Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[OTO Phil]

With silver solder, you need to apply the flux inside the connection, and it will pull the solder inside the hoping, sealing it. Don't try to apply it to the exterior of the joint the way you might weld it, that will just end up leaking.

Looks like a factory fit though

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[Gnarly4X [OP]]

With silver solder, you need to apply the flux inside the connection, and it will pull the solder inside the hoping, sealing it. Don't try to apply it to the exterior of the joint the way you might weld it, that will just end up leaking.

Looks like a factory fit though

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Hi e,

Thanks. I've only used my propane torch on copper fitting for plumbing fixes.  Never tried silver soldering anything.  I have a mig welder, and learned how to weld with a home made buzz box and rods when I was about 12 years old.   I am taking my time with this rebuild.  I'm very glad I decided to do it myself.  I know without a doubt that anyone of a couple "auto mechanic repair shops" I talked to would NOT have fixed, replaced questionable parts, fabricated parts that are now unavailable, or taken the time to properly clean gasket surfaces and remove old RTV from bolts, clean the grease and paint parts, etc.

OK, I don't think there is much pressure in that brass pressed in tube, maybe same as the radiator - around 13 lbs? 

I will dab the joint with some nitrocellulose dissolved in some butyl acetate.  That's should seal up good. 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Subject:  Oil Pan sealant

I squirted a bead of Permatex "the Right Stuff" on my very clean oil pan yesterday.  I let it dry overnight. This morning I don't like the feel. It is very rubbery and if I mount it, it will have only slight adhesion to the block since it's dried up some.. not tacky to the touch.

So, I scraped it all off.  That "stuff" is expensive compared to a tube of Ultra Black or other RTV.

Leaving it to dry too long seems to reduce the tackiness and adhesion to the block.  Although I may have a lack of experience, my gut says that the seal would be better if the sealant was tacky on both surfaces - the block and the pan.  Of course if I bolt the pan on and the RTV is too squishy, I don't want any RTV floating around in my crankcase.

I have "HAS" (hyper analytical syndrome) and I'm probably being too overly analytical.

Gnarls 

[:)bestgen4runner]

The best sealer is Toyota FIPG. Every Toyota dealer has it in stock. It is different than the " wrong stuff" or any silicone you buy from auto part store.
Save your self the pain of doing things twice.
There is no better than what Toyota offers. You will find that to be true in most cases. 

[OTO Phil]

I agree about fipg. However if you can't get to the dealer and you're near an O'Reilly auto parts place, get this gasket sealant. It stays tacky but still.. fipg is best with no cork/rubber gasket..



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[emsvitil]

I glue an oil pan gasket to the pan with ultra black.

Put some plastic wrap on floor.

Set oil pan (with gasket) on plastic wrap

Add some weight to oil pan

Let sit overnight.

Then more ultra black on gasket when installing pan/gasket to engine.


Since you've glued the gasket to the pan,  it doesn't squirm around and try to escape when installing on engine.

Never had a leak doing this.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I appreciate the input guys   

Geez... and not surprising, there are about as many recipes for sealing the oil pan as there are for home made pork ribs!!

A couple weeks ago, I checked with an expert Toyota 22RE person and they recommended no gasket, just RTV and let it sit 8 hrs or overnight.   The engines apparently came from the factory with no gasket, just sealant FIPG 

As I mentioned, leaving it dry up will not adhere well to the block - no tacky, less sticky.

The trick to letting the gasket set up on the pan, then adding some RTV, or whatever is your favorite flavor, when installing it seems good.  It seems with the "no gasket" deal, I will have to make sure the bead of sealant is fairly level and uniform, no gaps.  With the gasket, I can spread a fairly even layer on its flat surface.

The cork gaskets are known to squish out when tightening the bolts.

OK, it seems to me that if the pan is going leak crankcase oil, it will want to do that on the pan surface and around the path of least resistance - the bolt holes.   If the block surface is sealed well, the oil would have more difficultly seeping through that sealant barrier.

Candidly, I think that just about any of the popular oil resistant sealants will work fine if properly applied to the pan and block. 

Permatex says that Ultra Black is their "maximum oil sealant RTV".  the Right Stuff is a gasket maker and "formed in place" rubber material.  I have The Right Stuff in an aerosol can and it squirts out of little nozzle.

I'm going by my gut and use my own recipe, and a combination of some other hot tips.



Gnarls 

[:)bestgen4runner]

 
I checked with an expert Toyota 22RE person and they recommended no gasket, just RTV and let it sit 8 hrs or overnight.   The engines apparently came from the factory with no gasket, just sealant FIPG.

I have never met a Toyota 22re expert person but He or She sounds very knowledgeable. I would Just do Whatever the Toyota expert say. 

