Topic: 2016 offroading 101, Rookie Run At Walker Valley 07/17/16

[:)bestgen4runner]

So My plan is to take out a group of 4x4 beginners.  By beginners, I mean people that are new to the sport. Maybe they have been on a run or two. Maybe There vehicle is in the early stages of its off road evolution. I have met a few people that just want someone to take them out so they can give it a try and see if its right for them.
I have had some great experiences over the years enjoying the trails and off road environment.
I would like To grow the off road community and give some of the guys out there a chance to wheel in a safe and structured group setting.
Here are my thoughts and plans.
#1 First off I need a veteran to Lead The group. I have experience but would not consider Myself a trail boss.
I have reached out to Blackdiamond and Sqwadoosh in hopes that one of them will take this position for me.
#2 I plan to be coordinator for the event, so any questions, interest, or suggestions shoot them My way. 
#3 Maximum of ten vehicle including the trail boss and Myself.
#4 Not all of the guys are Marlin Crawler forum Members, but I would really like to bring a few  rookies with us.
#5 Its going to be a day trip. Meet up early for breakfast in Mt Vernon. Then head for the trail for a day of offroad adventures.
#6 Its Washington so we wheel in all weather conditions. Rain, snow, zombie Apocalypse, or Heat wave its a go.
 
Here is the list so far. I will update as It changes.
#1 Blackdiamond Trail boss   1989 Toyota 4runner 100%
Helipilot77 as copilot.
#2 :)Bestgen4runner Coordinator/ assistant trail boss  1987 Toyota 4runner  100%
#3 Papa smurf      Spotter #1   1993 Jeep Cherokee  100%
#4 Ezriderdanger   Spotter #2  1987 Toyota Extcab   100%
#5 James (White Knight)     1990 Jeep yj   traded it in on a 2013 Jeep JK          90% "wow"
#6 Wheeler (Yes, That's his name)     2000 Toyota 4runner   40%
#7 Eric Montgomery  1992 Toyota Extcab  75%
NEW #8 Dustin  "Team Suzuki"          1995 Suzuki Sidekick  80%
NEW #9 Jesse "The apprentice"   1991 Jeep Cherokee (Eric's old one)  100%
#10 open slot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Note: Discovery pass is required for each vehicle in Walker valley.

If your interested please let Me know.

[mudmaster]

I'd go, but............well you know

[blackdiamond]

I would like to go but need to figure out the logistics and how that vs. mini fits my schedule. I don't think I can do both, but I will let you know. Don't count me out...or in...yet.

[SqWADoosh]

You know my stance. If you are willing to take them to a more suitable location for first time off roaders then I will happily fill your #1 spot. I wish you luck all the same. This is definitely a great thing. 

[blackdiamond]

Looks like the family camping trip that is being postponed from this weekend is being rescheduled for July 15-17 so I am pretty much out at this point.

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

You know my stance. If you are willing to take them to a more suitable location for first time off roaders then I will happily fill your #1 spot. I wish you luck all the same. This is definitely a great thing. 

I appreciate any input you have, you are experienced at coordinating this type of event.

I'd go, but............well you know

.
Nothing would make me happier than if my friend mark's truck was running and ready to come with.

Looks like the family camping trip that is being postponed from this weekend is being rescheduled for July 15-17 so I am pretty much out at this point.

I have a good feeling that my Moab buddy just might lead this expedition.

[SqWADoosh]

I look at Rookie runs like this:

1. Don't get them in over there head on their first time out. All this does is leave them discouraged and sometimes even afraid of ever going wheeling again.
2. Take them somewhere only their 4x4 could get them. I know what you are thinking "well if you are worried about getting them in over there head then its kind of tough to take them somewhere only an off-road rig can take them". Its about finding that balance of moderately difficult but not overwhelming. Its the walk before you run mentality.
3. I try and make it somewhere with beautiful sights to take in. Walker and Reiter while they are great ORVs have no sights to take in. For me getting into nature and taking in its splendor is as much a part of it as the challenge is or even more. It is definitely what I would say got me hooked on wheeling.
4. Build their confidence by spotting for them while they drive obstacles as well as having them stand near you and watch/learn how to spot themselves. That way they can spot for their buddies when they go out again. Which if the trip is done right they will be chomping at the bit to go again.
5. Have them walk you through their rig as it stands now and what their plans are for it. Share your lessons learned from your build or knowledge you've learned from seeing other people's builds of the same make and model. I'm a big proponent and helping people avoid mistakes in their build if you can. This isn't to say that you should preach to them or expect them to take your word as gospel. However you will find that they will be ever so grateful for the advice and help.
6. Recommend what is next for them based on what you saw in their wheeling during the day. Ask them how they felt on the obstacles during the run. Ask them what they think they are missing or if they have any questions for you. Let them do the talking first then at the end make your recommendations.
7. Most importantly make it fun and relaxing. One of the big mistakes I made when I started my club was getting guys in over their heads. It is the worst thing you can do as instead of having a good relaxing time like wheeling should be they are stressed. They are stressed about damaging their rigs, they are worried about hurting themselves and or their passengers, and often enough the thing bothering them the most is that they are holding you back. You'll find that these guys are going to be scared to death that they aren't doing well enough and being resented for it. I know it is odd and definitely not how you are going to feel, but I promise you it is going to be a major concern for them.

