Topic: Common approach to lengthening front driveshaft

[OVRAROK]

Man Ovrarok I just read that.  That would work for me....just mod the one I've got.  I'm a little skeptical in my ability to get the joints out without loosing all the roller bearings.  Were you successful in reusing the old joints or did you put in new?  I've done several ujoints but never tried to salvage an old one, seems tough.

I don't have a vise either....working in the basement parking garage of an apartment building is always fun.  I've done rear shafts without a vise, but this front short guy will definitely be flopping around being shorter and lighter than the long rear shaft.   ......I need to find a buddy with a shop that I can invade from time to time around here.

I was able to use existing u joints. maybe you need to hit up that big flea market next to the coliseum in Oakland, find a nice used vice

[jmac80 [OP]]

I was able to use existing u joints. maybe you need to hit up that big flea market next to the coliseum in Oakland, find a nice used vice

I work by the airport so that's right across the street......problem is I got nowhere to mount it.  No bench to work on.  I just ordered an electric die grinder to do this.  Worst comes to worst, I f-up the u-joints, add the clearance, and then have to go by new u-joints.  Getting new ones in with only c-clamps and sockets is OK.....as for getting them out in decent shape....I'm not so sure of.

OK here's a question as opposed to my jibber-jabber.....So you get the clips out and move the cap out as far as you can....dude in the link put washers on cap circumference (inside the yoke hole) and knocked it the rest of the way out.  Doesn't this ruin the grease seal on the u-joint cap?  Shouldn't you try and use pliers, vise grips to twist and pull it out the rest of the way?  Maybe I need one in front of me to see.

[OVRAROK]

I work by the airport so that's right across the street......problem is I got nowhere to mount it.  No bench to work on.  I just ordered an electric die grinder to do this.  Worst comes to worst, I f-up the u-joints, add the clearance, and then have to go by new u-joints.  Getting new ones in with only c-clamps and sockets is OK.....as for getting them out in decent shape....I'm not so sure of.

OK here's a question as opposed to my jibber-jabber.....So you get the clips out and move the cap out as far as you can....dude in the link put washers on cap circumference (inside the yoke hole) and knocked it the rest of the way out.  Doesn't this ruin the grease seal on the u-joint cap?  Shouldn't you try and use pliers, vise grips to twist and pull it out the rest of the way?  Maybe I need one in front of me to see.

when I did this mod, my vice was on the garage floor, it was a few years ago, I just followed the direction in that link, just remember to get all needle bearing out of cap before installing washers, I didn't hurt the rubber seal at all.

[OVRAROK]

I used to work at that big brick building at the corner of 23rd and e 7th, it used to be the sf chronicle, Oakland hub. pretty close to the park street bridge going into alameda

[megaphoneman]

I used to work at that big brick building at the corner of 23rd and e 7th, it used to be the sf chronicle, Oakland hub. pretty close to the park street bridge going into alameda

i may have a square front d shaft if you really want one...i think after i link i can run a stock one..

[jmac80 [OP]]

when I did this mod, my vice was on the garage floor, it was a few years ago, I just followed the direction in that link, just remember to get all needle bearing out of cap before installing washers, I didn't hurt the rubber seal at all.

I think you've now convinced me to go buy a vise.  I'm out of town this weekend but will run over there during lunch one day next week.  Probably buy one from the guy in far back corner so that I can carry it all the way out....what's a vise weigh, like 5lbs?

Let my die grinder come in and give me a chance to get a vise and I'll post up how everything went.  In the mean time I'll get the crud out of the yolk holes/cap interface and spray some lube down in there to sit.

So do the washers sit on the outer circumference of the cap or do they fit down in the cap and get stacked up through the cap where the pin would sit during normal assembly? .....are you following my question

I used to work at that big brick building at the corner of 23rd and e 7th, it used to be the sf chronicle, Oakland hub. pretty close to the park street bridge going into alameda

I'm on the Harbor Bay part of Alameda a couple doors down from the Raiders HQ/practice field on the waterfront/tidal marsh area.  I often go to Park St for lunch though.  Just work though, the apt is over by Lake Merritt.

i may have a square front d shaft if you really want one...i think after i link i can run a stock one..

Much appreciated  , but I'm going to try and use what I got, especially since OCD donated the shaft to me and I put $130 into getting it shortened/balanced.  If things go to hell, I may need to revisit your offer.

[OVRAROK]

the washers I used where as close to the size of the pin as possible

[jmac80 [OP]]

Got into it last night.....didn't work out so well.  I'll at least be buying u-joints now.....

