Need help/advice from those much more knowledgable and wiser than I!

[BLACKDOG]

Well, it looks like I've finally gotten my dream job.  If all goes well with my background check and physical, I will be starting a fire recruit academy in Reno, NV.  That being the case, and the fact that my '91 3.0 v6 toy is my DD, I am looking for another (much more reliable vehicle)  I am thinking a few different things, so I'd like to throw them out there, and see what ya'll think.

First of all, I want a truck.  I don't fit well in cars, I feel safer in trucks, and I'd really like 4x4 for the winter months, and my endeavors into the mountains.  I don't have enough money to buy a new truck, nor do I want to go into that much debt.  I'm looking at something around the 15k range, and here is my thought process.

1) Get an early 200_ double cab toyota tacoma.  I like the looks of them, I fit fairly well (6'6"), ok gas mileage, and they're within my price range.  However, I haven't had a lot of luck finding them in the 4x4 flavor, it seems like most of them that I see are prerunners.  Also, I'd like a 5spd if possible, and those seem to be scarce as well.

2) Get a used deisel from the Big three.  I want to get a tow rig and trailer eventually, and it seems like it would be wise to get a fullsize now, and forgo getting the tacoma, and then selling it in a year or two.  From what little I know about deisels, it seems like I would get similar (if not better) gas mileage from the deisel then I would from the tacoma.  My difficulty here is what to look for drivetrain wise, years to focus on, and to avoid.  What years are problem years, motors, trannies, etc.  In the long run, I really don't care which of the big three I buy, I want the best bang for my buck.  Opinions, advice? 

Please, keep the petty ford/chevy/dodge drama out of this, I have always been a chevy guy, but I'm not going to buy a lemon just to stick with the name.  Please provide me with some good hard facts, and personal experience if possible. 

Thanks!

[JanMarie13]

Congratulations BD!! 

You can't go wrong with the early 200_ Taco.  Brian and I have an 02, grant it, it's an extended cab not a double cab but our one buddy has the exact same truck in a double cab, and both are awesome trucks.  They actually get excellent gas mileage.  I wonder if the 5-spd is just rare in the double cab version?  I seem to see it alot in the extended cab.  Either way, I'd look hard for your dream Taco.  haha.  Try cars.com and stuff like that.  Brian and I will look here in PA, and then drive it out to you and fly home. 

I know nothing about full size diesels except that we really really want one too, at some point.  I just can't imagine having a full size 4x4 as a daily driver, although I'm sure tons of people do.  Anyway, I have no personal experience to offer in that regard so I may as well not babble on about it.  haha.

Good luck! 

[CTENG in KS]

Well the obvious is that the Cummins, then the Duramax are the two better engines, steer clear of the 6.0powerstroke.  Dodge trannies are iffy at best and the older rigs aren't the best quality, but they have the Cummins.  Ford interiors, etc are better quality but look for the 7.3 IDI diesel, very reliable.  Blah blah.

I would buy a nice used Tundra.  Good occasional tow rig, good power, mileage isnt TERRIBLE.  Comfy, big enough to fit you, but not quite as huge as big 3 diesel.

[79coyotefrg]

J  i would suggest a late 90's  ford  7.3 powerstroke,  mileage is great power is awesome,  and interiors  are sweet

although the  duramax  is  nice  ,  I personally  like the  Dodge  , buddy of mine has a  04 i think with the 6 speed tranny

[Tallchevy]

I don't know too much about the Chevy Duramax or the Dodge with the Cummins but if I were looking to buy I would get the 02-03 F250-F350 Ford Super Duty 7.3 diesel with the 6 speed. A friend of mine bought one last year & recently I had to work on it. It had a loose connection under the valve cover & it set a code. He had added the Edge system which I had to disconnect to make sure it wasn't the problem. When I got it back together I drove it for a few days to make sure the problem was fixed. It had good power I thought. Then I reconnected the Edge & holy   that thing hauled   He drives it from the SF Bay to his house in Tahoe & is getting around 18 mpg depend how hard he is on the throttle. He has a 85 EFI 4Runner with 4.88, 33's & gets 15 mpg in that. You will have to look for a 6 speed cause our great state of CA wants everyone to drive automatics for emmission reasons. The 7.3 has less problems than the 6.0   I'm a Chevy guy but this set up in the Super Dookie I would buy  

[fordh8r]

BD, I like Q's like this because there are always lots varied of opinions. On the other hand, the truth of the matter is they're are all junk because if they didn't break the dealerships wouldn't have service dept's  . The real question is, which will cost the least in the near future and in the long run?  As well, if there were a perfect vehicle we would all own that one vehicle .

