Topic: 4x4 girl part 2 help

[4x4 Bad Girl]

i really do like the 82 more. i also find a lot more likes to them from what i read. like the hybrid option with having to do no modifications to do it. i really really really like the round head lights more then the square ones. everyone around here that has a truck has square head lights i like being the only one with round ones. also the engine is valuable to us (frank and me). frank says it will should easy to do the pre swap process on the 76,77,78 celica he wants to do for his mom. we would use it make sure it fits good in the other car and then take it out and put it back in this truck. for some reason the 84+ engine might now work in the celica frank says from his understanding and what he read.

BUT also this truck needs a lot of work. new carb, cab floors need fixed, engine needs rebuild cause its leaking 1/2 quart oil in 2 days of driving very little (i have the winter to do this). its comming from the valve cover gasket and oil pan, clutch slips, needs parking brake and complete assembly, it also needs brake all the way around, the hood doesnt latch, nothing blocking it, wont latch even if you slam it and it (i can use hood pins), might need a frame and if it doesnt then i need to take the whole truck apart just to sand down and paint the frame to prevent more rust. i dont really like the fenders, really all i like is the round headlights and if i can i want to keep them.

more about the frame rust: the rust on the frame is the sqares that are on the frame that the cab and bed bolt too. the ones on the left side are really bad. 2 of them have really really big bolts cause the are around the holes are rusted. a couple of the other ones have rust around the welds and all around the squares. the frame has rusted threw about 1/3 of the way around the front and under the doors and 2/5 around back of truck.

i called the guy and he says he dont know what efi means. i told him im sure that means fuel injected and he says no its carb. he says its not sr5 from what he knows, he says all has speedo (doesnt work), has tach tach works, voltage meter, he said he will give me a newer cluster for it too so everything will work but i might need new sending units. its a 4x4, he says the back window is sealed shut but used to be slider just leaked and wouldnt close right, he said no its half axle 1/2 ton, it has tube bumpers he made for it that are black, he says it had engine, transmission and gas tank sheilds but he took them off and dont have them, the interior has tears on seat and carpet is really stained, the windows are power but do not work, he sayed he cant find parts for them and thinks they are aftermarket. he says it also needs radiator hoses, brake hoses. a/c dont work, heater blower motor dont work, has engine bloack heater he says that is not stock, he also told me that it did not pass emissions, and he thinks that something might be wrong with engine cause the person who had it before him put radiator fluid in where oil goes and it stopped running, but he got it and drained the oil and put new oil in it but it makes a noise that might be the lifters. 

so it needs work too. it might have warped engine heads. i dont trust this guys, he sayed he wants both of mine to make a 4x4 motorhome or something.

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

i have these question about the 20r/22r hybrid and 20r motor...
will the WEBER 32/36 DGEV-IC carb work on both engines??
will the WEBER 32/36 DGEV-IC work on the 22r with the 20r parts moved over making it a 20/22r hybrid.

I am asking because I need to pull the 22r and rebuild it and replace it will the 20r temp for the winter so i can still have some fun with it. i dont want to have to buy 2 carbs and if they dont work together then i need to buy the one that will work with the hybrid one its built.

the 20r has really no problems except it needs a tune up. it also only has 46,340 miles on it. it dont leak oil or none of that. so i am going to put the 20r engine in the 82 4x4 truck for the winter, put the 22r stuff i dont need on it to replace what ever i take off. give it a tune up and just run it in the truck while im rebuilding the 22r then sell it once i am done with it if it is worth anything. i know i will need a 22r oil pan for the 20r motor to work in place of the 22r so i will buy an extra one cause they are like $10. do i need anything else? i did not read anywhere that i did.

i want to rebuild the motor cause it needs gaskets, its leaking oil like crazy. it has 250,000 miles on it so it would not be a bad idea to extend its life. also i want to get some better parts for it to get more horsepower along with the 20r parts cause whats the sence in bringing it all back to stock and upgrading later? extra HP will help me on the highway so i can get up to 50mph and get there easyer. 65 more prefered so can stay up with traffic and i dont think i will have a problem getting it to at least that. it will also help me when im not on the road and am offroading.

one other thing really quick. will the 4speed from the 20r go into the other pickup along with the 20r motor? i mean will it mount up the same or will i need to do anything??

thank you guys. i'm reading everything i can find. if you have any more stuff about the 20r/22r hybrid let me know cause i only know so much. thank you *Candie*

[79coyotefrg]