[Mudder]

Correction, 85 and later 22re oil pans you don't use a gasket, that's why there's a dimple going in. On 84 and earlier oil pans you do use a gasket as that bump is pointed out to help seal the oil pan to the block.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Correction, 85 and later 22re oil pans you don't use a gasket, that's why there's a dimple going in. On 84 and earlier oil pans you do use a gasket as that bump is pointed out to help seal the oil pan to the block.

 
Solid accurate Knowledge.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Does this flange require a gasket?  No gasket that fits that came in the "Master Kit"?

It's the Heater Water Outlet Pipe.  The photo is looking at the bottom of the intake manifold.

Thanks,

Gnarls.

[OTO Phil]

Yeah, this should definitely have a gasket.. I'd double check that master kit, then email Tod of you can't find it.. this is the pipe that bolts to the backside of the water pump right? Be sure to use permatex blue, be for water pumps and thermostat housings

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[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Yeah, this should definitely have a gasket.. I'd double check that master kit, then email Tod of you can't find it.. this is the pipe that bolts to the backside of the water pump right? Be sure to use permatex blue, be for water pumps and thermostat housings

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I triple checked all remaining gaskets in the kit.  Tried each one several times.  No bueno!!

I see by the diagram it show a small ring washer. But my gut says it should have a gasket on the flange as well??

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

My gut says there is a phenolic ... or rubber... ring that sits in the port.   

No ring or anything close came in the kit. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Well, this looks like it.  It's an O'ring... looks like rubber??

http://www.lceperformance.com/Heater-Tube-O-Ring-Under-EFI-Manifold-22RE-OEM-Toy-p/1060012.htm

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Again *whiny mode on*....

If these sources are selling 100's of these "Master Rebuild Kits", WHY don't they include ALL the pieces you will need?  And.... if the don't or can't, OK, but can someone say "YOU will also need this, and that, and the other thing, that does NO T come in our Master-Flipp'n-Rebuild Kit"~~~~!! 

*Whiny mode off*

Gnarls.

[OTO Phil]

I remember that my master rebuild kit came with it.. i can go grab one from Tod tomorrow and send it

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[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I remember that my master rebuild kit came with it.. i can go grab one from Tod tomorrow and send it

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OK well, my kit is defective.  e, that's mighty nice of you, ONLY if that's not too much inconvenience for you - seriously. I looked for one on Marlincrawler.com, but I could not find one.

LCE's site popped right up when I google'd it.

Thanks,

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

So once I get the little O'ring, I still would like to seal the flange at the port with some RTV??

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Just so you guys know I'm not whacko.... I've attached a photo of 2 rings that came in the little plastic bag with the seals for the rocker arm cover.  I checked very carefully to see if either one would fit inside the port... NO BUENO.

And... I'm not yet sure what those two rings will go to by the time I get to find out.

Gnarls.

[Mudder]

Yes it uses an o ring with no sealant. You can get one at your local parts store, it's what I always do.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Yes it uses an o ring with no sealant. You can get one at your local parts store, it's what I always do.

Hey M,

No sealant... hmmmm... its a water pipe connection.

I'll mic the little shelf that it sits on and then I'll go to Ace-is-the-place and see what I can find.

Thanks.

Gnarls.

[OVRAROK]

Just so you guys know I'm not whacko.... I've attached a photo of 2 rings that came in the little plastic bag with the seals for the rocker arm cover.  I checked very carefully to see if either one would fit inside the port... NO BUENO.

And... I'm not yet sure what those two rings will go to by the time I get to find out.

Gnarls.

Does the rubber o ring fit the bottom of the 710 cap..... Wait,oil cap

[Mudder]

Gnarly, I fought a leak from there until I put the O-ring in. After that it never leaked and I didn't use any sealant. I had used sealant before but it didn't hold. There's no pressure in that hose as well, all that area does it give you your coolant temp.

[OVRAROK]

there is a o ring on that water pipe, that may be it. I bet copper washer is for some sensor

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Does the rubber o ring fit the bottom of the 710 cap..... Wait,oil cap

Oil cap???.... the oil pan drain plug??.... no it does not.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Gnarly, I fought a leak from there until I put the O-ring in. After that it never leaked and I didn't use any sealant. I had used sealant before but it didn't hold. There's no pressure in that hose as well, all that area does it give you your coolant temp.

OK.... got it.  I'm going to Ace to see what they have.

Thanks again for all the input!

Gnarls.

[OVRAROK]

Oil cap???.... the oil pan drain plug??.... no it does not.

Gnarls.

sorry nothing to reference size with, stick a dollar bill next to it

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

sorry nothing to reference size with, stick a dollar bill next to it

Yeah, I after posted those I realized there's no frame of reference.     Good idea!   

 I'll put an object next to the object I'm photographing next time I do that.

Because I'm so short on dollar bills, can I use a copper penny? 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Object reference for size...