Not rying to be a smart  about you're question, I do fully understand your position in asking. As a mechanic I am of the opinion that if I have to fix it at least it'll be something I'm happy with and it suits my needs, in my case a Chevy... .

Be sure to buy what you like over all and go into it with the understanding of having such expectations of component failures. Used vehicles do increase the possibilities of a 'sooner than later' issue unless you happen to know the vehicles exact history, as most of us know about buying used vs. new. I do wish you luck on your purchase, and I hope you enjoy your new vehicle, whatever it may be... Good luck on your search!

I know this isn't direct info to answer your Q, although it's a view that's often ignored when looking to buy. 

[bigarms23]

I know for a fact that their is a built but still dd in reno the vehicle is a 95 isuzu rodeo with a 44/60 axle combo I drove this car and it hauls at 95 on highway 80 and it is cheaper than all the mentioned above the rig is 10,000 its the only one i seen not a bad speed for a rig on 37 krawlers

[FIREBALL]

I was about to write about how the much I like my 04 6litre Ford and that the problems that the 6.0 had early on have dwindled down to next to nothing, but after reading fordh8r's post, i've got to agree. None of them are perfect and all have their issues. Buy what works best for you.
I love the cummins and the styling of the Dodge, but didn't like the quality of the cab and interior and I didn't like that the crew cab was more of a glorified xtra cab. I didn't like the looks of the Chevy at all and I really wasn't that thrilled about the Duramax either. I really like the Ford styling and the crew cab is like an apartment without being as obnoxious as the megacab. I do a lot of towing, 33' 5th wheel (14k loaded), a 27' boat and my 4runner when I had it and I love towing with it. The power is great and the tow haul mode works awesome.
So....get what you like!!

[jimbo74]

i am with tallchevy350, i would get an 02ish 7.3l diesel ford.... i borrowed a friends of mine for a time, and man that was awesome, he had a superchips tuner in it that i got to play with a few times.... mileage was actually decent considering its a 9000 pound truck... and it had tire chirping power from a standstill, it was an automatic, but i liked it....


im not sure if that is going to fit your budget though, they are still quite expensive, even now being 5 years old, thats a lot of truck

[iNfErNaL]

Congratulations on the new gig Jason!!!!!!    As for your vehicle question,I don't have much input on what truck to buy but I would definately skip the taco and go straight to the full size tow rig.That way you can play a little more with your Toy and not have to worry about driving  it home,just throw it on the trailer and you're set.

[8D3TOY]

I have looked long and hard for a 5 speed double cab,I don't think Toyota built them.  4x4's are rare but they are out there it just comes down to finding the right combo.  I have had PSD's and the later 6.0 is pretty well worked out but it's reputation kills it for most people.  I found that I was not towing as much as I thought or hoped I would be and the price of diesel and oil and the bit of extra maint plus not really getting the awesome mileage that others claim didn't justify it anymore.  My vote Taco.

[jimbo74]

i dont think they have a 5 speed DC taco.... the 5 speeds were rare in any taco, but i am not 100% sure, but i spend time on ttora too, and i think i remember reading that the DC was only available in a really short bed and automatic.... the newest DCs have a longbed option, but to the best of my knowledge no DC was ever factory manual

[jimbo74]

[JanMarie13]

   BD.....some food for thought  ............

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?paId=236427290

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?paId=236192148


And for the grand finale....I was so excited about this one that I actually had to CALL to make SURE it was 5spd MANUAL and not 5spd auto, and OMG it IS manual   

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?paId=233919938

Oh please buy it Jason, oh please oh please oh please??   

