Topic: Not Starting...Relay?

[toynorcal]

I jumped in my truck ('85) to go to work today and heard that pain in my    click click. The truck was running fine 12 hours before hand.

The strangest thing about it is the 'click' was comming from my COMPUTER BOX? WTF? The starter did not even try to enguage and the cylonoid wasn't talking either. But for Some reason every time I tried to turn it over I got the sound that should have been comming form the Cylonoid, but I came from the computer.   

Me and my buddy talked about it and we are pretty certain it should be just the starter relay. Anyone else have some thoughts on this? Or better yet, an explaination to why my computer is whats making the noise? Thanks

[Makman]

Not sure why the computer would be making any noise since everything inside it should be solid-state.  Are you sure it isn't another relay under your dash...maybe the fuel pump relay if you have EFI?  I'm just guessing, so I could be way off.

I fought a starter/computer problem not too long ago and it turned out to be a funky fusible link which may not be applicable to your year rig but I'd check the wiring to and from the starter and in the ignition circuit looking for any loose connections or bad grounds.  I'd also check any and all fuses in the system.

[Plowking]

I had an old truck that I used to have to (click the starter ) to get it to start. It eventually got so bad that I had to replace it.

You can always pull the starter and bench test it, hook it up and see if the bendix will burn some wood

If all the wiring is ok, it just might be time for a starter

[toynorcal [OP]]

Ok guys a little more info on this.

Not sure why the computer would be making any noise since everything inside it should be solid-state. Are you sure it isn't another relay under your dash...maybe the fuel pump relay if you have EFI? I'm just guessing, so I could be way off.

It is an EFI plowking, but I am certain the click is comming from the computer. I pulled it out of the housing (helps when the pannel isn't screwed down ) and turned the key over with it sitting on the floor board next to me. So I am certain that this is where the sound comes from.

If all the wiring is ok, it just might be time for a starter

I still haven't looked at it yet, but I am pretty certain that I will find the wiring sound and the starter working.

Can anyone help explain why that sound would be comming from my Computer?

[Shamb]

check your ECU for broken pins, if any sound would be coming from the ECU it would possible be an electrical arc from something broken or not completely connected.


Did you check all your fuses to make sure you dont have a blown fuse? or a bad starter relay?

[justachillin2]

Ok guys a little more info on this.

It is an EFI plowking, but I am certain the click is comming from the computer. I pulled it out of the housing (helps when the pannel isn't screwed down ) and turned the key over with it sitting on the floor board next to me. So I am certain that this is where the sound comes from.

I still haven't looked at it yet, but I am pretty certain that I will find the wiring sound and the starter working.

Can anyone help explain why that sound would be comming from my Computer?

Should have bought yourself a JEEP and you wouldn't have this problem.

[wa4x4]

Wouldnt have had that problem, only 1,000 other problems. And an ego that will take a hit later on when you realize that your jeep isnt the greatest ting ever...

[toynorcal [OP]]

Leave it to a Jeep guy to hijack a thread...

Should have bought yourself a JEEP and you wouldn't have this problem.

When I see you at work your getting    So, back to the job at hand...

I haven't had time to start working on this yet, but yeah sounds like an arc don't it. I just didn't know if there is a relay in there or not. I will start in on it tomorrow and post up what I find or a fix 

[Shamb]

John come over to Rudy's tomorrow before work and we'll take a look at it.. from talking to Rudy it sounds like it might just be a starter problem.

[toynorcal [OP]]

That was the plan man... and I don't work tomorrow.

[BigMike]

Is that a Toyota factory ECU? There is nothing in there that clicks..

Clicking when the key goes from both ACC to ON, and from ON to START positions are perfectly normal since relays are used to handle and split larger amperage loads to the various circuits on your truck.

That clicking noise has been there the whole time, but because the buzzer is on (when going from ACC to ON) or the starter is engaging (when going from ON to START), you just never heard them.

If it's a loud and obvious click that can be heard within 50 feet from your truck, then it's the starter solenoid not engaging the starter drive gear. This could be due to debris and/or rust forming in your starter, or worn out contacts. Usually banging the starter with a decently sized rod or a rock will loosen it up so that it will work again, but it should be repaired or replaced soon to prevent this from happening again.

If it's a quiet click that can only be heard within about 5 feet from the truck, then that clicking is normal, it is just the relays working, and the starter is not getting any voltage at all, or it is completely junk. In this case, I would just start backwards and troubleshoot from the starter itself.
--Have someone hold the key in the START position and check for voltage at the Black-White "Starter Signal" wire that runs to the back of the starter (not the side terminal post BLACK 8 gauge? wire, but rather the smaller 12 gauge? wire).
--If that does not have +12, then check the ground for the Starter Relay located in the fuse box in your engine bay.
--If the ground is good, then check the lead +12 volts be unplugging your key cylinder from the interior crowl harness, and check either the BLACK (earlier EFI models) wire or the BLACK-WHITE (later EFI models including all T100s, 4Runners, Tacomas, and Tundras) for +12 volts. Be sure to check the male side and not the female side once unplugged or else you will never see any volts regardless..
--If there is no power there, then you've got some serious power problems and you would have started this thread out by saying "Help, my truck is 100% dead and my clock doesn't even work" So I'm sure you've got power there...

I might not be able to respond because I am super busy lately, so send me a PM before you

BigMike

[hornett22]

sounds like starter contacts to me

[toynorcal [OP]]

Is that a Toyota factory ECU? There is nothing in there that clicks..

Clicking when the key goes from both ACC to ON, and from ON to START positions are perfectly normal since relays are used to handle and split larger amperage loads to the various circuits on your truck.

That clicking noise has been there the whole time, but because the buzzer is on (when going from ACC to ON) or the starter is engaging (when going from ON to START), you just never heard them.

