another religion thread

[scott85runner]

  but on a lighter note,what the hell is a turtle point and why am i down one?

[Doof]

BD "All we have to do is acknowledge that we are sinners, and recongize that Christ died in order to save us from Hell"

so basically i can be a sinner my whole life, kill all the people i want and before they sick the needle in my arm to put me to sleep i can admint im a sinner and christ died to save me from hell, and i would then be saved for etrenal damnation??

that doesnt make much sense to me

[scott85runner]

yeah and why cant you just ask for forgiveness after you die.you know,face to face at the pearly gates.

[Doof]

but on a lighter note,what the hell is a turtle point and why am i down one?

i read a few weeks back that there used to be a little random turtle that would pop up on the screen, and you click it and sometimes it would take point and sometimes it would add, they also said its not here anymore, and they are no big deal....dont mean anything

[scott85runner]

well at least you are further in the turtle hole than me

[BLACKDOG]

BD "All we have to do is acknowledge that we are sinners, and recongize that Christ died in order to save us from Hell"

so basically i can be a sinner my whole life, kill all the people i want and before they sick the needle in my arm to put me to sleep i can admint im a sinner and christ died to save me from hell, and i would then be saved for etrenal damnation??

that doesnt make much sense to me

Yeah, pretty much.  However, its not something you can use as a scapegoat. God doesn't buy :bull crap: 
But does it really have to make sense?  God is omnipotent, and I wouldn't even want to try to understand what goes through His mind.  You have to admit though, even if it doesn't make sense, it is still a pretty good deal.

yeah and why cant you just ask for forgiveness after you die.you know,face to face at the pearly gates.

Because it is too late.  He's spelled it all out for us, if we choose to ignore it until we die, that is our choice.  But he is very clear about our death being the deadline for that decision.

but on a lighter note,what the hell is a turtle point and why am i down one?

Used to be like silly58willy said, but now it is kind of like a fun reward system.  They don't mean anything, but if you say something smart, or give some good tech, or say something funny, etc. someone might give you one, or if you act like a richard, someone might take one away.   

Scott, as to your explanation, I fully understand some of those questions. I've had the same at different times in my life.  I've never really bought into the "God works in mysterious ways phrase"  I'm sure he does, but His actions (or appeared lack of action) are part of a bigger picture, and I think that if we study and look, oftentimes we can find out why.  For example, you know the guy that started America's Most Wanted?  It was a terrible tragedy that his son was killed (abducted as well? I don't remember) in the way he was, and they never did find the killer.  However, how many lives has that show saved, or at least helped provide families with closure?  Or what about 9/11?  Look at how many people were killed, compared to how many that were actually in that building, or on those planes.  I know that doesn't make it any easier for those families, and by no means does that diminish the loss.  I don't like the whole "It was God's plan"  phrase.  Those canned Christian answers often times make it worse, and in all honesty, I can't stand them.  God wants us to learn, to study, and to research.  He encourages us to, and he created us to be creative, and to think. Thanks for sharing your explanation   As for me taking the time to post, anytime   I enjoy these conversations, like you mentioned above, reasonable debate is always fun.

well at least you are further in the turtle hole than me

[Doof]

well at least you are further in the turtle hole than me

your time will come.......

lol

[Doof]

Yeah, pretty much.  However, its not something you can use as a scapegoat. God doesn't buy :bull crap: 

does it say so in the bible? if not then you will be able to do what ever you please your whole life, and just for shits an hour or so before they give the you long walk (like in the green mile) you could ask for forgiveness and then your good to go....

[BLACKDOG]

does it say so in the bible? if not then you will be able to do what ever you please your whole life, and just for shits an hour or so before they give the you long walk (like in the green mile) you could ask for forgiveness and then your good to go....

Not in the same words, but yes, it does say that in the Bible

[Doof]

thats interesting....thanks for sharing

[BigMike]

Its been a while since I've had time to talk about God on the forum. I know I left the Adv. Theo. II thread with my mouth open, but I saw this thread when it started and have wanted to brief it but never had the chance until now.