[jimbo74]

jan, he wants a double cab tacoma, not an xtracab or a 4 runner

[JanMarie13]

jan, he wants a double cab tacoma, not an xtracab or a 4 runner

I don't care, he'll get what I tell him to get!   

No, I know Jim, I read his post, I'm just offering up some options.  He's got his 91 if he needs a bed for hauling, and you can't get much more double or extra cab than a 4Runner. 

[jimbo74]

I don't care, he'll get what I tell him to get!  

No, I know Jim, I read his post, I'm just offering up some options.  He's got his 91 if he needs a bed for hauling, and you can't get much more double or extra cab than a 4Runner. 

lol.... he could get the one i pictured above... im 6'3" tall and even i had legroom in the back of the ford.... that thing was huge.... parking sucked though.....

[red]

with the big 3 diesels heres the basics. if your looking at gm avoid 2000-2002 duramax because of injector problems that are highly likely to occur. gm has extended the warranty to 200k miles on these though and is actually honoring that warranty (wierd from the big 3). later year d-max's have that problem taken care of. if you stay in stock/mildly built form, both the zf6 manual 6 speed and the allison auto tranny are excellent tranny's. 03-up duramax are outstanding motors that last a long time and are reliable. if you get a 4x4 pay close attention to your transfercase as there is a clip in there that is known to pop out on some t-cases (some people have this problem, others never do) that will allow a hole to be rubbed into the casing. there is an upgrade to remove this problem for fairly cheap. for offroad capability, gm is IFS. good on fuel, and has been the most powerfull in stock form since it came out. 2nd fastest with no trailer, fastest pulling a load on both level ground and up a steep incline. if you go with an auto the allison surpasses all the others. the zf6 is good to, but you need to upgrade to a single mass flywheel instead of the stock dual mass.

ford-avoid the 6.0 like the plague. if you find a 2002-older f250-f350 with the 7.3 and the stick shift, its a very reliable/capable truck, although not known for a smooth ride (no big deal, but of the big 3 it easily hast the roughest ride), also gets the worst fuel economy of the diesels when empty. ford is solid front axle and leafsprung so cheap to lift and very solid offroad. body and frame are also well built just as gm's are.

dodge-cummins 6bt. depending on the year (i think 97 is the switch year) you can get either the 12 valve mechanical injection, or the 24 valve electronic injection. both are very power, very easy to upgrade, good on fuel, and will keep going and going and going and ............ with proper maintenance. if you get the old body style, expect to find cracks along where the body panels bolt to the frame. frame is good, body is crap and rather pricy to have repaired. avoid the auto, worst of the big 3 with a diesel and an auto tranny. stick options are nv4500 5 speed and nv5600 6 speed, both VERY solid manual tranny's. decent ride, coil over front suspension solid axle and is not very cheap to lift because of it. fastest with no load, 2nd fastest with load on both flat/incline. if you go dodge stay away from the 4x4's with the dial to enguage 4x4. their having a problem with the t-case deciding to shift into 4low whenever it wants to.

if u wanna know more pm me, i'm a diesel fanatic lol. fuel economy empty is basicly the same between the duramax and the cummins, the powerstroke is a few mpg behind (usually 3-4mpg average on the highway).

[red]

jimbo i gotta agree with you on parking the fords, they really are the worst lol. the steering wheel takes so many frieking turns in each direction!!! my friend scott has a 97 f250 (great truck) extended cab long bed, requires roughly 4 turns in either direction of the steering wheel to reach full turn. you can adjust the steering box, then your down to about 3 each way (better but still the worst). turning radius is also the largest on the fords, gm has the tightest (ifs coming into play on that). if your looking for a crew cab, outright the ford has the most cab room in their 2000ish body, followed by gm, then dodge. in the 90's bodies the gm's have the most room, then ford, last dodge (but this body style gm has the 6.5L. its a light duty diesel, towing another vehicle is no problem with it, but its not near as hard of a worker as the 7.3L from ford or the cummins).

