I hate California

[46&2]

I love the state, but I hate the laws. Especially smog. I just sold my 94 Accord to a local family and they went to have it smogged. It passed smog but the smog tech told them it needed a smog sticker for the K&N intake. I installed it 4 years ago, and smogged it twice in that time, the most recent last december. He told them that he would not be able to pass it until a smog legal sticker was provided for the intake.

Now, seeing as I smogged it twice and no one ever said a damn thing about the intake, I am curious as to why suddenly it requires a sticker for something as simple as an air intake. The downey header on my 4runner came with a smog sticker, but the K&N came with no such sticker. The only explanation the smog guy could offer was "human error" stating that the previous two techs must have missed the fact it has an intake.....(like a chrome intake is hard to miss)

So I am just aggrivated that as soon as I go to sell my car, suddenly it requires some smoglegal sticker that was never even mentioned prior to yesterday. As I understood it from K&N's website, their intakes must go through a CARB approval process before selling. I never remember hearing anyone tell me they had a smog sticker for their intake system, and I know my kit did not come with one.

Any other californian's have stickers for their aftermarket intakes? Or did I somehow manage to slip through the cracks for 4 years.....

[kneedownnate]

Some techs just want to mess with you somehow.  When I went to smog my 80 they didn't say squat about the weber but the guy said it wasn't going to pass visual because of the egr hose I had plugged up.  I politely pointed out to him that egr hoses don't go to the heater core and he still tried to him and haw, probably cause he was a little embarassed.  I passed.  Never even said anything about the non-existent cat, maybe they actually looked at the sticker where it said "non-catylist".

My understanding is any intake mods require a carb sticker.

[fordh8r]

This is true  . You must have what's known as an EO number (executive order number) in the form of a decal placed in clear sight (preferably near the emissions label) or as a placard on the part in question so the smog tech will know that it is a CARB approved component. They can then look up the number to check it's validity (part of the smog check with such components) and see if there are any special steps required for smogging your vehicle.

The previous techs were probably more familiar with the set up you had and didn't question it since they may have seen these before and recognized the unit. Although they should have said something   to you about needing the number for future purposes. Check with K&N and see if that decal is available. I believe you should be able to get one from them if one should have come with the kit. You may need some info from the product in order to get this from them as well. Good luck, hope this helps and hope it works out for ya!

Again, this is with all aftermarket stuff that is CARB legal. Intake systems, exhaust systems, carburetors, FI systems and so on.

[46&2]

Yeah I just assumed from the previous two smog checks that there was nothing needed for the intake. I thougt the K&N products were preapproved and didnt require a sticker. I just downloaded a form from K&N to get them to send me the sticker. I dont know why it was not included with the kit 4 years ago but at least the buyers are not tripping out about the whole situation. It would have been nice if someone told me this 4 years ago before I decided to sell the car. 

[Snowtoy]

You don't need the actual sticker, just the #'s, you then print out C.A.R.B. #? on apiece of paper and tape it to the item, a phone call should have been able to get you the number.  I had to do this when the tech refused to test my '90 with the Jacob's ignition system.  He told me it didn't pass the visual since the Jacob's wasn't oem, so I disconnected it and covered it with a plastic bag and siad it is no longer visible.  I thought he was going to have a stroke he got so pissed.  The thing is he new I wasn't a spy for CARB trying to get him in trouble, my buddy ran the shop  he worked for.  I called Jacob's to get the number and they said I didn't need one, though they came up with one when I told them I was having trouble getting it smogged.  The tech didn't care that it was just a number written on a piece of paper he just had to have the number.

Also new techs, or sticklers for the law, will make sure everything is to code, even after it passes the sniffer test.  The smog tech I use is pretty relaxed about most of the stuff, as long as it passes the sniffer.

[fordh8r]

You don't need the actual sticker, just the #'s, you then print out C.A.R.B. #? on apiece of paper and tape it to the item, a phone call should have been able to get you the number. 

Sorry, I misposted there for a second  .


Nonetheless, I meant to say, even though the paper thing would work, if I were a smog tech It would be more satisfying to see a decal instead of the paper. That's just me... I would think the decal should last longer than the paper since I think they're laminated or plastic faced plus it looks a little nicer on that fancy part as well  otherwise you would have to record the number and keep it somewhere safe until next time or you'll just have to do this all over again  As long as the MFG offer the replacement decal I say get it...


Oh BTW, very good question!  This is the kinda info needed on BB's like ours...

