another religion thread

[BLACKDOG]

It is interesting that all of the "Read the Bible in 1 year" guides I've seen always starts with Genesis 1:1. Why not start with the story of Jesus? Get to know Him, and get to understand why He came here for us! Then as you read the rest of the Bible, you will be able to understand the passion and devotion that I believe God wants all of His children to share with Him.

BigMike

It is indeed.  I had a friend that was interested in starting to read the Bible, and he just started at the beginning.  He got about halfway into Leviticus, and quit.  I asked how it was going, and he told me he got bored out of his mind with it.  I told him to start again, but read the New Testament first.  He read it, then the Old Testament, and loved it!!  He understood so much better, and is now a Christian!  

[BigMike]

Same thing happened to me. I am not a book reader, and I have never read the Bible in its entirety, however I do want to! I remember when I was in high school, and made a new years resolution to follow my "read the bible in 1 year" guide, and I only got to about 3/4 through Genesis and I gave up! wow

[BLACKDOG]

Same thing happened to me. I am not a book reader, and I have never read the Bible in its entirety, however I do want to! I remember when I was in high school, and made a new years resolution to follow my "read the bible in 1 year" guide, and I only got to about 3/4 through Genesis and I gave up! wow

Join the club!  We've got t-shirts! 

[BigMike]

I would like to continue discussing what I said on the 2008 Vote thread (reply #24), here is that quote:

Time to flip out on this thread

So!

Is your response any better than not voting for someone because they're Christian?

The last time I checked being Mormon certainly does not mean you are a Christian.

I am 90% certain I am going with Mitt. His business skills are very good and Sean Hannity supports him, so shall I.

The problem is here we go again: I don't know much about McCain's back ground, but Hitlery Clinton, Obama, and Mitt Romney all make great candidates to support the Pope, which is exactly what America needs to do if Bible prophecy is to be fulfilled. Same with Bush or Kerry: It didn't matter who would win, both support the Pope.

It is really becoming scary. The Bible says three things will happen: 1) Church and State need to become one, 2) Protestantism needs to fall, and 3) America needs to rebuild the Catholic church/system.

Anyway you throw the ballot, the ball stays in motion.

BigMike

I have a DVD from our Pastor that I have been working on trying to get down to a small file size. I still need to do some more work on converting it into a more common format so more computers can play it, but for now, I do have a SWF shockwave video file up on my website, and if your computer is able to play Flash videos (such as YouTube), then you should be able to download this file and drag & drop it into your FireFox or MS Internet Explorer and it should start playing automatically.



File:

9/11 and the Destiny of America SHOCKWAVE TYPE (138 MB)

9/11 and the Destiny of America AVI TYPE (319 MB)

Year recorded: Spring 2005
Play time: ~55 minutes

Please note that this DVD is part of a huge 30-something series that my Pastor did back in 2005. I have uploaded this DVD without permission. The website for it can be found here: Secrets Unsealed - Cracking the Genesis Code

I encourage anyone who is curious what the Bible has to say about the future of America to download and watch this DVD. It will take about an hour to watch, and as stated above, I will work on converting it to a different format that might be better for your computer to play. This file has been compressed and compressed to keep it very small, and the audio quality is a bit poor but bearable in my opinion. I will get another one made soon.

hey big mike!  what do you think about 12/21/2012 ??

Pretty much the same thing regarding the thousands of predictions Nostradamus made. Hang on a second....

EDIT: Well, I'll have to find it later (I am at work!). I thought he made like 3 or 4 thousand predictions or something like that, and only a very small percentage were true?

What "Bible" did you read this in Mike? 

I've read it in the King James version, New King James version, and the New International version.

There should NEVER be any affiliation between church and state, and nobody in office should ever make any mention of their religion or faith.

I will keep this quoted

[blackdiamond]

On a similar note, I was talking with a friend over Christmas, who is a pastor, and he was explaining his "conspiracy theory" on this very topic.  He has done a lot of research and know that his theory is nothing more than a theory, but he believes there is strong evidence to support the Jesuit order really "driving" the Pope and being the key to Bible prophecy.  The Jesuit order has fractured several times and can be linked to nearly every known secret society, including the Masons and the one the Bush's belong to.  He believes that they are really pulling the strings behind the scenes.  It was an interesting conversation that sounded plausible to me.