body space-ford, gm, dodge
engine torque-gm, dodge, ford
fuel economy-gm/dodge, ford
manual tranny-dodge, gm/ford
auto tranny-gm, ford, dodge
lift kit cost-gm, dodge, ford (highest to lowest)
quality of cab-ford, gm, dodge
frame-gm/ford, dodge
reliability throughout the entire vehicle-varies, but all 3 will easily make over 200k miles with basic maintenance. if you decide to crank up the power to as high as possible, currently the duramax has the highest with over 2100ft/lbs of torque, and is street legal/driven daily. guy calls his truck "nasty girl", its sick!!! with reliability when cranked up significantly, the cummins is the most reliable, then the duramax, then the 7.3 (i'm talking cranked over 1,200 ft/lbs of torque). keep in mind with diesels that the more air that comes in/out, the happier the motor is. single 4" exhaust and an air intake on any of these motors will make it much happier.

[BLACKDOG]

Red, I'm short on time right now, but I'll probably be PMing you tonight  

Thanks to all for the information, I really appreciate it.

Fordh8er- appreciate the insight, thats why I'm asking the questions.  You head the nail on the head here: 

The real question is, which will cost the least in the near future and in the long run?

My big concern is short term, probationary period in the Fire Service is not a good time to have vehicle problems.  I want to minimize those chances as much as possible.  I would never buy something I wouldn't like (which is why I've narrowed it down this far) but I do want to stay away from vehicles that have been proven over the years to have large components(engine, tranny)  more prone to failure (ex. 6.0)

BTW, I do know the double cab 5spds exist, they are just very rare.  I've ridden in one, and seen another on the lot a few years ago. 

Bigarms: I'm not looking for a built rig, I have a semibuilt one that has been my DD for 4 years now.   I'm fully aware of rigs that are capable DDs.  Mine is not, and I'm not going to put the money into it to make it that way.  At this time in my life, I cannot afford to rely on a vehicle that has failed me in the past.  As much as I love my truck,  its time has come to be retired to primarily trail duty, especially for the next year or so. 

CTENG, good idea on the tundra.  hadn't really thought about it for some reason, I'll have to do a bit of research

[Rocksurfer]

Duramax!! Just remember to get a later model the 1st duramax's are a pain, just to work on the injectors you have to pull the heads, later years they revised them to be more pocketbook friendly. Now if you can find a Chevy with the Detroit engine those are sweet and easier to work on since it is not electrically injected. The Detroit was completely manually injected. I think they only did those for a couple years before they went with the Izusu's.

[red]

no the detroit engines came with both electronically controlled injection and mechanical injection. however, their injector setup is the same between both. reason? duramax is on what is known as a common rail injection (as is the new 6.7L cummins and the 6.0 and 6.4L powerstroke). common rail is a pain in the butt to replace injectors i agree. the detroit diesels that gm used (the 6.2L and the 6.5L) were not common rail injection (hence the reason the motor is so loud, the injectors open when fuel is forced into it so hard that the nozzle finally opens unlike a common rail which opens when the computer tells it to). the way the detroit diesels (and the 5.9L cummins, and the 7.3L powerstroke) is the fuel comes from the tank, to the lift pump, then to the injection pump. from the injection pump there is a seperate fuel line to each seperate fuel injector. as the engine runs and the pump turns fuel is sent into the injection pump at low pressure, and the pump sends the fuel through each seperate fuel line at much higher pressure (160psi or higher, fuel injection in a gasoline engine is at 40-50psi, carb is around 15). differance on a common rail is-fuel goes from the tank, to the lift pump, to the injection pump, then into the common rail (metal fuel line that leads to all injectors). when the sensors tell the computer that its time to send fuel to a certain cylinder, the computer opens that fuel injector.