[*FFC*]

smog tech told them it needed a smog sticker for the K&N intake.

No kidding.. I took Matt's truck to the shop a week ago.  They said it passed emissions on the computer but not visual. So I asked what the problem was.  The guy says that the 'AIR FILTER' was not emissions legal, and there was a busted EGR vacuum line.

I'm like, oh ok that's cheap and easy.  So we replace both the air filter and the egr line, and I took it back to the shop.  The guy is like "You didn't fix what we told you to fix", I argued with him (this being a different guy from the day before).  He said the 'Throttle Body Spacer' doesn't pass visual... shows it to me on the list that it's not emissions legal for an 88 460, and says he needs an EO number.  WTF is an EO number I asked him... "Uh, it's a number on the part you need to find to match the emissions for this truck".   So the Throttle Body Spacer has an EO number on it, but it doesn't match up with the emissions crap for this truck.  So we have to take the truck home AGAIN to take off or replace the throttle body spacer.... one thing after another. 

I told the guy I'm not paying for the smog again, since they gave me the wrong information in the first place, that they need to give me another free smog.


He agreed

[fordh8r]

No kidding.. I took Matt's truck to the shop a week ago.  They said it passed emissions on the computer but not visual. So I asked what the problem was.  The guy says that the 'AIR FILTER' was not emissions legal, and there was a busted EGR vacuum line.

I'm like, oh ok that's cheap and easy.  So we replace both the air filter and the egr line, and I took it back to the shop.  The guy is like "You didn't fix what we told you to fix", I argued with him (this being a different guy from the day before).  He said the 'Throttle Body Spacer' doesn't pass visual... shows it to me on the list that it's not emissions legal for an 88 460, and says he needs an EO number.  WTF is an EO number I asked him... "Uh, it's a number on the part you need to find to match the emissions for this truck".   So the Throttle Body Spacer has an EO number on it, but it doesn't match up with the emissions crap for this truck.  So we have to take the truck home AGAIN to take off or replace the throttle body spacer.... one thing after another. 

I told the guy I'm not paying for the smog again, since they gave me the wrong information in the first place, that they need to give me another free smog.


He agreed

Stick to yer guns!    Good girl! 

[*FFC*]

Stick to yer guns!    Good girl! 

I was livid... and the kid could see it

[Rocksurfer]

Don't you just love that state!! wtf does it matter if it passes smog that should be enough, that's the f'ing problem with that place and why I hate it there so much! 

[46&2]

Yeah, I can understand how some things may require a sticker but an intake seems like a silly thing to require a sticker for. Its like "You have an optima battery, that isnt OEM. Where is your smog sticker?!!?"   

gah

[Rocksurfer]

You should have seen the inside of the door frame on my 80 pickup man I had a bunch of those C.A.R.B. stickers on it.

[fordh8r]

Yeah, I can understand how some things may require a sticker but an intake seems like a silly thing to require a sticker for. Its like "You have an optima battery, that isnt OEM. Where is your smog sticker?!!?"  

gah

I'm sure you know the effects a better intake can have.  Just remember it changes the air flow characteristics which affects fueling and some vehicles don't respond the same as others in regards to still running clean. That's what they are trying to keep in perspective. It is a PITA, I know, but I'm all for clean air. Consider it one more step in the tread lightly process so future generations can enjoy then what we enjoy now.  You don't throw trash out on the trail do you?  Then why not minimize the toxins that cause problems to the environment and all living things we enjoy such as the trees, fish, children even fresh water for that matter. Don't get me wrong, I'm no tree hugger for sure otherwise I wouldn't even be in this sport... Although, I will agree, some of these laws are starting to get a bit ridiculous and it seems more political then ethical. Like policy and ethics ever compared, right?    Just my

[46&2]

I agree completely fordh8r. I just think its funny that I could have a big block 70 chevy that burns gas like a mofo, pollutes like crazy and really is a "danger" to the environment, yet because it is a 1970, it doesnt require smog. Then I come along in my 32 MPG accord, and cant get it smogged because I have an air intake (which in the scheme of things is a pretty mild modification). I am more aggrivated because of the fact that it passed smog twice with out anyone telling me I needed a sticker, then when I go to sell it, suddenly its a huge issue.