Candie,  the weber  adapters  have provisions for boththe  20R  intake manifold  and the 22R  so  1 carb is all you need

all you need  is to pull the 22R out,  swap  the oilpan  (4x4  and 2wd  are different , 20R and 22R  are the same, )  from the 22R you have onto the 20R  get a 1200 pound  clutch from Marlin,  this is what i run and have been running for 30,000  miles  and still has a very firm grip


everything from the 20R  engine will bolt to the 22R,  flywheel to crank pully,   when you build the 22R  just build the block strong,   crank,pistons rods, and bearings,  EVERYTHING else you put on the new engine will be for a 20R,  timing set, timing cover oil pump,  head,

you will want the 22R  rocker arms,  but  you can  get a cam from LCEngineering  in the .430  - .450 lift area  for the 20R.  and this cam will  go with the head when you install it on the new engine

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

alright. gee. lol. there a lot more involved in the 20r hybrid then i though. i dont see why no one just uses the 20r. whats better on the 22r block if your going to put everything on it from a 20r and change all the internals?

well i put an ad on craigslist.org a few days ago and im getting random calls on parts. listion to this. this guy paul who is about 1 1/2hours from me has a ford taurus wagon.... yes ford taurus wagon. he says its on a toyota frame with a 22r engine. he says it was his project but it got t-boned and he doesnt have the heart to rebuild it. he doesnt know the year of the doner truck but he sayed the frame is good and has been painted. he has no way of finding out the year of the donor truck. so i am going to take a ton of measurements off my frame and go measure it and see what comes out. according to him its easyer to lift a toyota pickup then a ford taurus..... props for idea and putting the mind to work but i just cant picture grandmas station wagon in air. grandmas wagon was sposed to be draging on the ground, right? *candie*

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

LCEngineering has long blocks and short blocks. fully modified engine w/ 20r head is sounding good right now. just not cost effective.

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

alright so the bottom end of the 22r is better and the top end of the 20r is better. the 2 together make it bullet proof. alright. hehe. im leaving here in a second to go check out this ford taurus wagon, hehe.

[79coyotefrg]

alright so the bottom end of the 22r is better and the top end of the 20r is better. the 2 together make it bullet proof. alright. hehe. im leaving here in a second to go check out this ford taurus wagon, hehe.

  the only difference  is the 22R  has a larger  bore piston =  more displacement

you could  bore the 20R block .180 but 

the crank and rods  are all the same,  just the size of the piston is different

[79coyotefrg]

stock 20R  is  88.5 mm bore
stock 22R  is  92mm bore

[rage]

That Taurus wagon thing sounds really cool, almost as cool as a lifted RV yoda with dually swampers. if the condition is good on all the yoda parts under the wagon, it would probably be cost effective to put your 82 body on it and then try your hardest to forget that a taurus ever had anything to do with a yoda.

[rage]

Oh yeah, and the 85 should be forgotten about too. that thing sounds like it sucks, especially if you can't even trust the seller.

[79coyotefrg]

Oh yeah, and the 85 should be forgotten about too. that thing sounds like it sucks, especially if you can't even trust the seller.

[TRHS1980]

really all i like is the round headlights and if i can i want to keep them.

If you like the round headlight enough I'm sure you could adapt them into the 85

the 20r has really no problems except it needs a tune up. it also only has 46,340 miles on it.

  Are you sure those are the actual miles... usually with toyota's 99,999 mile meter's, you'd add at least a one if not a two or three in front... 

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

The sable has been better days. The frame doesnt look anything like the frame for the pickup and it has been modifed. So I didnt bother with it.

I've got the idea of the 20r/22r swap down now . I know a great deal on it now. thank you guys : )!

I do have one question though. you guys told me i could swap in and swap out the 20r right? well. i got a question about the wireharness. I have read a few walk thru conversion swaps from 20r to 22r and a few of them talked about taking out the wire harness out of the car the engine came out of, usially a celica. Others said to use a painless wireharness to make everything really easy. does anyone know about this? if its the same engine then what reason would you have to change wireharnesses??

Another question I still have is with the 20/22r hybrid what emissions items does it effect? im thinking some of the emissions items wont be hooked up, and so I can cut some un-needed wires out? is there any other emissions items that I could disable/ remove to get more power? which ones and how? I was told on these toyotas if i take off the Catalytic Converter it will give me more power. some how it really effects these engines. i would just like to have that cleared up for when i do Exhaust. 2.5" sounds good I think, you agree?

oh and the miles on the camper, yea im sure. hehe. the car fax on the camper is something like this:

1rst owner registers it 03/ 1979 registered having 53 miles on camper
2nd owner registers it 08/ 1983 registered having 43,203 miles on camper

well the owner died 2 years after buying it and rarely used it. this is what the owners son told Frank. This matches up with the car fax but Frank doesnt trust anyone and so he asked some of the people in the neighborhood after getting the deal on it and they all confirm the old man passed away in the early 80's.

