor). the 6.0 repair list for the 1st 25,000 miles is huge and costly, the 5.9L cummins is like the 03+duramax motors, simple and inexpensive with the exception of glow plugs (cummins uses an intake air heater).

with the statement that chips are requireing the motors to be rebuilt sooner than stock, like with any other mod it depends on how its driven. i could take the 327 in my blazer in stock form and kill it in a few thousand miles (or any motor/vehicle for that matter), or take care of it and have it last for hundreds of thousands of miles. what kills any diesel quickly and what most of the lower end chips dont cover is the exhaust gas temperatures. get too hot for more than a certain amount of time (temp and time varies with each motor) then you will kill the motor very quickly and require a rebuild.

[Yota87Truck]

All I have to say is: TOYOTA ROCKS and that tundra kicks ace

[skipnrocks]

All I have to say is: TOYOTA ROCKS and that tundra kicks ace

I like the new tundras too their a huge step up from their predisessor, but arnt they having big problems with the motor and trannys?

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

the motor was a cam issue in machining process. Cams where breaking and destroying the motors. But good old toyota said that if this happens to your tundra have it towed into your nearest dealership and we'll over night you a motor and replace it. Also red was sayin that with towing big loads was causing the block to crack... i never heard of this one and would like to see a link relating to it. But you have to expect some problems being that this is the first production year of the tundra, I would be consered about buying a first year domestic truck but you know toyota will have all the little problems recalled soon enough

[red]

i havent heard of the tranny problems, heard many complaints about the bed and tailgate though being made of too thin of material and being damaged from the weight of even a 350cc 4wheeler. cam problem has been fixed though and only heard a handfull of cases about the block cracks, might have been a defective batch like the cams were.

[skipnrocks]

They still have a little ways to go.  I saw a frame strength test, and a handling test and it was a ways behind the american trucks. But if they beef up the frame it would solve most of these problems..

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

heard many complaints about the bed and tailgate though being made of too thin of material and being damaged from the weight of even a 350cc 4wheeler.

See dude and i think that one is just ignorance to not securely tie down ATVs and what not.  I'm sure the sheet metal is no thiner than anyother Toyota truck out there and that has never been a heated topic that the sheet metal is too thin when it comes to carring cargo.

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

They still have a little ways to go.  I saw a frame strength test, and a handling test and it was a ways behind the american trucks. But if they beef up the frame it would solve most of these problems..

I also say that video on you tube and from what the guys at our local dealer ship said is that they took the tow package off of the tundra frame used in that demonstration which took out the rears main support. Also they said that there is very few tundras that dont come with the tow receiver factory.

[skipnrocks]

Ill have to look it up, but one was a deflection test with two frames torqued under like 400 pounds of pressure, the f150 frame deflected less than an inch and the tundra close to 4, and then they took it to the stagered whoop track with the f150 and silverado, and the flex in the frame made it almost imposable to stay on the course...  Is that the same one?   Im not tryin to bash tundras,  I think that geting a few bugs out and I wouldnt mind having one.

[Fearofrunner [OP]]

Ya that's the one... they have quite a few demonstrations like that but i'm thinking that's kind of  a ford bias test done there.  Now the bed bounce is a real issue that is just plain nasty how bad the tundra bed jumps.  I think they'll be changing that one in the near future

[skipnrocks]

I was reading somewhere, maybe in four wheeler mag that the tundra frame is only fully boxed in areas and c in others.  Box it all and it would help alot I would think..

[red]

Ya that's the one... they have quite a few demonstrations like that but i'm thinking that's kind of  a ford bias test done there.  Now the bed bounce is a real issue that is just plain nasty how bad the tundra bed jumps.  I think they'll be changing that one in the near future

very ford biased test, notice the speed they selected for the rough road test at 28mph. any, and i mean any pickup bed at a certain speed will bounce like that.

with the bed/tailgate thats not just from a improperly secured 4wheeler. when i was working at midland powersports we loaded a kawasaki (700 or 660 cant remember) into an 07 tundra, brand new about a month old. set the ramps up the same as we always did and slowly drove the 4wheeler up to load it. front wheels got on the tailgate and already started to bend, got up into the bed and could see the lines of the wheel tracks. we took the 4wheeler out and the guy went to the dealership to have it repaired under warranty. service department told him that it was a common problem they were encountering (lots of people in midland have 4wheelers and such).

[skipnrocks]

very ford biased test, notice the speed they selected for the rough road test at 28mph. any, and i mean any pickup bed at a certain speed will bounce like that.

You say its bias cause ford sponcered it?  They all tested the same peramiters and conditions.  I am sure there are areas that it does better also, no doubt about it, all the trucks have their advantages and disadvantages

[red]

You say its bias cause ford sponcered it?  They all tested the same peramiters and conditions.  I am sure there are areas that it does better also, no doubt about it, all the trucks have their advantages and disadvantages

not because ford sponsored it, been awhile since i've seen it but there were a couple things. the only one that is standing out in my memory is the speed they chose. 28mph, why not use one of the speeds that the designers or other testers use? 20mph, 40, 50, 60, 70, why not use one of those? does the f150 have a better setup for handling than its competition? hate to say it but yep with the rear suspension. they chose that speed because of the problems that are blatently obvious with the tundra at that speed. what would happen at 20, 35, 42, 47mph? ford f150 will do the same thing at a differant speed. an unbiased test would find out what speed each differant vehicle does that and show that on video.

[skipnrocks]

Interesting theory, you should see if you could find a video at those standard speeds, it would be cool to see.

[red]

i'll see if i can find it. at the standard speeds all the brands handled similar (didnt see a rough road test over 30mph), the f150 rear end didnt lean as much around the turns as any of the competition. probably has to do with the shock location on the f150 being differant than any of the others.

[kneedownnate]

I think you're onto something red.  My dad showed me that video and was saying it seemed like an issue of harmonics, like at that particular speed it caused a bad harmonics issue with the toyota, but like you said it could have also had something to do with them removing the reciever and some ridgidity.

Either way, like has already been said toyota will back up their products like few other manufacturers, and in a way the big 3 could learn from.  Toyota sets the bar extremely low for recalls, sometimes under 10!  When they recalled the last style of tundras/sequoias for the spindles they'd had less than 10 failures but wanted to cover their bases.  How many fords burned up while ford refused to admit they had wiring issues?  A non driving, non running truck in a driveway should NEVER ignite it's own fire.