Topic: Starting/staying running problems

[SO Teen]

So this afternoon I went and picked up my 89 Toyota pickup from my local stereo shop and went to start it in the lot and had to jump it to start. It ran just fine on the way to my friends house. Turned the truck off hung out for a bit then went to start it and it started just fine no problems. Then I drove to the YMCA about 10 miles from my friends house and within the last mile or so til i got there my truck started running weird. My stereo power kept flashing in and out. I didn't have total power like I should. If I pressed on the gas in second gear the truck sputtered but still drove a little. I didn't think to much of it so I parked and went inside to get my brother. When I came back out I tried starting it and got no response. Just a click from when I turned the key to turn it over. At first I thought it was my starter because I recently bought a remanufactured one from autozone and had already replaced it once from them. A random guy pulled up and helped me jump it and it started just fine. My parents showed up because they were on their way to help me before that guy stopped. I hopped in my truck and tapped the brake and the truck sputtered and died. We then jumped it again and it started. I kept my foot on the gas just a little to keep it running and I drove about 100 feet before it died again. I pulled over and we went home to grab gas in case that was it and a chain inn case we had to tow it home. We came back and poured the gas in and had to jump it again. It ran fine for about half a mile until I had to stop at a stop light. It idled pretty good for a second then when I started to go it sputtered and died.

What could this possibly be? My ideas are the alternator or battery are bad? Is my battery not holding a charge? Or is the alternator not charging it?
 Or both? I had my battery tested about a month or so ago and the machine said it worked just fine. Those are the only things that I could think of that would cause this problem.

Also could the stereo shop possibly have done something on accident? I haven't had a starting issue in weeks sense I replaced my starter.

Sorry about the long post I'm just really stressed out about it. I hate when my stuff doesn't work right.

Thank you, any help is very much appreciated,

SO TEEN

[emsvitil]

Sounds like it's not charging.

Alternator disconnected or fuse......

[Snowtoy]

Sounds like it's not charging.

Alternator disconnected or fuse......

Get out your volt meter, get the truck started, and check the voltage at the battery, it should be 14-15volts.

[SO Teen [OP]]

Get out your volt meter, get the truck started, and check the voltage at the battery, it should be 14-15volts.

And if it's not? What does that mean? I work all day tomorrow but I will try and find a time to get to it.

[SO Teen [OP]]

Sounds like it's not charging.

Alternator disconnected or fuse......

What fuse runs the alternator???

[Snowtoy]

And if it's not? What does that mean? I work all day tomorrow but I will try and find a time to get to it.

It means your alternator isn't putting out enough voltage to charge the to run the ecu, injectors, lights, stereo, etc., and charge the battery. 

[SO Teen [OP]]

It means your alternator isn't putting out enough voltage to charge the to run the ecu, injectors, lights, stereo, etc., and charge the battery.

Should I throw the battery on a charger tonight or no? and does that mean it needs to be replaced?


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[emsvitil]

Yes, charge the battery.

[Snowtoy]

Should I throw the battery on a charger tonight or no? and does that mean it needs to be replaced?

If the voltage output isn't within specs, you need to replace it or have it rebuilt(about $65 if you have a local shop that still rebuilds them), if there isn't an issue with the wiring.  If you buy a new one, make sure to have parts store check it out before you leave, and don't buy one w/o a good warranty, most of the parts store "rebuilt" ones have only had the failed components replaced, have had some not work right off the shelf and others fail within 6 months.

What kind of stereo and amp was installed? If you went with a large amp, a failing/aged alternator could be your problem.  The stock alternator was only designed to power stock equipment, i.e., injectors, fuel pump, head/tail lights, HVAC, radio, etc., and large amps or extr, Toyota used a 60amp and a 70amp alternator, those with air conditioning got the 70amp one.

If you recently degreased the engine, that usually kills the alternator shortly after also.

[SO Teen [OP]]

If the voltage output isn't within specs, you need to replace it or have it rebuilt(about $65 if you have a local shop that still rebuilds them), if there isn't an issue with the wiring.  If you buy a new one, make sure to have parts store check it out before you leave, and don't buy one w/o a good warranty, most of the parts store "rebuilt" ones have only had the failed components replaced, have had some not work right off the shelf and others fail within 6 months.