Jumping into this boat on reply #40 is difficult. There are so many things mentioned here, so I will most likely forget some point that has already been mentioned. So in light of this, if you guys don't mind my tardiness, I would like to rewind a bit and talk about points brought up in the early replies.

1. if you were born into a muslim family do you think you would be a muslim as an adult and would believe christians to be wrong in there beliefs.                                                                                                                                              2.how does any one religion know that what they believe is the correct belief as opposed to any other religions beliefs.

I think these questions are related to the same point. I was raised Christian and still am today. For 13 straight years I attended a 13-year (K-12) Christian school as a youth (elementary, middle, and high school). I lived in a pretty small world and was not really exposed to non- or differing believers until College.

Since then, I have met many friends who were raised a certain way and later found their lifestyle to be different. This used to make me wonder if I would have done the same as them, or in other words, I used to wonder about your first question above.

I believe there are many rational answers to your first question, but I think what first needs to be defined is if a "correct belief" even exists?

I believe there is only one correct way to worship God, but my reasoning will lie exclusively on the Bible and the Bible alone, and for this, you gentlemen have brought up a discussion on the validity and accuracy of the Bible.

I have never given an introduction to the Bible before, so I hope I can keep my thoughts in-line. The Bible was written by 44 different authors spanning almost 2,000 years. Most people believe the oldest book is Job, which is said to be written around 2,000-1,800 B.C. because it contains records of world events that took place during that time.

There are many historical events in the Bible that are accurately paralleled to historical events from non-Biblical records throughout the entire world. You can easily search Google.com for the accuracy of the Bible to find many events, such as:

• The Hittites. Many times in the Bible a culture of people called Hittites are mentioned prohibiting the Israelites from entering the promised land. But in all ancient records, no mention of Hittites was found, so many people figured this to be an imagination in the Bible which discredits its validity. But in 1876 a city was found in Djerabis in Asia Minor that not only proved the Hittites to be real, but that they were actually a great empire in ancient times. The Bible was right.
• Sargon. A king by the name of Sargon is mentioned in the book of Isaiah as coming to the city of Ashdod. This is the only record of this king in all ancient books and records. Either the Bible was right and king Sargon really existed and really went to Ashdod, or it was a myth as no other record has this information. Then in 1842 Sargon's royal palace was unearthed and multiple records were found regarding a siege of Ashdod by Sargon. Again the Bible was right.
• The Flood. The book of Genesis talks about a cataclysmic event known as the Flood, where the entire face of the earth was covered in water and only Noah and his family were spared using an Ark that God instructed Noah to build. Many considered this to be a total myth and impossible, however there have been found nearly 100 different cultural accounts where there was a universal destruction of human and animal life by a flood. Nearly all accounts agree that a boat was used, and that the seed of mankind was left to perpetuate human existence. Many accounts also state that it was the wickedness of man that caused the flood, and some of these accounts even mention a man named Noah. Even some accounts mention the dove and the raven, where to anyone who knows this story, is amazing. Then in 1872 the Babylonian flood tablets were found that depicts the story of the flood. Archeology has found plenty of evidence of a global or non-localized flood. It seems with all the evidence found, the Bible story is correct and not a myth.

There are many more historical correlations that verify the Bible. Please do a search on the subject. What is important to note is that through out all 44 different authors writing stories through nearly 2,000 years of history, not a single story is inaccurate or in error, and not a single thing in the Bible is contradictory. That simply blows my mind...

[BigMike]

I would also like to point out how the Bible has proven to be 100% accurate with its predictions. If you study the prophecy of Daniel, who wrote the book of Daniel in apprx. 535 B.C., God gives Daniel the fore-knowledge to interpret a dream from the king of Babylon in which the preceding ruling powers were accurately predicted down to the exact year.

There are countless predictions and prophecies in the Bible, and of those that have come to pass, have all been accurate to the exact year. Not a single one has been found in error or false to this day.