On a slightly different topic, I heard that all but two of the astronauts are LDS.  I have not had time to look do any research on this.

[BigMike]

On a slightly different topic, I heard that all but two of the astronauts are LDS.  I have not had time to look do any research on this.

I've heard this before..................... hmmm

[BigMike]

Update:

Ok, last night I encoded it as a DivX AVI file for better compatibility and quality.

It can be downloaded here: 9/11 and the Destiny of America AVI TYPE (319 MB)

[Doof]

you wanna know what flips my lid about religion?
ill tell you...

those ppl who walk around trying to get you to go to their church and go to their views. i was working on my runner the other day and two nice ladies walked up and started preaching to me. i kindly told them that i wasnt interested and went to turn around and she pulled out the bible and started to read passages and what not. i was so pissed but kept my cool to not be a jackass...

i want to know why they dont understand, and just stay in the church. if ppl wanted to go they would. there is obviously a reason they arent there so why go and hunt them down and piss them off?

[blackdiamond]

you wanna know what flips my lid about religion?
ill tell you...

those ppl who walk around trying to get you to go to their church and go to their views. i was working on my runner the other day and two nice ladies walked up and started preaching to me. i kindly told them that i wasnt interested and went to turn around and she pulled out the bible and started to read passages and what not. i was so pissed but kept my cool to not be a jackass...

i want to know why they dont understand, and just stay in the church. if ppl wanted to go they would. there is obviously a reason they arent there so why go and hunt them down and piss them off?

The irony is that part of Christianity the "Great Commission" to take the gospel to the world (other religions have similar things) so the religious people that you like, who leave other alone, are by definition hypocrites.  I doubt you have much respect for hypocrites.  It isn't possible to be a true Christian without trying to teach other about Christ.  I would agree that there are right and wrong ways to go about it and the "bully" approach isn't idea.  In the future take the mind set that they must have courage to open themselves up for criticism for their personal beliefs.  It sounds like you handled it well.

[Doof]

that makes sense... yeah i was real polite to them it just kinda made me mad at the time

[BigMike]

Don't feel like you're the only side that feels this way -- I claim to be a Christian and when Jehovah Witnesses come to my house (has happened 3 or 4 times) even I feel like they are trying to spoon feed me and I don't want to listen to them, and it is tough trying to be friendly. Jesus said "if you Love me, then keep my commandments" and one commandment is to love my neighbor as myself. It doesn't matter what background or religion you come from, atheists alike, Christ would never judge someone purely on how they choose to live their life and because I want to be Christ-like, I try my best to do the same.

If I was totally in the middle of doing something and someone needed my attention to talk about Baseball to me, I would not be thrilled at all.

[Doof]

haha i like that last analogy...

[79coyotefrg]

DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?
  I SURE DIDNT UNTIL NOW

Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

Make a personal reflection about this.....

Very interesting, read until the  end.....
It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):


"Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
for whatsoever a man soweth, 
that shall he also reap.


Here are some men and women 
who mocked God :


John Lennon  (Singer):

Some years before, during his interview with an     American Magazine, he said: 

"Christianity will end, it will disappear. 
I do not have to argue about
that. I am certain.

Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple,   Today we are more famous than Him" (1966).

Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.


Tancredo Neves   (President of Brazil ): 
During the Presidential campaign, he said if he   got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God     would remove him from Presidency.

Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day     before being made President, then he died.

   

Cazuza  (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):


During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ), 

while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some     smoke into the air and said: "God, that's for you."

He died at the age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.


The man who built the Titanic

After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked    him how safe the Titanic would be.

With an ironic tone he said: 
"Not even God can sink it"

The  result:    I think you all know what happened to the Titanic .


Marilyn Monroe  (Actress)

She was visited by Billy Graham during a   presentation of a show. 
He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach    to her. 
After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: 
"I don't need your Jesus".

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment . 

Bon Scott  (Singer)     
The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang: 
"Don't stop me, I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell".

On  the 19th of  February 1980, Bon Scott was   found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.