If it's a quiet click that can only be heard within about 5 feet from the truck, then that clicking is normal, it is just the relays working, and the starter is not getting any voltage at all, or it is completely junk.

BigMike

With my buddy turning the ignition it took about half a second to figure out it wasn't my ECU clicking. Instead it was a big Circuit breaker mounted above the ECU     I never knew it was there, but we also found the same Circuit Breaker in a 3rd gen as-well for anyone else that doesn't know it's there.

We found bad fuses and a blown relay (not the starter relay) and went to Kragen to get new stuff and brought the starter for testing. Every stater I have had made some complaints before it bit the dust. Not this one, but it was cooked none the less.

Warrantied the starter, replaced the fuses and relay, replaced all the corroded and frayed wiring we could find and ripped out about 10 lbs. of rat-nest wiring the previous owner put in.

Theres your fix guys. Thanks for everyone's posts except Justachillin2's...buy a jeep?

-John

[BigMike]

You are talking about a Relay, not a Circuit breaker, right? Talking about the OCR, or Opening Circuit Relay?

I've never ever seen a circuit breaker in any Toyota truck, other than fuses, and I've never seen a circuit breaker in any of the wiring diagrams I've read.

You've got me courious now, could you take a picture of it? 

Glad to hear you are getting it fixed and back on the road!

[brainlessfool]

Should have bought yourself a JEEP and you wouldn't have this problem.

[BigMike]

Man, what's with all the Jeep hating? It's really getting old

[toynorcal [OP]]

I'm not hating on Jeeps. I've thought about buying one. But that Justachillin2 guy works with me and he thinks Jeeps are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just trying to bring him back to earth.

[Shamb]

me ---->   <------ Toynorcal

[toynorcal [OP]]

Hey good call with the wiring Shane...just tear it all out and re-run it eh? Shamb---> <---- me

[hornett22]

jeeps are quite gay

[BigMike]

          

[toynorcal [OP]]

You are talking about a Relay, not a Circuit breaker, right? Talking about the OCR, or Opening Circuit Relay?

I've never ever seen a circuit breaker in any Toyota truck, other than fuses, and I've never seen a circuit breaker in any of the wiring diagrams I've read.

You've got me courious now, could you take a picture of it?

Glad to hear you are getting it fixed and back on the road!

  Ok man, you got it right "Circuit Open" relay P/N 85910-14020 (ND 056700-5770). I didn't get a pic, but it's mounted directly behind the passenger side speaker above the ECU (85 p/u). From what I read into on this thing, it is supposed to put an open in the fuel pump circuit when the ignition system is on but the motor is not turning. Seems they are mounted in close proximity to the ECU in most models including MR2's. Does that sound about right? Didn't mean to confuse anyone there.

Thanks for all the info guys (update: she's running like a champ and going with me hunting this weekend, bet I can find some rocks to play on ).

[BigMike]

Ok man, you got it right "Circuit Open" relay

Sa-weet! And a point for you! There ya go-

Yes, on the 1st gen MR2s, the OCR is actually mounted to the lower left-hand bracket that mounts the ECU to the rear firewall inside the middle of the back trunk.

As for the operation of the OCR, Power is delivered via the EFI Relay when the key is turned to the ON position and the AM2 Circuit is hot. It will be a Black-Red wire that carries the signal (trigger) power to the relay, a White-Red wire that carryes the main (loading) power to the relay, a Blue wire that directly powers the fuel pump, and a White-Black wire that grounds the signal (trigger) power to Close the gate inside of the relay.

I have never looked into the wiring of what's related to the AFM box, but I would assume that the Air Flow Meter controls the White-Black grounding signal wire, and if the key is ON, then the signal has power, and therefore you've got power headed to the fuel pump as the relay closes (by airflow through the AFM during cranking which grounds the OCR's signal circuit).

As for the clutch start cancel, some people associate that with the OCR, but there is actually a separate relay, the Starter Relay, and the clutch switch at the pedal controls that relay's grounding signal wire before the starter will see any power from the relay.

Regards,
BigMike

[hudlenutz]

I had the same deal happen to my truck 91 22re.  I thought it was the starter contacts, and rebuilt it.  It worked for about a month, then started to crap out a bit on me.  I did some searching around and found some info on pirate and 4crawler's website that fixed my problem. 

The source of my starter click was really that fact that my ignition switch was getting weak.  The starter relay uses the ign switch for the signal, but it also uses it as the power source for the relay.  I don't know why Toyota wired it like that.  It kind of defeats the purpose of using a relay.

I cut the source to the ignition, and ran it straight to the battery like this:  (batt----inline fuse-----manual switch (in the cab)----starter realy).  The switch is there so I can cut power to the relay if it ever sticks open.

So... if your truck starts to act up after a while, you might check out the starter relay, not the O.C. to see how it's wired.   

[hudlenutz]

Forgot to mention, if it does break again, you're never stranded.  A 6" wire jumped from the main starter wire (the thick one) to the solenoid wire contact (the small one) will crank it right over.

[joestoys05]

ok  well i have a 86 x-cab yota with a 89 motor it ran great till i let it sit for a couple weeks now it won't start ....... at first it was the oringal starter and it wouldn't turn fast enough , sounded like it was dieing
i replaced the starter and then the new starter wouldn't turn , then i thought the new starter was defective and returned it for a better one and when i then when to start it it makes the single loud click , i checked for voltage at starter and its there than checked everything u guys mentioned on the page ,
not the computer , brand new ingition , not the open circuit relay or the efi relay , i checked and replaced every fuse that even looked old..
i think im goin to tear apart the new starter and inspect the contacts
im on the verge of scrapping my project truck!!!1