My Bible has a nice section on how Jesus was predicted, and I would like to share it below:

Prediction	Apprx Year of Prediction	Prophecy Source	Prophecy Fulfillment
Jesus will be born in a city called Bethlehem	730 B.C.	Micah 5:2	Matt. 2:1-6, Luke 2:1-20
Jesus will be born of a virgin	700 B.C.	Isaiah 7:14	Matt. 1:18-25, Luke 1:26-38
Jesus will be a prophet like Moses	1,407 B.C.	Deut. 18:15-18	John 7:40
Jesus will enter Jerusalem in triumph	480 B.C.	Zechariah 9:9	Matt. 21:1-9, John 12:12-16
Jesus will be rejected by his own people	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:1-3, Psalms 118:22	Matt. 26:14-16, John 12:37-43, Acts 4:1-12
Jesus will be betrayed by one of his disciples	900 B.C.	Psalms 41:9	Matt. 26:14-16, 26:47-50, Luke 22:19-23
Jesus will be tried (in court) and condemned	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:8	Luke 23:1-25, Matt. 27:1-2
Jesus will be silent before his accusers	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:7	Matt. 27:12-14, Mark 15:3-4, Luke 23:8-10
Jesus will be struck and spit upon by his enemies	681 B.C.	Isaiah 50:6	Matt. 26:67, 27:30, Mark 14:65
Jesus will be mocked and taunted	1,000 B.C.	Psalms 22:7-8	Matt. 27:39-44, Luke 23:11, 35
Jesus will die by crucifixion	1,000 B.C.	Pslams 22:14-17	Matt. 27:31, Mark 15:20,25
Jesus will suffer with criminals and pray for his enemies	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:12	Matt. 27:38, Mark 15:27-28, Luke 23:32-34
Jesus will be given vinegar and gall	800 B.C.	Psalms 69:21	Matt. 27:34, John 19:28-30
People will cast lots (gamble) over Jesus's clothes	1,000 B.C.	Psalms 22:18	Matt. 27:35, John 19:23-24
Jesus's bones will not be broken	1,430 B.C.	Exodus 12:46	John 19:31-36
Jesus will die as a sacrifice for sin	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:5-12	John 1:29, 11:49-52, Acts 10:43, 13:38-39
Jesus will be raised from the dead	1,300 B.C.	Psalms 16:10	Acts 2:22-32, Matt. 28:1-10
Jesus is currently at God's right hand	600 B.C.	Psalms 110:1	Mark 16:19, Luke 24:50-51

With this kind of accuracy I believe the Bible to be 100% correct and 100% accurate. If we believe the Bible is correct, then we can move onto understanding why God gave us the Bible in the first place.

Bible Basics:

Nothing in the Bible is of private interpretation.
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21 (King James Version)

Everything in the Bible was given to man to write through inspiration from God.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

The Bible is provided to give us hope.
"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Romans 15:4 (KJV)

Jesus tells us to read the scriptures in order to discover eternal life.
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life; and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39 (KVJ)

The Bible is our light to show us the way ahead in life. It reveals false values and philosophies.
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Psalms 119:105 (KVJ)

The scriptures make us wise through faith in Jesus.
"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make these wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 4:15 (KJV)

We are born again through the study of His word.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)

The Word of God is everlasting.
"But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." 1 Peter 1:25 (KJV)
"...by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23 (full quote above)

The Bible will prevent us from sinning.
"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." Psalms 119:11 (KJV)

Important information on how to use the Bible:

To fully understand the Bible, we need the help of the Holy Spirit.
"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (KJV)

His word will only have meaning to you if you truly seek it.
"Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God." Proverbs 2:3-5 (KJV)



I'll stop here for now. It took me quite a while to research and write these things down. This is how I feel every time I pick up my Bible and open it.

[BigMike]

As you have noticed, I believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God and I base my belief on the Bible and the Bible alone.

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:31 (KJV)

I think now is a good time for me to move on to my question above.

....I think what first needs to be defined is if a "correct belief" even exists?

I believe there is only one correct way to worship God

I believe that the Bible says there was 1 correct way to worship God in the beginning of time, 1 correct way to worship God at the end of time, and 1 correct way to worship God in heaven (the new Jerusalem).

Here is why I believe this. From the Garden of Eden, God tells Adam:

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:16-17 (KJV)

So here we have the very first law of God. Adam was to be obedient to God and worship Him in His way if he wished to remain in the garden and eat from the tree of life.