Campinas  (IN 2005)
In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....
The mother accompanied her to the car and was    so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

"My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.."
She responded: "Only If He (God) Travels    In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here.....It's Already Full "

Hours later, news came by that they had been    involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died,
the car could not be recognized what type of car it had  been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.

The police said there was no way the trunk could   have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of   eggs, none was broken .

Christine Hewitt  (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)  said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book    ever written.

In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond  recognition in her motor vehicle .

Many more important people have forgotten that   there is no other name that was given so   much authority as the name of Jesus.

Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose   again, and he is still alive .

       "Jesus"   

P.S: If it was a joke, you would have sent it to everyone.    So are you going to have courage to send this?.

I have done my part, Jesus said 

"If you are embarrassed about me,

I will also be embarrassed about you  before my father."

[BigMike]

Hey guys,

I just got home from Church and the sermon was a very in-depth discussion of John chapter 11, the story of Lazarus.

And the reason I am here posting, is due to the fact that Lazarus was dead for 4 days and then Jesus resurrected him (see verses 17 and 44), an excellent point was made by our pastor. If you were following some posts I made beginning on Reply #63, page 2 of this thread, I now have an extra bit to add.

I ask the following question: If when you die you go straight to heaven or straight to hell, how then did Lazarus come back from death? If he had gone straight to hell and had been there for 4 days, then why didn't he say "whew! that was close! I was in hell and it was awful! Thank you for bringing me back to earth!" or if he had gone straight to heaven, he certainly would have said, "What the heck Jesus, why did you resurrect me?? I was in heaven for 4 days and if was wonderful!"

No, he never said these things. This is because it is written that the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10).


Other good points mentioned today in Church was how being dead is just like sleeping, you are unconscious. So in a sense, according to the Bible, every human will be resurrected after they die because to them, when dead, there is no sense of time, they are unconscious, just like when you are asleep, and suddenly, you wake a bunch of years later (whatever) at your resurrection.

It is like you use a video camcorder in the year 2000, record you at the beach, and then you put the camera away for 7 years and then in 2007 you begin recording again you and your truck on the Rubicon. To us, we know that 7 years elapsed between the time you were at the beach in 2000 and the time you now on Rubicon in 2007, but to the film in the camera, it was instantaneous. One video frame you are at the beach, and then the very next frame you are at Rubicon. It looks instantaneous, but really 7 years passed.

This is what the Bible teaches, and I had not heard the point regarding Lazarus until today. A good valid point!




Also, blane525 and I were talking about God while working on my truck this past week, and he made another good point:

Consider this: Many times in the Bible judging and being judged is discussed. For instance, Matthew 7:1-2 says:
"(7.1) Judge not, that ye be not judged. (7.2) For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt. 7:1-2 King James Version

Now get this: I have not been to other churches to hear this first hand, but I have been to funerals of friends who are not Adventist, and the pastor giving the eulogy typically says something like, "Our beloved friend has passed, but it gives us reassurance to know that he is happy right now in heaven this day"

Ok, so I ask you this question: Did this pastor not just pass judgment on the person? Who is he to say whether the deceased is in heaven right now or in hell? Only Christ alone knows the final judgment of every person. People have NO right -- according to the Bible -- to pass judgment by saying "well at least my grandma is in heaven right now". How do they know this? And how do they have the authority to judge their grandma? They are assuming the role of Christ!!

Wow

As Marty McFly once said, "Whoa, this is heavy!"

[blackdiamond]

I have heard that before, the first part at least.

I'm not sure I agree that saying someone is in heaven when they die is really judging them in the same context that we are not to judge.  I do believe in death as a sleep, but I think the point of judgment is to not make judgments about people and look down on them.  We are to look at everyone through the eyes of Christ and show His love to them.

[BigMike]

Of course you know where I stand on this, but it just seems to me what my friend was telling me, it seems he has a good point. How can I say "my mother is in heaven watching me" when I have no clue how she lived her life and I have no clue how she will be judged. If I make the "statement" that someone is in heaven right now watching over me, then haven't I not presumptuously judged her?