My problem was having all four caps moving around at once was too much for me to keep up with sitting on the floor in a poorly lit area using a vise that was not mounted to anything.  I did my best to keep up with everything coming apart but in the end I was 1 freaking roll pin short.  Started off 4 short and found 2 buried in grease/dirt of the joint.  Found another inside the grease path of the u-joint (inside the cross). Spent an hour combing through the grime on the floor and what was left on the parts before saying f-it and knocking the joints completely out of the yoke and shaft and giving up on salvaging them (strangely, did not loose any of those pins).  Also, I did not recover a spring from inside the CV...WTF may be buying that as well....I need to look and see if it's stuck in the grease on the shaft side of the joint.  All in all spent about 1 hour cleaning cap paths, digging out grime, removing clips, and removing zerks, 1.5 hours trying to baby out the joints for salvage, 1 hour looking for those f-ing pins (and yes, I was using a magnet), 15 minutes to knock joints out of yoke and shaft sides, and 30+ minutes cleaning up.......probably should have started before 10PM.  Pretty sleepy today at work

I did pop off the dust shield, so now just awaiting die grinder to arrive in mail for clearance step.

Should have just decided to replace joints from the get go and went at it with no mercy instead of being in zombie mode today...gonna have some money invested in this free driveshaft before it's all said and done!!

What are thoughts on where to purchase u-joints?  Cheap-Os at O'reilly as they don't see a ton of use or call up the stealer get the OEM parts?

[OVRAROK]

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/toyota-matsuba-matsui-u-joints-universal-joint.html

[mudmaster]

I have no failures using Precision.

[jmac80 [OP]]

I have no failures using Precision.

I'm leaning this way.

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/toyota-matsuba-matsui-u-joints-universal-joint.html

I know a lot of people swear by these.  They're about 2x the price (considering shipping) of the Precisions Mudmaster likes...just called Orielly's $17.00 each.  Strangely, front shaft rear joint application is not listed on the Matsuba website.  I believe they're all the same though. 
•1979-1995 Toyota Pickup/Hilux (Front Shaft Front Joint, Rear Shaft Front and Rear Joint, NON CV)

Also, I can honestly say I've never worn out a u-joint that I installed in a vehicle. Either wrecked em or sold em .....or both before they had a chance to wear out.  I may be eating my words though.

[blackdiamond]

There's two way to view the value of parts. First, you can look at the potential savings and consider the potential risk of premature failure for a potentially lesser part. Second, you can think about if you would be kicking yourself for "saving" $x if you end up doing a trail repair.

For example, saving $50 might seem like a great deal, you might quickly hand someone $50 or more if you could magically fix a trail break.

I am not intending to suggest that the Precision joints are inferior because I have no experience with them. Just sharing a way to evaluate things in general.

[jmac80 [OP]]

For example, saving $50 might seem like a great deal, you might quickly hand someone $50 or more if you could magically fix a trail break.

I'd give that and all the beer in the cooler.....and maybe the wife if she was barking in my ear about being broke down!  Just kidding, only half the beer....and the wife.  Nah, she's pretty good. 

I've actually never seen (in person) a u-joint break to the point you couldn't drive it....only seen them start popping and carrying on but would still pull.  That said, I have seen a yoke break on a trail, but that was on a Nissan (....uuummm, I'll be nice and stop at that).  I'm also not as rough on my stuff as most of you guys; big part of this is my tires are only 31s.

Blackdiamond, you'll probably roll you eyes, but with the u-joints out and not being able to locate my spring for the CV, I went ahead and ordered a Precision replacement ball and spring kit for that joint as well.  I figured, with both u-joints and the CV all being Precision, from Orielly, and all having lifetime warranty, if I have a problem with one, I'll just pull them all and take it all back and get 3 new parts.  That's $80 to have everything be new and under warranty on that shaft end anyway.  The u-joint on the axle side will probably go the first time it sees 4x4 in this truck.

.......spending more money. Precision CV kit was $45. Called NAPA just to see and they had SKF for $75.  Pick up at Orielly in the morning.

[mudmaster]

You'll be fine!

[redneckcustoms13]

I've ran 3 toyotas I own personally with 35s in them and tires from 33-40" with a 300hp v8. I have not broken a precision due to it wearing. Only from being stupid and dumping the clutch at 4500 rpm on asphalt with 38.5x16-15 tsl's on 15x14 steel wheels. That's alot of weight to twist. Never once failed a precision with a 4cyl or v6 truck. Including abusing them with 40s on a 4cyl truck.

[jmac80 [OP]]

Update - Progressing but slowly.

Picked up the center ball Saturday morning, did the grinding for extra travel/angle, and realized later in the afternoon I had the wrong part....it was my fault I didn't go back and look at OCD's earlier post to confirm the year.  I had asked for one from an 83 and not an 86.  Anyway took it back Sunday and reordered for Monday pickup. 

Monday - ball day - the ball came out fairly easy using a trick from one of the other forums.  The thread owner actually cut his out with grinder and Dremel, but one of the comments said to fashion up a puller.  I tried a couple of pry out methods first with no avail.  This got tricky because of the seat lip being already trimmed and thin on the top due to the grinding mod for more angle.  After giving up on prying (BTW - several other vehicles seem to have the ball in the H and can be pried out much easier....web research), I finally moved to puller as should have done initially. 