The Bible also speaks of 1 distinct group of people who are defiant and obedient to God in the end times.

In the end times, Jesus says that the people of earth will be faced with "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Matt. 24:21 KJV)

The Bible says that God will pour out his wrath unto the world. (Jeremiah 4:20 and Isaiah 66:15 to mention a couple non-Revelation sources) But wait! There is hope: The faithful in Christ who have kept the commandments of God will not be harmed:

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." Revelation 7: 2-3 (KJV)

So there must be some group of people who are yet holy in God's eyes.

The Bible says during this time the wicked will run for their lives. They will wish for death, for rocks to fall and crush them:
"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lab: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:16-17 (KJV)

They will ask "who will be able to stand?" The Bible says very clearly that the end time people who will overcome the world, just as Jesus did (John 16:33), will be those who "keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 12:17 KJV), "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

This God which Revelation is referring to is non other than the Creator God:

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Revelation 14:6-7 (KJV)

So we now have 1 distinct way to worship God in the beginning of time, and we have 1 distinct way to worship God at the end of time, so what does the Bible say about the way God should be worshiped in Heaven?

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flash come to worship before me, saith the Lord." Isaiah 66:22-23 (KJV)

Even in Heaven God shall be worshiped from one sabbath to another just as it is here on earth.

So this is why I believe their is 1 true way to worship God. 1 true way to worship God at the beginning of time, 1 true way to worship God at the end of time, and 1 true way to worship God in Heaven for ever, even for ever and ever.

2.how does any one religion know that what they believe is the correct belief as opposed to any other religions beliefs.

If they claim to be Christian, then all they need to do is compare their beliefs to that set forth in the Bible by God.


BigMike

[CTENG in KS]

This thread makes me sad.

[Doof]

This thread makes me sad.

why?

[93tonkatoy]

1. so, if there is only 1 correct way to worship god, what is this way?

2. how would you compare the teachings that another believes, if his beliefs give no authority to the Bible? in otherwords, if to him the Bible is just another "book of good teachings", such as we think of the Buddhist, native Americans, and such? I do not believe that ANY one religion, denomination or belief has any stranglehold on God. If you do what you know and believe is right, and know that without God you are nothing, then you will find favor with God.

In the garden of eden, God gave Mankind a choice. It was a conscious choice that has to be made every day: to eat of the tree or not to. If God had seen the coming event (eating of the tree) and destroyed it before Adam sinned, would he have had the choice? If a person is taught from childhood that a certain set of beliefs is correct, then is that not the choice that he is given?  I believe that God accepts us where we are, when we come to the realization that we need Him. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord." He makes no demands that we do anything else first. Then as you study and seek answers to your questions, God will show you that such and so needs to be changed in your life. Again, your choice. If you eat of the tree before you are aware that it is wrong, are you guilty of sin?

[fatt_matt]

I dont believe in religon.. However, im in no means saying there is no religon!

Just saying,
i believe in dubos. *Loosely translating.*
A person is more or a less what their environment is.
So if you are in a chirsitan environment, then you'll probally become christian.. If you grow up in war and crime, then you'll more or less become involved in crime.
kind of in line with the very first post.

[BigMike]

1. so, if there is only 1 correct way to worship god, what is this way?

In order to worship God on his terms and not your own, I believe you need to keep the Commandments of God (the 10 commandments found in Exodus Chapter 20) and believe in the testimony of Jesus, which is the Bible: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39 (KJV) We also notice in Hebrews 11:5 that Enoch, who was translated, or taken to heaven before he died, had the testimony of Jesus: "for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hewbrews 11:5 KJV)

2. how would you compare the teachings that another believes, if his beliefs give no authority to the Bible? in otherwords, if to him the Bible is just another "book of good teachings", such as we think of the Buddhist, native Americans, and such? I do not believe that ANY one religion, denomination or belief has any stranglehold on God.

This might be where we disagree. What do you mean by "stranglehold"? Clearly there is only one God and therefore only one correct way to worship him. God created his laws and therefore they are all binding.

If you do what you know and believe is right, and know that without God you are nothing, then you will find favor with God.........