[Doof]

in this death sleep are you dreaming? or just looking at the back of your eyelids?

can you explain his one BM...

my mom was telling me a while back that one day at work (she works at an elderly care hospital) one of her fav. patients flat lined and she was the first on there and necessitated him. the first thing he said to her was this. he looked her in the eyes and said "margot ( T is silent) i saw the lights, why did you bring me back?"

assuming that he had seen "the lights", for those few seconds he was visually and physically dead (heart stopped pumping, no blood circulation) what lights had he seen?

[Doof]

Of course you know where I stand on this, but it just seems to me what my friend was telling me, it seems he has a good point. How can I say "my mother is in heaven watching me" when I have no clue how she lived her life and I have no clue how she will be judged. If I make the "statement" that someone is in heaven right now watching over me, then haven't I not presumptuously judged her?

hypothetically speaking.... your mom passes, assuming correctly you would want her to go to heaven to where she can be happy and enjoy herself as well as look down and make sure things are still going good for you and so on... if asked would you say, no she is in hell having a shitty time. highly doubtful. you would say, she is in heaven looking over me .... if that makes sense and you can understand what im trying to say

[BLACKDOG]

Now get this: I have not been to other churches to hear this first hand, but I have been to funerals of friends who are not Adventist, and the pastor giving the eulogy typically says something like, "Our beloved friend has passed, but it gives us reassurance to know that he is happy right now in heaven this day"

Ok, so I ask you this question: Did this pastor not just pass judgment on the person? Who is he to say whether the deceased is in heaven right now or in hell? Only Christ alone knows the final judgment of every person. People have NO right -- according to the Bible -- to pass judgment by saying "well at least my grandma is in heaven right now". How do they know this? And how do they have the authority to judge their grandma? They are assuming the role of Christ!!

Wow

As Marty McFly once said, "Whoa, this is heavy!"

I'm with bd on this one.  I don't think that is passing judgement in the sense that the verses you posted mean.   However, in accordance with your previous statements in the same post, I've hear the pastor of the church I went to in Vacaville (Southern Baptist) say something similar at funerals, but making the reference for the "timeframe" of death and knowing nothing before being ressurected.   

I don't think this is a judement, because my understanding of judgment is a concrete event.  You are judged, and then the effect of the judgement is carried out.  I think it is more of an assumption mabye?    a hope, based on that person's life.  I don't consider it a judgement because what you have "judged" that person in/on/whatever has no bearing on them in this case.  You can say he or she is in Heaven or going to Heaven all you want, but if it isn't the case, then thats not the case. 

[blackdiamond]

in this death sleep are you dreaming? or just looking at the back of your eyelids?

can you explain his one BM...

my mom was telling me a while back that one day at work (she works at an elderly care hospital) one of her fav. patients flat lined and she was the first on there and necessitated him. the first thing he said to her was this. he looked her in the eyes and said "margot ( T is silent) i saw the lights, why did you bring me back?"

assuming that he had seen "the lights", for those few seconds he was visually and physically dead (heart stopped pumping, no blood circulation) what lights had he seen?

Who's to say that he didn't see the "lights" before or after he was clinically dead?

Take a look in Genesis and you will find out that the "breath of life" given to man by God is the same that is given to animals.  How many people believe that animals do anything other than decompose after death.  At the judgment, God will resurrect us and at that time fulfill the promise of eternal life.

[BigMike]

I'm with bd on this one.  I don't think that is passing judgement in the sense that the verses you posted mean.   However, in accordance with your previous statements in the same post, I've hear the pastor of the church I went to in Vacaville (Southern Baptist) say something similar at funerals, but making the reference for the "timeframe" of death and knowing nothing before being ressurected.   

I don't think this is a judement, because my understanding of judgment is a concrete event.  You are judged, and then the effect of the judgement is carried out.  I think it is more of an assumption mabye?    a hope, based on that person's life.  I don't consider it a judgement because what you have "judged" that person in/on/whatever has no bearing on them in this case.  You can say he or she is in Heaven or going to Heaven all you want, but if it isn't the case, then thats not the case. 

I think the point blane525 was making, and I adopt his point, is that it is just another thing that people are saying that simply is not biblical. Of course I would like to hope that all people who die will be in Heaven instead of being dead eternally (hell)....