Just for the record, throwing trash on the trail is hardly comprable to emissions. I never litter but if humans want to take automobiles to the same level as not littering, then we need to take a couple steps backward a few hundred years. Minimizing emissions is the same as saying "as long as you pack out 50% of your trash you are good to go"

What we really need to do is figure out ways to better utilize what we have at our disposal and stop letting the profit and politics dominate things. Like you said, policy and ethics dont exactly go hand in hand. Just "cutting back" on emissions is not a solution. It is a start in the right direction, but unfortunatly that direction is completely controlled by profit and politics, and thus we will most likely never actually come close to a reasonable solution.

[jimbo74]

Also new techs, or sticklers for the law, will make sure everything is to code, even after it passes the sniffer test.  The smog tech I use is pretty relaxed about most of the stuff, as long as it passes the sniffer.

the intake needs the carb eo sticker... it should have come with one, all the k&ns i have dealt with have one, its a little sticker that says this intake is not to be replaced with a new filter and has the # on it.

as far as sticklers for the law, the last time i had my red truck smogged it passed the sniffer, and dyno test... well, the tech failed it.... because it supposedly was advanced 20* .. although i had it verified by myself, and and ase cert mechanic and another mechanic. i used to be a alignment/brake tech/tire monkey. my truck did idle way low, but that was not what i failed for, my truck idled @ 400 rpm....

[fordh8r]

I agree completely fordh8r. I just think its funny that I could have a big block 70 chevy that burns gas like a mofo, pollutes like crazy and really is a "danger" to the environment, yet because it is a 1970, it doesnt require smog. Then I come along in my 32 MPG accord, and cant get it smogged because I have an air intake (which in the scheme of things is a pretty mild modification). I am more aggrivated because of the fact that it passed smog twice with out anyone telling me I needed a sticker, then when I go to sell it, suddenly its a huge issue.

Just for the record, throwing trash on the trail is hardly comprable to emissions. I never litter but if humans want to take automobiles to the same level as not littering, then we need to take a couple steps backward a few hundred years. Minimizing emissions is the same as saying "as long as you pack out 50% of your trash you are good to go"

What we really need to do is figure out ways to better utilize what we have at our disposal and stop letting the profit and politics dominate things. Like you said, policy and ethics dont exactly go hand in hand. Just "cutting back" on emissions is not a solution. It is a start in the right direction, but unfortunatly that direction is completely controlled by profit and politics, and thus we will most likely never actually come close to a reasonable solution.

Well said, as far as the 70 chevy goes... yeah, although it seems strange, that would seem logical as to what you're saying. In their eyes (the gov't,  that is) they're saying that there are more Hondas (for example) than pre '75 vehicles that are being driven more often than those pre '75 vehicles. So the ones targeted are the more often driven and more commonly owned vehicles which equate to higher numbers and if they polluted terribly it would compile to a lot more and quicker. 
  As for the trash comparison I didn't mean it as a direct comparison between emissions and garbage but they do both contribute to a large scale effort in which we should all participate. That's all I meant by that comment.

[jimbo74]

i dont think having smog is really that bad, if your truck has all sorts of bypassed emissions, then you are breaking the law, your bad.. if your truck pollutes like crap because its broken, then it shold be fixed

as for it being a CA thing, there are many otehr states that now require smog, they don't all have the same requirements, but you can bet it isnt going to take them long.... look @ the old laws about drinking, 21 to drink, zero toelrance for minors, there are some states that might still let you get away with it, but for the most part, they have all adopted the same protocol regarding it

i have heard of other states with vehicle inspections that wont let a vehicle pass if it has a lift over 4" or has a solid axle swap done to it, or things like that, i don't have firsthand knowledge of these laws however

[Lady Di]

    we have no state vehicle inspections here.   

[BUDDERS]

I have a downey intake and header on my '87 yota and they both cam with C.A.R.B. stickers.....

[MiniSimp]

    we have no state vehicle inspections here.   

Same here! (since i'm registered in Tuolumne County)

[Snowtoy]

Sorry, I misposted there for a second  .


Nonetheless, I meant to say, even though the paper thing would work, if I were a smog tech It would be more satisfying to see a decal instead of the paper. That's just me... I would think the decal should last longer than the paper since I think they're laminated or plastic faced plus it looks a little nicer on that fancy part as well  otherwise you would have to record the number and keep it somewhere safe until next time or you'll just have to do this all over again:usa:

You can make t look more official than just a piece of paper.  On the one I had to make for my replacement K&N cone I used red lettering on a blue background, than wrapped it in packaging tape.  It looks as official as teh Downey one for my headers.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep a 3"x5" card in the glovebox with the C.A.R.B. #'s on them.  The plastic stickers don't hold up well to heat, the one on my ignitoin coil has already degraded beyond recognition.