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

i can get a 2.5" Catalytic Converter so its not going to be like 2.5" to 1.25" to 2.5" to 2.5".____its going to be 2.5" continuous. i just never saw how a cat effected preformance. maby im wrong. i only have seen how much it helps with getting rid of exhaust fumes and smoke.

[rage]

if you gotta have the cat due to state laws or tree huggin, then keep it. if you don't gotta have it then throw it away. it is a little bit restrictive. personally, i keep my cat cause the backfire in my truck blew the muffler clean off right at the inlet, so the cat keeps me quiet.

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

hey there, getting my engine rebuild kit and some parts from lcengineering on friday. i cant wait to tell you what i get.

ok. here is another question. i got another email about a "frame". 1991 frame with 83 body and bed fitted on it. the guy says the head lights from 79 would be an easy swap cause everything is the same except the housing for the headlights that make the 83 lights square. it has some work already done and is in better shape the what I got. it also has a bed that is suposed to be in decent shape. some other parts come with it too he said. suspentions, brakes, tires & wheels, some body pieces from the 91. he said the gap between the cab and bed have been filled so it looks more stock.

BUT no engine or tranny and a universal wireharness. he says it used to have a 22re. but he sayed my pre 84 22r engine will work NOT work. that it does not bolt the same.

you guys told me 20r and 22r are the same and everything bolts up the same. now, how about 22re? i looked on LCengineering and I see engines for: 77-79 20r, 79-80 20r, 81-84 22r, 85-95 22r, 85-95 22re. i know the 20r and first 22r are interchangable. why would they all of a sudden change? i think this guy has got beans bouncing around in his head.

also is there anything about these engines that would make them not work on a universal wireharness? someone in my house says there is nothing and it will work just fine, but i just want to make sure first.

thanks again *Candie*

[rage]

refer back to that toysport article, it says that in 1984 1/2 the motor mounts changed on the 22r. my 84 22r has provisions for both mounts and it is the "early" block. i am not really sure on all the details of the 1984 motor change, i just know there was one.

[79coyotefrg]

the 84 1/2  on blocks  where shorter  and designed  for the  later turbo

the 22RE WILL NOT  WORK WITH  EARLY 22R  OR 20R STUFF

only stuff like valve covers  rocker arms, starters,  nothing internal 

[Gittinit]

the 84 1/2  on blocks  where shorter  and designed  for the  later turbo

the 22RE WILL NOT  WORK WITH  EARLY 22R  OR 20R STUFF

only stuff like valve covers  rocker arms, starters,  nothing internal 

Thats not true, but I don't want to confuse the girl by rambling. The crank and connecting rods should be the same. I am useing a 20r crank and connecting rods in my short deck 22r. Differences will be in the timing cover, head, exhaust manifolds ,oil pump drive, dual or single row timing cover, and I am shure tons more. Don't be discouraged about the differences most are minor. Instead of tracking down a new frame in the rust belt, you could always patch repair and fabricate new if it was a total waste.

[Gittinit]

BUT no engine or tranny and a universal wireharness. he says it used to have a 22re. but he sayed my pre 84 22r engine will work NOT work. that it does not bolt the same.


thanks again *Candie*

The only thing that stands out in my head about the 1st gen to 3rd gen is the length of the powertrain. For a comlete bolt in swap, you would need a trans from an 85 or newer toy becouse they are a little longer. The trans crossmember whith your first gen drivetrain won't work in the origonal location on a latter model frame. As far as the motor, it should bolt right up to the original motor mounts, if both are 4cyl trucks. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[79coyotefrg]

Thats not true, but I don't want to confuse the girl by rambling. The crank and connecting rods should be the same. I am useing a 20r crank and connecting rods in my short deck 22r. Differences will be in the timing cover, head, exhaust manifolds ,oil pump drive, dual or single row timing cover, and I am shure tons more. Don't be discouraged about the differences most are minor. Instead of tracking down a new frame in the rust belt, you could always patch repair and fabricate new if it was a total waste.

  your  confusing the poor girl,  i told her to use  the 22R block  and EVERYTHING else from the 20R 
EXCEPT  the  exhaust, rockers  and valve cover

[TRHS1980]

When I swapped the 22R block in my 1st gen, I had to grab a different motor mount tower for, I believe it was, the passanger side. I know for a fact the one of the towers wouldn't line up correctly... it was off by very little and probably could have been modified to work, but it was easier for me to just drop by calmini. One side is still stock 20R tower and one side is from early 22R. The motor mounts are all the same though (the rubber part).