- Pry off outer seal (holds grease on ball surface not the needle bearings inside.  Toyota seal looked beefier than Precision, and Toyota had brass lip around outside.
-Pull out needle bearings and seal if you can easily
-Flip the ball over, there will be a smaller hole on the bottom (actually two concentric holes with the inner one being what I believe to the be the spring seat of the CV).  Use punch or whatever and beat the seat loose inside the ball.  It's brass or something soft and will quickly deform, working it back and forth across the ball and will eventually allow you to get it sideways and smashed enough to pull it out with needle nose or whatever.  By this point the oil seal inside the ball should be gone or ready to fall out, remove if still there.
-Fashion the puller...3/8" all thread, 2 nuts, washer, and large socket (the cheapo spindle sockets worked great because they're 3/8 drive).  Put tape around 1 nut and push into large opening in ball, don't cover hole, and use tape to wedge in place.  Flip the ball over and inside all thread through small hole and catch a couple turns into the bolt.  Apply socket, washer, last nut, and go to town with metric wrench on SAE nut.  Popped right out.

Note - There is talk on the internet of removing a "plastic plug" from the bottom and using a (bent) punch to knock out ball.  I would not recommend this/believe it is nearly impossible.  I pulled the plug, and it is not plastic.  It appears to be a vent.  It is a press fit round pin with a slot (like for a screwdriver) on the inside (facing ball).  The pin has a flat side that does not correspond to the round hole it fits in.  on the back (outside)  The pin is mushroomed and holds a piece of rubber down against the yoke/ball housing/bearing grease reservior.  If you really want to take it out, use a punch or small screwdriver to push it out from inside out.  You could remove it without pullling needle bearing/messing with ball/bearing set up if you had to.  I think the flat spot allowed an opening to the rubber to allow it to push out under positive pressure?? Why the grease can't come out the front, who knows, cause it does....anyway.

New ball when in with little effort.  Started it with a 30mm socket and had to finish seating it with punch.  Inner lip of oil seal almost got screwed up, the seal is built like any other seal but the inner lip (like a shaft would ride) gets pushed up and out and squeezes around the ball.  I had a small section of the lip that didn't come up right and noticed before completely seating seal, so I turned the ball opening over that area and worked it up....king of like a pedal road bike tire install.

After that started into u-joints.....They are being a b**ch!!!.  I somewhat screwed up my vise trying to press them in....the beat on them method is not good here with the CV bearing exposed and when the pin is in the CV ball you can screw it up.  So, yesterday I rented a ball jointed puller from Orrielly and got the caps in the yoke and shaft sides, going to do the H tonight.  This would have been much easier if vise was mounted, but I'm getting them in slowly (5hrs to get the 4 caps in w/ prepping mating surfaces).  I struggled to keep the caps straight while pressing in, actually I did not.  I constantly was having to move the parts around in the tool to keep in best alignment I could.

Here are some pics of the grinding, the ball puller, and new vs old parts (ball retainer ring and oil seal sleeves look different).

[jmac80 [OP]]

pics

[jmac80 [OP]]

couple more

[jmac80 [OP]]

parts

[jmac80 [OP]]

Finally note for today, so I got the Precision u-joints from Orrielly.....two joints right?  So they looked completely different (measurements were the same and so were part numbers).  Must be a redesign, but one joint had zerk on the cap and other had it in the center of the cross.  The casting of the cross the and details of the caps (rounded vs straight edges / markings) were different too.  Wish I would have noticed before installing the one with zerk on cross, would have taken it back and swithed for zerk on cap like stock set-up.....easier to grease too.

[jmac80 [OP]]

Well, the party's over.  Busted the H putting first cap in it last night. ......I'm about ready to throw in the towel on this thing and pay for someone else to do it for me.

Still have few homebrew options....pull H off 81 shaft and use it (would need another u-joint as I lost needles when the H busted and cap shot out of it...factory needles are bigger so can't borrow from old joints).  Other option is buy the CV ball for the 81 and replace it, trying to reuse old u-joints.  Second option may not be too bad.  I would only have to pull u-joint out of H on one side to access CV, but would have to switch back to old tranfer case flange and drill out yoke holes to larger size.

[mudmaster]

Machine shop with a press may be an option for you?

[:)bestgen4runner]

I love My square tube shaft.
Its heavy, never going to bend it.
only cons.
Not for really high speeds and will make a click noise if I have not pulled it apart for grease in a while.
other than that she is tough and cheap.

[OVRAROK]

My front drive shaft is, trailer hitch receiver, and trailer hitch 4 point tube 

[:)bestgen4runner]

My front drive shaft is, trailer hitch receiver, and trailer hitch 4 point tube 

Same here
works great