Blackdiamond (Gup-C build-up)

[blackdiamond]

This is mrsbd.  I can't post pics under my account.  Kinda annoying.  Anyway....the pics you've been waiting for.  From every angle.  The first is in gotrocks driveway before the break-in 320 miles.  The rest are here.

Looking back at my build thread, I've had the Gup-C for just over 10 years!  It had a few bugs to work out initially, but has been "gotrocks" solid from then on.  It was more than 7 years before I had any significant expenses and they were new tires and traction bar (should have skipped that project).

[blackdiamond]

Well, the conversation for an internal cage has begun.  I'm just not 100% comfortable with my kids being in the back without a cage.  I wouldn't put one in for me, but now that they are at the age where they are likely to be wheeling it's just a smart thing to do for their safety.

[joeyf]

A cage is always a good idea. A couple things you might won't to take in mind when you start. Don't go any bigger than 1.50 and if you are making it yourself or having someone local. Use 1.25 above the head, you will need all the room you can get.

I used 1.75 on my 4runner and made it very tight to the top. But it's still to big for anyone over 5'-6" to sit in the back.

[H8PVMNT]

Next time I do a cage I am going to the fire wall with the front runners instead of the floor.  I have an old DOM all pro cage kit from way back when and it's fine except for getting my boots in past the cage.  Even if you just dropped down through the dash it would be better.  I do occasionally nearly knock myself out on it getting in, even with the padding . No cure for stupid though.

[mudmaster]

So you aren't concerned for your own safety??

[blackdiamond]

So you aren't concerned for your own safety??

I don't consider that I put myself at risk to a level requiring a roll cage or I would have one already.

[mudmaster]

  happens though......

[blackdiamond]

happens though......

It certainly can. I have always had way more concern for my safety on the drive to and from Moab than anything that I would do off road.  I have never been concerned about a slow roll and am very calculated when putting myself at risk for something more.

I look at getting a cage as a hassle with all the work that goes into it,  but also necessary with the kids riding in the back.  It isn't on my list of mods that excite me.

[mudmaster]

A cage is a necessity in my opinion. Sounds like you plan to get one now though. Anyone in particular in mind?

[:)bestgen4runner]

This would be My vote.
Same guys that made My rear bumper. Quality!!!!!!!!!

[mudmaster]

When are you getting one??

[redneckcustoms13]

Got my vote. That's a tough sob!

[blackdiamond]

A cage is a necessity in my opinion. Sounds like you plan to get one now though. Anyone in particular in mind?

4x Innovations would be the obvious choice.  I'm not even sure if there's another kit on the market these days?  I can't see how it would be possible for a custom cage to be more affordable and I'm looking for a high value product.

Chris is likely planning to install a cage himself, otherwise, I would suggest we try to put the 4Runners in the same shop and give them an opportunity to learn from one to the next and share any potential savings.

[mudmaster]

I had mine done by a local fab guy (not a kit). It turned out to be cheaper than buying a kit and then doing the work.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I won't be installing it Myself.
I have no experience with tube bending.
Plus, I have very high quality standards. 
I want My cage on the outside.
I honestly don't think you could do better than a 4x cage. Very hard to beat.
I have spoken to Adam a couple of times when I ordered My bumper and again when I received it. He is a great guy.

[Willard]

I bought my cage from 4X and it was worth the money and no sales tax. It took work to install, but I would rather weld t my self then rely on someone else's welds.


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[THK Matt]

Speaking of someone elses welds, we've seen what relying on someone elses welds gets you.... recently.

[:)bestgen4runner]

 

Speaking of someone elses welds, we've seen what relying on someone elses welds gets you.... recently.

Ouch! 

[blackdiamond]

Speaking of someone elses welds, we've seen what relying on someone elses welds gets you.... recently.

Well, I wouldn't rely on my welds.  I have already emailed the Bayview4x4.com since they have done quite a bit of work for me over the years and they have always treated me well and done excellent work.  If they are willing to do a cage I would trust it.

Let's not drag that into this discussion. 

[joeyf]

Hopefully Bayview can get somthing going for you. If not those guys rod and customs would be my choice. They put out great work and have even built a featured rig on CRAWL. Like I mentioned before,  stay away from 1.75 if you find someone local to make it. You are more than welcome to stop by and look over my cage to see why.

[Willard]

I have 1.75 in my 2nd gen and I am 5'9" and I have never hit my head one time. The rear seating is a little tighter, but not that bad.


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[blackdiamond]

Hopefully Bayview can get somthing going for you. If not those guys rod and customs would be my choice. They put out great work and have even built a featured rig on CRAWL. Like I mentioned before,  stay away from 1.75 if you find someone local to make it. You are more than welcome to stop by and look over my cage to see why.

I will check them out and certainly would consider smaller tubing. I am 6'-0" so will likely have some run-ins with a cage.

I like the idea of getting a cab cage built and then connecting to the factory roll bar in the back. It would assure that my soft top would fit.