........I believe that God accepts us where we are, when we come to the realization that we need Him. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord." He makes no demands that we do anything else first. Then as you study and seek answers to your questions, God will show you that such and so needs to be changed in your life.

Exactly! You sure sound like a Christian to me! Please clearly note that I never said that there is only 1 correct way to enter heaven! If this was true then we would all be doomed for sure!

The Bible clearly states that God is the only person whose commands we are to follow, and that He winks his eye to ignorance:

"(12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

(14) Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

(15) For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

(17) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4:12, 14-15, 17 (KJV)

In Psalms 15:1-2, David makes it very clear for us to know who will be in Heaven:
"Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in the holly hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart." (KJV)

Isaiah 26:3 says:
"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee" (KJV)

Therefore on earth there is no 1 singular religion that is absolutely required to enter into His kingdom. But it is through pure Heart, a righteous life, and a life of high morals.

If you choose to believe in a savior, then God will create a spiritual thirst and hunger for his righteousness from within:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matthew 5:6 (KJV)

And how do we satisfy our thirst and hunger?

"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." John 6:35 (KJV)

And referring to the few remaining believers in God in the end time who "came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14 KJV), for those who will overcome the world through Christ, Revelation 7:16 says:
"The shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

These are really beautiful verses and I encourage you to look them up in your Bible.

BigMike

[Doof]

Big Mike: you obviosly spent some time putting everything together. i just got done reading it and most of it makes sense. some things that dont make sense to me is the dates you quoted.

My Bible has a nice section on how Jesus was predicted, and I would like to share it below:

Prediction	Apprx Year of Prediction	Prophecy Source	Prophecy Fulfillment
Jesus will be born in a city called Bethlehem	730 B.C.	Micah 5:2	Matt. 2:1-6, Luke 2:1-20
Jesus will be born of a virgin	700 B.C.	Isaiah 7:14	Matt. 1:18-25, Luke 1:26-38
Jesus will be a prophet like Moses	1,407 B.C.	Deut. 18:15-18	John 7:40
Jesus will enter Jerusalem in triumph	480 B.C.	Zechariah 9:9	Matt. 21:1-9, John 12:12-16
Jesus will be rejected by his own people	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:1-3, Psalms 118:22	Matt. 26:14-16, John 12:37-43, Acts 4:1-12
Jesus will be betrayed by one of his disciples	900 B.C.	Psalms 41:9	Matt. 26:14-16, 26:47-50, Luke 22:19-23
Jesus will be tried (in court) and condemned	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:8	Luke 23:1-25, Matt. 27:1-2
Jesus will be silent before his accusers	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:7	Matt. 27:12-14, Mark 15:3-4, Luke 23:8-10
Jesus will be struck and spit upon by his enemies	681 B.C.	Isaiah 50:6	Matt. 26:67, 27:30, Mark 14:65
Jesus will be mocked and taunted	1,000 B.C.	Psalms 22:7-8	Matt. 27:39-44, Luke 23:11, 35
Jesus will die by crucifixion	1,000 B.C.	Pslams 22:14-17	Matt. 27:31, Mark 15:20,25
Jesus will suffer with criminals and pray for his enemies	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:12	Matt. 27:38, Mark 15:27-28, Luke 23:32-34
Jesus will be given vinegar and gall	800 B.C.	Psalms 69:21	Matt. 27:34, John 19:28-30
People will cast lots (gamble) over Jesus's clothes	1,000 B.C.	Psalms 22:18	Matt. 27:35, John 19:23-24
Jesus's bones will not be broken	1,430 B.C.	Exodus 12:46	John 19:31-36
Jesus will die as a sacrifice for sin	681 B.C.	Isaiah 53:5-12	John 1:29, 11:49-52, Acts 10:43, 13:38-39
Jesus will be raised from the dead	1,300 B.C.	Psalms 16:10	Acts 2:22-32, Matt. 28:1-10
Jesus is currently at God's right hand	600 B.C.	Psalms 110:1	Mark 16:19, Luke 24:50-51

if jesus was born in 730 BC how is it BC? correct me if im wrong but isnt bc, Before Christ? so when jesus was born wouldnt that be the day the dates change to AD?

and how did he die by crucifixion in 1,000BC? some 270 years later?
if the years were different back in the day, then please correct me. it doesnt make much sense to me.


and what bible do you read from?