Have you ever considered it this way: If your dad dies and immediately goes straight to heaven, and then you think "ahhh my father is in heaven right now and he is watching over me every day" Well, the Bible describes heaven as....
(verse 3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (verse 4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" Rev. 21:3-4 King James Version

So if there is no sorrow, nor crying, neither any pain, then how could someone up in heaven right now today be looking down upon us here on planet earth and watching us get in a car accident, or watching our house get broken in and vandalized, or watch us get fired at work, or watch us get a speeding ticket on the freeway......... or even watch those in war die and watch the people in the World Trade Towers get killed when they were just minding their own business.

Certainly the pain and suffering here on earth would affect everyone in heaven! How could they be joyous and at peace without pain, sorrow, or tears if they had to watch all this chaos and crap that is going on in this sin infested world -- that certainly does not sound like heaven to me!!! I would much rather be unconscious and unaware of the future calamities and then wake up after everything is destroyed so that I wouldn't have to be experiencing all that and not be able to do anything about it! Wouldn't you?

[blackdiamond]

I had this conversation with a co-worker and I got an explaination that was similar to a "zombie" where people in heaven were "blinded" from seeing that bad things that happen on earth. 

[BLACKDOG]

I think the point blane525 was making, and I adopt his point, is that it is just another thing that people are saying that simply is not biblical. Of course I would like to hope that all people who die will be in Heaven instead of being dead eternally (hell)....


Have you ever considered it this way: If your dad dies and immediately goes straight to heaven, and then you think "ahhh my father is in heaven right now and he is watching over me every day" Well, the Bible describes heaven as....
(verse 3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (verse 4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" Rev. 21:3-4 King James Version

So if there is no sorrow, nor crying, neither any pain, then how could someone up in heaven right now today be looking down upon us here on planet earth and watching us get in a car accident, or watching our house get broken in and vandalized, or watch us get fired at work, or watch us get a speeding ticket on the freeway......... or even watch those in war die and watch the people in the World Trade Towers get killed when they were just minding their own business.

Certainly the pain and suffering here on earth would affect everyone in heaven! How could they be joyous and at peace without pain, sorrow, or tears if they had to watch all this chaos and crap that is going on in this sin infested world -- that certainly does not sound like heaven to me!!! I would much rather be unconscious and unaware of the future calamities and then wake up after everything is destroyed so that I wouldn't have to be experiencing all that and not be able to do anything about it! Wouldn't you?

I don't know if you caught it, or if I wasn't clear enough, but I agree with you on the timeframe of going to Heaven. 
My grandfather died in 1992.  My grandmother died in 2006.  I believe that due to the way that they followed God and the way that they lived their life, that they are bound for Heaven.  However, I do believe that even though my grandfather died 14 years before my grandmother, that they will arrive in Heaven at the exact same time, along with everyone else bound for Heaven.  I believe, like you, that the Bible is pretty dang clear on this aspect, the dead are dead until everyone is sent to their final judgment

[scott85runner]

well i had pretty much forgotten about starting this post until i recieved a p.m. asking me what i hoped to acomplish by debating christian faith on a mostly christian forum in a mostly christian nation.                                                      it seems this post has turned,as i figured it would,into alot of sermonizing from believers and alot of bible quotes.put the bible down and offer some real proof.i have a bible and was raised christian and i am not debating what words are written in the bible.                                                       79coyote your true christian fearmongering ways are showing in all your fine examples of jesus mockery =death.is that the best reason you can come with to scare us non believers?how bout some hell fire and brimstone sermons,because the mockery equals death just aint doing it.                                                          i guess i started this post hoping maybe some people would see the true reason they believe the way they do,not because its the truth but because of influence.influence from parents who were influenced by there parents,influence from ignorant politicians who hold the bible for photo ops so they can get elected,influence from teachers,influence from the media and everywhere else you look in this country.                                                     put the book down and use your brain for a moment.your fairy tale book was written for people who thought you could cure a headache by drilling a hole in your skull,people who thought the world was flat,people who thought you could fit all the animals in the world on one wooden boat.just think about it,when you were a child you believed in santa clause,the easter bunny,tooth fairy all that stuff. now looking back you think that stuff is silly and couldnt possibly be true.is it really any sillier than the bull thats in your bible?YOUR PARENTS JUST NEVER TOLD YOU THE BIBLE IS MAKE BELIEVE LIKE THEY DID WITH SANTA.                                                         i cant wait to here your,i mean the bibles,reply to my comments.