now if money is tight (when is it never) and your only towing light (10k pounds or less) then going with a 90's era chevy/gmc 6.5L is a pretty good choice whether you go with automatic or stick (gm had the most durable auto at this time, and their 5 speed manual is the same manual behind the cummins at this time with a 12" clutch instead of a 13" clutch). 415ft/lbs of torque is roughly the average of this motor (slightly lower in 93 when it was mechanical injection and just coming out, slightly higher around 1999 in its last year although some 2000 models still had it, and the H1 was offered with it until 2004). 2 problems with this motor that it was NOTORIOUS for and thus gave it a bad reputation; 1. the PMD (VERY important part of the electronic fuel injection system, 93 models dont have this and 93 is the best year if you can find it) was located on the top of the engine, and this sensor doesnt like heat (hmmmm, idiots to place it there). when this unit starts going bad you know about it. the fix is to extend the wires and get a heat sink for it and locate it out of the engine bay. many people relocate it inside of the front bumper because there are ventilation holes in the bumper, and its protected from road debree/water. the other problem was fixed on 1997-up 6.5L diesels and that is the cooling system. there is a kit for the older models that costs roughly 325 bucks and fixes this, requires replacing your thermostat housing and upper radiator hose. voila, there goes the 2 things that ruined the reputation of this motor. now is it as reliable in really hard working situations as the 7.3L or the cummins? no. it is a light duty diesel, built for good fuel economy and 1/2 ton-light duty 3/4 ton work. but it does get the best fuel economy of the big 3, but wont make near as much power as either of those motors. one thing about ANY DIESELS, WATCH YOUR COOLANT TEMP AND GET AN EXHAUST TEMP GUAGE. diesels are very picky about that, expecially the detroit diesels.

[snowshoebrue]

personally i think that the 6.5 chevy and 6.9 fords suck.  i driven both and thought that they were gutless.  my 98 24valve is nice does its job and pulls the yota just fine.  i am however upgrading to a high output 2003 up common rail. 

[red]

i have to agree about the ford 6.9L from the 80's was gutless, but it does have more power than the gm 6.2L from the same time frame lol. yes, the 6.5 compared to the cummins, cummins will walk all over the 6.5 without a second thought. question though, why not get injectors, open up the intake/exhaust, and get a chip on your 98?

[red]

reason i mentioned the 6.5 is because when it comes to cost of diesel vehicles from the 90's, usually gm's are cheaper because of the bad rap they got from that motor. if your not towing very heavy a 6.5 is just fine, but if your towing heavy on a consistant basis and want a 90's era diesel (heavy meaning over 10k pounds) then the 6.5 would be a bad choice. my dad has a 95 gmc yukon with the 6.5L diesel and when he bought it the PMD went bad. very simple fix, took us about 45 minutes (including the search on how to route the wires). hasnt given him any problems, and starts much better in cold weather than my friends 97 f250. reason for that though is the 6.5L has a compression ratio of 21:1, the 7.3L is at 18:1 just like all other turbo diesels from these trucks. lower compression allows for more power, but means slightly less fuel economy.

nomatter which of these engines you get, they will all make you feel like you've been driving a snail (expecially with any upgrades).

[snowshoebrue]

 question though, why not get injectors, open up the intake/exhaust, and get a chip on your 98?
[/quote]

because i did that stuff and still only made 350hp. 650ft/lb give or take. do that stuff to a truck that make 300-325 stock and your looking at 400+ hp and 850+ft/lb.  plus i want the full 4 doors instead of the suicide doors in the rear.  really there is nothing wrong with my truck other than the fact that it is almost 10 years old and i want a new one.

[fordh8r]

with the big 3 diesels heres the basics. if your looking at gm avoid 2000-2002 duramax because of injector problems that are highly likely to occur. gm has extended the warranty to 200k miles on these though and is actually honoring that warranty (wierd from the big 3). later year d-max's have that problem taken care of. if you stay in stock/mildly built form, both the zf6 manual 6 speed and the allison auto tranny are excellent tranny's. 03-up duramax are outstanding motors that last a long time and are reliable. if you get a 4x4 pay close attention to your transfercase as there is a clip in there that is known to pop out on some t-cases (some people have this problem, others never do) that will allow a hole to be rubbed into the casing. there is an upgrade to remove this problem for fairly cheap. for offroad capability, gm is IFS. good on fuel, and has been the most powerfull in stock form since it came out. 2nd fastest with no trailer, fastest pulling a load on both level ground and up a steep incline. if you go with an auto the allison surpasses all the others. the zf6 is good to, but you need to upgrade to a single mass flywheel instead of the stock dual mass.