[blackdiamond]

Big Mike: you obviosly spent some time putting everything together. i just got done reading it and most of it makes sense. some things that dont make sense to me is the dates you quoted.

if jesus was born in 730 BC how is it BC? correct me if im wrong but isnt bc, Before Christ? so when jesus was born wouldnt that be the day the dates change to AD?

and how did he die by crucifixion in 1,000BC? some 270 years later?
if the years were different back in the day, then please correct me. it doesnt make much sense to me.


and what bible do you read from?

The dates are when the predictions were made.

[BigMike]

if jesus was born in 730 BC how is it BC?

Negative. I don't think historical records state a "specific" date, but Jesus is believed to be born around 5-4 B.C. because historical records show a king by the name of Herod as trying to kill the seed of God, and Herod died in 4 B.C. I believe.

B.C. does indeed stand for Before Christ (not to be confused with BCE, Before the Common Era), and A.D. stands for Anno Domini, which is a Latin phrase for "in the year of our Lord."

The system is used to make the birth of Jesus Christ the dividing point in history. But as you noticed Jesus was born around 5 to 4 B.C., Before Christ. What happened is that originally, scholars believed Christ was born in 0 B.C., but they later found he was born in 5 or 4 B.C.

and how did he die by crucifixion in 1,000BC? some 270 years later?

No, no, the years I wrote are the year the prediction was made. For instance, Psalms predicts that Jesus would not remain dead in around the year of 1,300 B.C., and it came to pass in I think around the year 34 A.D (?). So this prophecy was made over 1,300 years in advance and it came to be.

BigMike

[Doof]

ooooooo, ok. that makes more sense then


if i were to buy a bible and read it, which one would be reccomended, so i can get more info for myself and come into these threads with more knowledge on the subject?

[BigMike]

and what bible do you read from?

Sorry, I missed this question. All of my sources have been quoted from the King James Version, which is the first translation of the Bible into English done in 1611. While only the original versions, be them Hebrew or Arabic, different English translations have experienced their own sort of style in which some translations English versions translate differently from other versions.

Really, the only way to know if the English version you have is correct, would be to become a Hebrew scholar and read all of the original texts.

But I prefer the King James Version, or the New International Version, above all others. Of course the Devil would LOVE to screw up the translation of any Bible if possible, and this is why even the King James Version poorly translates Death and Hell in multiple references. This is what has lead many people to have false beliefs regarding life after death....

...which is what you guys spoke about on page 1, hang on...

[BigMike]

Here it is, reply #13:

personaly:
i believe that when you pass you go to a purgatory state (yeah kinda like the movie and spelling?) and you prove yourself worhty of passing on to "heaven", but if you fail you are "reborn" and get a new chance but you have no knowledge of your past life so you are back to square one and try again.....and so on and when you get to your idea of heaven you see who you want and have anything at your finger tips...

This is widely accepted as fact and is very sad to me. One thing I get from this is how incrediblly cleaver the Devil is. We need to remember that the Devil is the former angel from Heaven named Lucifier. He must be a very beautiful and amazing creature of God! When you think about the Devil, what comes to your mind? Some red guy with horns? He must be so amazingly beautiful and perfect that we can not comprehend it. The Devil is extremely intelligent -- he deceived 1/3 of all the angels in heaven!
Just think about it: The Devil has gained tremendous wisdom of Human life and reactions from studding the species of Humans for some 7,000 years! How awesome the Devil is that he is so intelligent that he can understand sin, hate, dispare, and human iniquity. How else do you think fortune tellers and palm readers can sometimes predict the future? Obviously the dark powers that are controlling their minds have studied Human actions for many, many centuries!
And yet with all of this wisdom and experience, he failed time and time again for over 30 years to trick Jesus into sinning, in which Jesus NEVER gave into the temptations of sin. Even when Jesus was in the wilderness, the Devil appeared before Him. Don't think the Devil was some ugly red horned guy that appeared before Christ. He was a BEAUTIFUL and AMAZING Angel who has a personal experience with God and Jesus from Heaven, he should have been able to trick and confuse Jesus, BUT HE FAILED! How incredible Jesus must be! To overcome this world!

it might be right nobody knows

Of course someone knows: Just read the Bible! This is the next topic I would like to discuss, but to be honest, I will not have time until after an Exam I have Tuesday afternoon (College). I have a lot of information on Hell and life after death from the Bible that I believe many will find very astonishing. When you sit down and really get into the Bible, you find out how much sin has wrapped the minds of the majority of humans today.