[Inittowinit]

.

[scott85runner]

exactly what is it that i dont understand?.bashing without backing?i have the rational,thinking world as backing,i have science as backing,i have reason, not superstition, as backing.and for those who dont deserve someone talking bull about there beliefs,they dont have to read this post or chime in.i  started this post with a simple question.its the genuine believers who are slinging the bull everywhere i look.oh and no i came up in a pentacostal church not a catholic one,so i missed out on all the "touching in a bad way."

[scott85runner]

and by the way how do know what anyone deserves.do you think that because they believe in god they are immune from scrutiny or critiscism.those idoits at westboro baptist are "true believers" who believe the crap they spout is backed by the bible.what do feel they deserve,or do i just not understand them either.as i stated before i started this post with a question,the post was quickly hijacked with sermons and bible quotes and recently some presidential election nonsense.if this post has degraded to something that offends you or upsets you then dont read it.it was started to spur people into thinking.

[Inittowinit]

.

[scott85runner]

i appologize if it seems i have an attitude.i have alot of passion for my beliefs and it comes out at times.i dont disagree with your opinion about me being a preacher/pusher from the other side.that seems to fit.i dont have a problem with preachers,i just believe the words they preach are wrong and the ones i preach are correct.

[TOYOTA4X4]

After many, many posts I have yet to really see an answer to the original questions. A few people have made some small concessions to the idea that if a person were raised in a different culture they would then believe differently than they do.

I think all Scott is looking for is people to open their minds a bit and take a look around. How can so many cultures have such diverse religious beliefs if all humanity had a single creator?

What makes one religion better or more "right" than the other one?
What if I believed in unicorns and leprechauns and even had an ancient manuscript telling about the creation of them right alongside man?

Nobody would respect my beliefs if I insisted unicorns and leprechauns existed because some book told me so. Heck, I would probably be locked up in a nice soft room somewhere.
So how exactly is a belief in unicorns different than a belief in god(s)?

Forget mythical animals, what about Allah? Or Thor? Zeus? Poseidon? What god and what holy book do I choose if not unicorns?

What about the claims that the christian god is all loving? Then why won't he heal amputees, or stop HIV, or prevent natural disasters? Before you reach for the bible to answer this, remember I could just as well get at least five different answers from five different religions. Who chooses the right answer?

What about the claims that god is all knowing? Then why the temptation and the fall from grace? Or did god know and choose to allow the serpent to tempt Eve just to inflict pain and suffering on his creation? Was he incapable of stopping Eve from eating? If so, then why is god claimed to omnipotent? A creator who can will a universe into being should be able to stop a person from eating an apple.

Then again there are billions of people who scoff at such musings and tell an entirely different story for the creation of man that has nothing at all to do with serpents and apples.

Why hell? An all loving god who wants the very best for his creation? Yet he would inflict suffering and torment for eternity? Not a lifetime, not generations, or millions of years, but for all eternity? Where is the love? Where is forgiveness? If god knew that people would never be be perfect, and had to create hell so that some could gain heaven then I say who gave him the right to choose? And if god is all-knowing then why bother? Why not just create heaven and hell already populated with the appropriate people? Or take that a step further and just create heaven with all the good people in it and don't create hell (and all of the evil contained in it). Why all this mucking around with normal life then an afterlife? Let's just skip to the end, shall we?

Or are we some kind of lab rats for his cosmic experiments? Is all this heaven and hell business a test to see who is really good and who is really evil? How come god doesn't just know the answer to that? Well intentioned people around the world do their best to protect animals used in research because they know it is the right and moral thing to do...who keeps an eye on god?

The books that would become the bible and other religious texts were largely written by primitive, iron age peoples with iron age superstitions and morals. They were written by men who believed that the earth was flat, that the sun went around the earth, and had no conception of what science would eventually teach us about this grand and wonderful universe we live in.

It is time we left the past so we can focus on changing the future and shaping the world into a place we can be proud to leave our children. We have many challenges in our future and as long as faith keeps us divided, then divided we will fail them.