What kind of stereo and amp was installed? If you went with a large amp, a failing/aged alternator could be your problem.  The stock alternator was only designed to power stock equipment, i.e., injectors, fuel pump, head/tail lights, HVAC, radio, etc., and large amps or extr, Toyota used a 60amp and a 70amp alternator, those with air conditioning got the 70amp one.

If you recently degreased the engine, that usually kills the alternator shortly after also.

Are you recommending that I do not buy a rebuilt alternator? I did not get an amp with my stereo because I don't have subwoofers yet. If I plan on putting in an amp should I get a high output alternator? And what do you mean by degreased? The motor is a rebuilt engine with only 1000 miles on the entire thing.


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[Mudder]

On older motors some people like to pressure washer them down to clean them, also know as degreasing. I would have your current alternator rebuild. I'm on my 4th or 5th one from O Reillys to the point I don't even remember how many times I've changed it!

[SO Teen [OP]]

On older motors some people like to pressure washer them down to clean them, also know as degreasing. I would have your current alternator rebuild. I'm on my 4th or 5th one from O Reillys to the point I don't even remember how many times I've changed it!

I did not pressure wash my engine haha. Would my current alternator have enough power to run an amp and everything? If it won't then I will buy a brand new high output alternator. If it will run it then I will have a local shop rebuild it.


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[SO Teen [OP]]

Okay so I went out there this morning and took it off the battery charger. When I went to start it after it not running for a couple days it runs for a second then shuts down. It does this multiple times until it starts to idle correctly. Is this a problem with my cold start?
Sorry for all the questions I am just trying to solve all the issues I am having so I get a strong running truck instead of it breaking down with a different problem each week.


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[Snowtoy]

Are you recommending that I do not buy a rebuilt alternator?

If you have a local shop that rebuilds electrical components, they would be your better deal, the shop I use rebuilds the entire alternator for $65, not just replace the worn parts like most "auto parts store" rebuilds are, and if you do buy a rebuild just have it tested before going home.

I did not get an amp with my stereo because I don't have subwoofers yet. If I plan on putting in an amp should I get a high output alternator?

Since it started with the stereo install, asking about the system was to remove something like a high power amp from the cause.

Depending on t he amp draw you may need to go with a bigger alternator, the stock 70amp one should be fine with a single amp up to 400 watts.

And what do you mean by degreased?

As Mudder mentioned steam cleaning it or using the cans of engine cleaner/degreaser that you hose off with water, if you don't cover/remove the alternator, the grease and water will kill it, same with a leaking power steering pump.

The motor is a rebuilt engine with only 1000 miles on the entire thing.

When you put the engine back together, did you put a new fuel filter on, did you have the injectors cleaned?

Okay so I went out there this morning and took it off the battery charger. When I went to start it after it not running for a couple days it runs for a second then shuts down.

What was the result from testing the alternator voltage?

If you don't have a voltage issue, it may be a fuel issue, pump, filter, injectors.

It does this multiple times until it starts to idle correctly. Is this a problem with my cold start?

Cold start issues could be the injector itself, or the cold start timer switch.  You can pull the cold start injector and test it on vehicle, remove injector then hook it back up, unplug the coil(so the engine can't fire up), have someone turn the engine over and see what the spray pattern is like from the injector, should have the injector spray into a clear plastic jar or bag.  If it fires fine, it is likely the timer, that can be tested with an ohm meter, or firing the injector manually before turning over the(will need to attach positive and negative wires to the injector terminal, and tap the positive lead one the battery to fire the injector.

Other things to look for would be a cracks in the intake hose, loose/cracked vacuum lines, too much unmetered air will make the engine stall out, should also check the distributor, if the set-bolt loosened, the distributor could have moved and the timing is off.  The air flow meter or throttle position sensor could also be causing the problem.

Checking for engine codes will help to determine if the problem is mechanical or sensor(not always) related.

Sorry for all the questions I am just trying to solve all the issues I am having so I get a strong running truck instead of it breaking down with a different problem each week.