Just as in ancient times where God's followers were always the minority group on earth, the same shall it be in the future. The Bible says history will repeat itself. God's people will be tortured and killed by those who even think they are doing the work of God:

"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." Jon 16:2 (KJV)

Horrible times are in the future for God's followers.....just as it was in the middle ages where countless true believers were put to death for accepting God.

[BigMike]

If you are reading this, please reload and re-read my previous post. I added another paragraph to it.

I definitely want to talk about Death and Hell, but I will have to wait a couple of days for this.

[93tonkatoy]

The reference BigMike made to the different translations of the bible, are mostly a translation of the KJV. The New International Version did exactly what he described, in that modern translators took the original text in the middle eastern languages and translated it to modern english. I would highly reccommend using this version, because it is much easier to understand. And in a lot of instances, I will also look at the KJV and compare what is said.

And as far as purgatory goes, what it sounds like you are saying is that you would go to a "court of life". If so, God is the judge, Jesus will be there with the Lamb's Book of Life. If your name is not there, I HOPE you will be able to put forth a better case for righteousness than Jesus himself would be able to. The bible clearly states that life ends in death, and after that, the Judgement. At that time, you will be judged on your guilt of sin or for the forgiveness you claimed while still alive. Then on to your reward (whether it is heaven or hell)

As far as worship, (from memory) "enter his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise." This was old testament instructions. after Jesus' crucifiction, the veil of the holy of holies was torn, meaning that god is with us where we are, not in a place we go. God wants us to worship him in all we do. When you are talking to a friend about something good that has happened, and you give God the praise, I believe that that is worship to God. When you go through a tough time in your life, or trajedy, and you let someone know that you are believing that God will give you the strength to get through it, that would also be worship. Or in the unselfish giving of your time and talent to help others.

The New Commandment is, IMHO, the best way to worship God. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind" (meaning putting Him first in ALL that you do) "and your neighbor as yourself." And I believe that if you keep these commandments, then you will not have to worry about breaking the original 10.

And BigMike, Yes, Church of God my whole life, but still have questions and beliefs that do not strictly align with organized religion.

[Doof]

learning hebrew doesnt look like its in my future. but i will look into the good book and check it out for sure.

Here it is, reply #13:

When you think about the Devil, what comes to you mind? Some red guy with horns? He must be so amazingly beautiful and perfect that we can not comprehend it.

i couldnt agree more with what the devil could look like. red and horns is a very very low possibility in my mind.



im looking forward to what continues with this thread on tuesday. i would like to go into right now as well but i to have to study and finish watching UFC 76 that i couldnt watch yesterday due to tech problems with my system. so its on now and is crazy amazing....but thats just a little off topic....anyways thanks for the info and ill be sure to check back on this in the next day or two

[blackdiamond]

i couldnt agree more with what the devil could look like. red and horns is a very very low possibility in my mind.

Remember that the devil is also known as Lucifer and was an angel prior to be cast out of heaven.

[Doof]

yeah i think that in the Da vinci code tom hanks (i forgot his name in the movie) his character talked about that while in the house of his colleague

[mrsblackdiamond]

learning hebrew doesnt look like its in my future. but i will look into the good book and check it out for sure.

I don't normally post but I was reading over bd's shoulder.  My understanding is that the NASB (New American Standard) is one of the most literal translations.  http://www.ibs.org/bibles/translations/  It's the Bible I use and it's really easy to read as well.  Our pastor uses it quite a bit in his sermons etc.

Hope this helps at least with the translation side of things.  I'll try to read everything else later.