[TRHS1980]

You know, now that I think of it, the stock 20R tower I used had to be drilled out a little bit to make it work.

[79coyotefrg]

You know, now that I think of it, the stock 20R tower I used had to be drilled out a little bit to make it work.

yea,  seems like i knotched  mine with a angle grinder,

little stuff,  but almost everything  works

[4x4 Bad Girl [OP]]

hey guys,
1 days left for me to start buying parts. so i have made some decisions. im sticking with the 79-83 body. im going to be using the 20r/22r hybrid engine. the hunt for a new frame, and replacement cab floor/ cab, or bed in the local area failed. but not a problem it was just to make things easyer.

i will cut out the stock floor and custom make one, or fit one in like the floor swap you guys showed me. maby used the camper floor and convert it to 4x4. for the floor I have a lot of options.

the bed is probly the least of my worrys right now. its an offroad truck and wont have to be perfect. i could also make my own later down the road or i just might come across one in good/ better shape then what I have.

now the frame. since the rust/ rot is really bad, i dont want to use it as my foundation. I have also considered that the camper frame might be a big waste of time. i'll have to completely striping it down then bolt everything onto it from the 4x4, just to see if it is possible to use it. then possibly having to custom fit the 4x4 related parts. i also might have to undo any camper related modifications. In the end it might just not work not matter the modifications i do to it. so...

i talked to Frank about the problem. he gave it some thought and called his buddy Bill who has been a hot rod specialist since the 50's. Bill also owns The Roadster Shop in Elgin, Illinois and custom makes a lot of parts for unique applications, but usially hot rods. Bill said he would have no problem MAKING a custom frame for the truck. He can do a basic frame replacement all the way to a all out custom frame. he told me that anything I can dream of he can do. all i have to do is do some research. find out what I want. he will also give me some starting sugestions and round about prices.

The only problems are that he is really backed up right now, it might be expensive depending on what i get, we would have to transport the frame we have down to him and thats a 10 hour drive, shipping it would be the cost of shipping a car and is exspencive also.

he gave me some alternatives. he going to email me when he gets home with a more details. he will also forward the process of making a frame from nothing, so i may consider the option of making my own frame. if i made my own frame i would save on the building costs, shipping costs shipping my frame there and that frame back and would give me more money to invest in my project. in return it may be just as if not more of a hassle then using the campers frame.

i will wait for his email to see the work involved in making my own. i might consider that option. if not i will have to send the frame to make a duplicate. If i want something far out and beyond i will have to send the truck to him to avoid clearence problems. Frank says if i want a customized frame i should just find and buy a junk truck with the same frame near him and let him have that one so i could still work on the truck while I wait and save time/ money on tranporting.

that would probly be the simplest option and give me another truck for parts but because im doing the hybrid and will have some other non stock parts I think its best if I get everything motor and drivetrain related done and other parts installed and send him the truck when im done. i want to do this so things like the 20r parts, custom exhaust, side steps, custom bumpers.... wont effect where the new parts will be installed and wont create any clearence problems.

he can also finish, fix, do any body work for me. you have to remember i am still a girl and my experience is motor and transmissions related. i worked with mostly fuel injected cars. i can also replace most stock panels, but know little about repairing and patching problem spots. i will learn though. there are a few old cars that are worth nothing in the backyard that used to be Jeff's so i will practice on those. i am also taking a class with frank on welding since he wants to learn how to weld aluminum and i want to just learn how to weld period. but anywho i will have to wait till after the winter season to get fully involved. i will start buying parts tommarow, remove the engines and transmissions on saterday, and hopefully if parts are in start some work next weekend.

im waiting on bills email. as soon as i get it I will post it. i know some of you guys might be in need of a new frame or would like the completly customized option so i will make sure you have all the details. *candie*

[Gittinit]

  your  confusing the poor girl,  i told her to use  the 22R block  and EVERYTHING else from the 20R 
EXCEPT  the  exhaust, rockers  and valve cover

I thought that I might and had second thoughts about posting.  Sorry!

[kneedownnate]

  your  confusing the poor girl,  i told her to use  the 22R block  and EVERYTHING else from the 20R 
EXCEPT  the  exhaust, rockers  and valve cover

You know, everybody says 22rs are supposed to have the aluminum rockers, but of the 2 sets of 22r rockers I have both are steel.  I might hafta run over to pnp this weekend and do some digging

[79coyotefrg]

you should  cause ive never seen a 22R  that didnt have the alum rockers 

they probably  put 20R rockers  on yours  cause they was cheap

[79coyotefrg]

anybody notice Candie  dont write short posts

[kneedownnate]

Yup, I tried reading them but drifter off......


damn short attention span