If I remember correctly it sat for years after you grandfather started to repair it, so having new issues pop up with it back on the road is understandable, especially if you don't know what it was running like before your grandfather started the engine repair.  Diagnosing automotive problems is a skill that takes time and patience to learn, the frustration you are dealing with now is the cost of acquiring a skill that most men, including a lot of auto techs no longer have.

[SO Teen [OP]]

I called my grandpa this afternoon and talked to him about the engine. He said he had a shop do the engine work. The injectors came off a local running engine. He also had me start the truck and disconnect the battery to see if it died. It did not so he said that the alternator is working and supplying power to the truck. He told me that I should have a diagnostic test ran to see if it's the brain, sensors, or any underlying electronics. What are your guy's thoughts?


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[Snowtoy]

He told me that I should have a diagnostic test ran to see if it's the brain, sensors, or any underlying electronics. What are your guy's thoughts?

If it is a sensor, and the sensor has registered a code with the ecu, you can scan the ecu yourself, and count the # of times the check engine light flashes, the first number will flash quickly, short pause, then flash the second number, long pause then either new number or the first number again if onlyy one code has been registered.

Found this video on you tube that shows what ports to connect, and shows the how to read the check engine light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxL6WGJGtMg

If you don't get a code, it doesn't necessarily mean the sensors are working correctly, just means that they have failed enough to register a code.  I had a speed sensor in the speedometer fail, truck would just shut down to idle when cruising down the freeway, took 6 months and 3 trips to the dealer before a code registered.

I would inspect all the intake tubing, harness connections, test the coil, igniter, air flow meter, fuel pump and pressure(could be clogged fuel filter failing pump).

[T-Revv]

He also had me start the truck and disconnect the battery to see if it died. It did not so he said that the alternator is working and supplying power to the truck.

Common misconception.  That test is only half right to what most people think.  If you pull the battery and it dies, for sure your alternator is shot.  (that is where that test is correct to what people think).  If you pull the battery and it keeps running, it does not mean your alternator is good, or bad. It means you have to actually put a voltage meter on it and get a reading.  Your alternator may be putting out enough voltage to run the engine, but not enough to run the engine and charge the battery and run lights and stereo and ect.  So you need to put a full charge on the battery, start the car, and put a volt meter on the battery.  You have to look up your factory specs for voltage, but typically it is between 13.4-14.2V. 

Also check your ground wires.  If your truck has loose ground somewhere, it will get connection one second and then slight shift and it wont, and then it will, and then it wont.  So make sure all of your grounds are tight and getting a good connection.

[SO Teen [OP]]

I got my truck back from the mechanic this afternoon. He said my problem was most likely the alternator. At the time he checked it it was working. But when he checked it again the next morning it wasn't working so he recommended that I replace it. He also said my cold start injector isn't working hense the reason why it takes so many times to finally turn the truck over when it's cold. He said that it is most likely a computer/electrical problem because that is where the signal is coming from. How would I check for sure what is causing it without taking it back to him and spending an arm and a leg for him to tear it apart and put it back together?


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[emsvitil]

Does an 89 have the cold start timer?

If so, that's the more likely culprit.........   (It's possible to take apart and fix)

http://s957.photobucket.com/user/emsvitil/library/M20%20Toyota%20Cold%20Start%20Timer%20Fix?sort=2&page=1

[SO Teen [OP]]

Does an 89 have the cold start timer?

If so, that's the more likely culprit.........   (It's possible to take apart and fix)

http://s957.photobucket.com/user/emsvitil/library/M20%20Toyota%20Cold%20Start%20Timer%20Fix?sort=2&page=1

I do not know if I have a cold start timer on it. Would you happen to have a picture of it on the engine? Or the general area? Then I will look tomorrow morning before I go to school. It's just a rebuilt 22RE.


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[Snowtoy]

I do not know if I have a cold start timer on it. Would you happen to have a picture of it on the engine? Or the general area? Then I will look tomorrow morning before I go to school. It's just a rebuilt 22RE.

You will need to test the cold start injector, as well as the timer, to make sure you don't have a wiring issue.

Cold start timer switch(black connector) is located at the front of the engine, below the intake, next to the water temp sensor(green connector).
Pic is from an '86, but should be in the same place.


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