[300k]

Does it really matter? I've seen stars from the stock plastic hand holds just by romping a speed bump

[mudmaster]

I'm 6'2" and have 1.75 in my first gen and it isn't an issue.

[blackdiamond]

So far I have heard back from two of the three places that I contacted and I called the third today.  I'll post what I know for now.

(1) www.xo-fab.com located in Enumclaw, WA

<http://shop-xo-fab-com.3dcartstores.com/84-89-Toyota-4Runner-DIY-Cage-Kit-_p_1757.html>

They sell the linked DIY kit for $599 and estimated the install to be from $540 to $810.  I am trying confirm the details for the range but know it doesn't include painting the cage.   I don't see any advantage of going with a 4x Innovation kit rather than what they do in-house.

From the website it's clear that welding is a significant part of their overall business and welding is a key factor in a roll cage so that's a plus.  The fact that they have their own DIY kit is also a plus as it's an indicator of their familiarity of the install that I'm looking for.

Thanks Mudmaster for this recommendation.

(2) Those Guys Rod and Customs in Bremerton, WA

A custom cage will be about the same cost as having them install the 4x Innovations kit.  The quote for a custom DOM cage that used 1.75"x0.120 for the main structure and 1.5" for the spreaders, dash bar, spreaders, lateral support, etc., is $1,500 and for installing the 4x Innovations kit would be $750 plus the cost of the kits that is about $750 for equal parts.

Thanks joeyf for this recommendation.  It was also recommended today by one of my welding engineering friends at work.

(3) Bayview 4x4 Truck in Bremerton, WA

Eliminated from the list.  They are under new ownership and Rich, the mechanic that had worked on my truck over the years, is no longer working there.  It sounds like he's now working at Rears and Gears doing R&P setups (http://websitesbycook.com/rearsandgears/).  If you need some of that work done I'd highly recommend him.

I don't think either shop so far would be a bad option.  I stopped by the Those Guys shop briefly when it was located below Max RPM and wasn't overly impressed with the response that I got though if I thought they were the best value I wouldn't avoid them.  The combination of having either own DIY kit and specific welding services makes XO look to be a great option.

[joeyf]

You had mentioned that you are really only doing this for the kids. What if you skip the cab and just have the back made, it should save on over all cost. That's what I did on my runner, it saved me around 200 on my tube cost.

[blackdiamond]

You had mentioned that you are really only doing this for the kids. What if you skip the cab and just have the back made, it should save on over all cost. That's what I did on my runner, it saved me around 200 on my tube cost.

I won't nickel and dime a cage. Once the decision is made to move forward the goal will be a quality cage for everyone.

[H8PVMNT]

I don't know you could buy a bender, tube and a welder in that price range.  I assume you all ready have a welder anyway.  As long as you get some good DOM  and you can weld you can't really screw it up.

[blackdiamond]

I don't know you could buy a bender, tube and a welder in that price range.  I assume you all ready have a welder anyway.  As long as you get some good DOM  and you can weld you can't really screw it up.

You overestimate me by great margins. I have slightly more skill in the garage than I have interest in wrenching. I am a shop reliant type of guy that should probably drive a catalog Jeep.  As a general rule, if it could impact my safety I don't mess with it. My understanding of things far exceeds my hands on skills.

[blackdiamond]

(2) Those Guys Rod and Customs in Bremerton, WA

A custom cage will be about the same cost as having them install the 4x Innovations kit.  The quote for a custom DOM cage that used 1.75"x0.120 for the main structure and 1.5" for the spreaders, dash bar, spreaders, lateral support, etc., is $1,500 and for installing the 4x Innovations kit would be $750 plus the cost of the kits that is about $750 for equal parts.

Thanks joeyf for this recommendation.  It was also recommended today by one of my welding engineering friends at work.

I'm starting to lean towards Those Guys Rod and Customs as my target shop.  Their latest rough quote would put me in the $1,500 range excluding the dash bar and harness bar (previously included in their quote) and including a painted final product.  They also would prefer for me to leave the seats in so that they know what their space limitation are.  I'm confident based on the vehicles I've seen at their shop and the multiple recommendations (I also have a friend that had some hot rod frame work done) that I will get a quality cage and their prices is competitive and location convenient.  The next step will be to swing by in the 4Runner and have a face to face conversation about the project.

Next month is a three paycheck month so the cash flow would be about as healthy as it ever is and I'd prefer to not pull any funds from other things in the budget.  At a minimum I'll try to set the majority of the money aside for the project if I don't just put it in the shop and get it done.

I like the idea of having a cage that uses multiple sizes of tubing to maximize strength where it's necessary and space otherwise.

I know that a harness bar is not necessary or practical for my "family" 4Runner, but I'm on the fence when it comes to a dash bar.  I know that having a dash bar would add strength to the cage in the event of a rollover, but I think in the scenario of a front end collision on the street it cold be a very dangerous addition.  I'm not convinced that one is necessary to have a solid cage.  Thoughts?