ford-avoid the 6.0 like the plague. if you find a 2002-older f250-f350 with the 7.3 and the stick shift, its a very reliable/capable truck, although not known for a smooth ride (no big deal, but of the big 3 it easily hast the roughest ride), also gets the worst fuel economy of the diesels when empty. ford is solid front axle and leafsprung so cheap to lift and very solid offroad. body and frame are also well built just as gm's are.

dodge-cummins 6bt. depending on the year (i think 97 is the switch year) you can get either the 12 valve mechanical injection, or the 24 valve electronic injection. both are very power, very easy to upgrade, good on fuel, and will keep going and going and going and ............ with proper maintenance. if you get the old body style, expect to find cracks along where the body panels bolt to the frame. frame is good, body is crap and rather pricy to have repaired. avoid the auto, worst of the big 3 with a diesel and an auto tranny. stick options are nv4500 5 speed and nv5600 6 speed, both VERY solid manual tranny's. decent ride, coil over front suspension solid axle and is not very cheap to lift because of it. fastest with no load, 2nd fastest with load on both flat/incline. if you go dodge stay away from the 4x4's with the dial to enguage 4x4. their having a problem with the t-case deciding to shift into 4low whenever it wants to.

if u wanna know more pm me, i'm a diesel fanatic lol. fuel economy empty is basicly the same between the duramax and the cummins, the powerstroke is a few mpg behind (usually 3-4mpg average on the highway).

I'm with you on this one Red  . I have seen a lot of the problems you mentioned on all these vehicles and personally I would still buy the GM myself having been a GM fan all along. I do like the styling myself regardless of what others think of it. The only thing I wish they would do from the factory is at least a SA option. If not, there's always SAS, right?  What the heck, it's only money and you can't take it with you when you're gone!

[red]

I'm with you on this one Red  . I have seen a lot of the problems you mentioned on all these vehicles and personally I would still buy the GM myself having been a GM fan all along. I do like the styling myself regardless of what others think of it. The only thing I wish they would do from the factory is at least a SA option. If not, there's always SAS, right?  What the heck, it's only money and you can't take it with you when you're gone!

i personally like the GMC styling, but not the chevy (thats my preferance). gm needs to put a solid axle under at least the 1 tons, preferably the 3/4 tons but they havent been listening to their customers about that. gm has also decided to discontinue the zf6 manual tranny because they didnt have enough people request it on a continuous basis. all the brands have their problems and their upsides, the latest problems are actually kinda interesting. fords new 6.4 had a problem with emissions because programmers forgot to add another program for the exhaust system (new emissions are screwed up, lowers fuel economy and sucks up some power) and ended up with people having a flame come shooting out of their exhaust sometimes after the truck has warmed up and is at idle for an extended period of time (rush hour traffic for example). dodge has their transfercase with the knob selection shifting into 4 low when your driving, and likes to do this at 50+mph. has been snapping the input shaft into the transfercase and causing the t-case to shift so hard that its snapping off of its mounts and being tossed around under the truck. they have had a few injuries to passengers in the vehicle from this one as the t-case or driveshaft hits the floorboards and sometimes rips through the floorboard. gm has had a few problems with the airbag system on their 07 models with the side airbags deploying at low speed turns. these problems are on 07 models for ford/gm (new gm body style, not the 07 classic. its the gm900 platform that is having this problem), dodge is having this problem in 06-07 models, if you have a lever shifted t-case in the dodge no worries.

[fordh8r]

If GM would get their head outa their  and go back to SA for their heavier trucks and a manual t/case shifter I'd go get one right now, no hesitations.     The problems that ford and dodge both have will never gain my interest to buy either one, thank God, since I would hate to buy outside my circle of interests  .

[BLACKDOG]

So can any tell me what they preferred, the IFS or the SA, and why?  I prefer the SA, but I was curious to see what people had experienced with each, and what they preferred.

Right now, I'm leaning toward an early 2000's F250 with the 7.3  I'd really like to find one with the manual, but that is hit and miss right now.