I still believe the cle elum trail system and specifically the fortune creek trails are a better fit for this run. It checks off all the boxes for location. It is beautiful, it is just difficult enough to get their hearts pumping in the right way without the negatives. It has miles of trails so they can get the hang of their vehicles and how to drive them off-road. Its a great spot for beginners. Thats just my two cents for what its worth. 

[SqWADoosh]

Here are some great videos showing you the trails I'm referencing. As you can see most of the vehicles in these videos are beginners and having a great time which is what is most important.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fortune+creek+trail

[blackdiamond]

Here are some great videos showing you the trails I'm referencing. As you can see most of the vehicles in these videos are beginners and having a great time which is what is most important.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fortune+creek+trail

Here are some great videos showing you the trails I'm referencing. As you can see most of the vehicles in these videos are beginners and having a great time which is what is most important.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fortune+creek+trail

I don't know anything about the trails at Walker or the rigs that are planning to go, but from the first video on the list of Fortune Creek I'm not sure that I'd classify that as "wheeling" though it looks like a beautiful place that could be fun.  Videos often don't show things exactly as they are, so it's entirely possible that it's more difficult than it appears.  Realizing that rookie drivers can't be expected to get maximum performance out of their rigs, I think back to some of the trails that I ran in my 85 with open differentials and doubt I would even need to put it in 4wd unless I just wanted the added control of low range.

I am assuming that the "rookies" will at least be sporting something better than highway tread, but don't have any idea.  I certainly don't want to get people in over their heads or scare them (a little adreneline never hurt anyone though), but would trust Chris to not put them into a bad position since he has some knowledge of the trails and also the individuals planning to go.  If I end up going my plan will be pretty much the same as it was in Moab.  I can get a sense of what a driver/rig are capable of pretty quickly and would spot with that in mind. 

As an FYI, it's looking like there's a chance that the family camping trip to Lake Crescent (postponed from this weekend) may end up happening the weekend of the Naches trip instead of the weekend of this trip. 

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

I don't know anything about the trails at Walker or the rigs that are planning to go, but from the first video on the list of Fortune Creek I'm not sure that I'd classify that as "wheeling" though it looks like a beautiful place that could be fun.  Videos often don't show things exactly as they are, so it's entirely possible that it's more difficult than it appears.  Realizing that rookie drivers can't be expected to get maximum performance out of their rigs, I think back to some of the trails that I ran in my 85 with open differentials and doubt I would even need to put it in 4wd unless I just wanted the added control of low range.

I am assuming that the "rookies" will at least be sporting something better than highway tread, but don't have any idea.  I certainly don't want to get people in over their heads or scare them (a little adreneline never hurt anyone though), but would trust Chris to not put them into a bad position since he has some knowledge of the trails and also the individuals planning to go.  If I end up going my plan will be pretty much the same as it was in Moab.  I can get a sense of what a driver/rig are capable of pretty quickly and would spot with that in mind. 

As an FYI, it's looking like there's a chance that the family camping trip to Lake Crescent (postponed from this weekend) may end up happening the weekend of the Naches trip instead of the weekend of this trip. 

Minimum of all-terrain tires for sure. Each person will have a full understanding of what they are getting involved in prior to coming on the trip. In all honesty this will be a mixed bag as far as the vehicles capability. Only three of the vehicles have open diffs and minimum lifts. I feel confident there will be something for everyone at Walker valley. Even black diamond might find something interesting if not his kind of challenge.
Andrew if you could put up the easy valley connecter video you made that would be appreciated.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

SqWADoosh, you were on my 2nd wheeling trip Ive ever been on months ago and you were terrific.  The weird thing about myself is that I had never been wheeling, as a passenger or other. Why I SAS my truck 10yrs ago is beyond me.  Walker was me and my trucks 1st location I went to, along with bestgen4runner(1st for his truck).  A had a lot of nerves going in to it as I did not know what to expect and had no clue where we were going.  I remember looking at the EZ valley entrance and thinking, umm is that where I go, OK.  Now I look back at it and laugh at myself.  Then we went to Reiter with you.   Again my confidence grew by the end of the day, even though I was driving like a grandpa.  I think the best thing that worked for me was confidence in who was leading, who was spotting, taking things at my pace, and my truck performing soundly.  The most nerve racking thing for me was spotting for others.  The fraise "blind leading the blind" kept running through my head.  I really admired how you spotted and your direction were very clear.  When it was my turn to spot I tried to mimic your example and ultimately butchered it while flapping my arms, lol.  For me spotting is as hard as driving.

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

 
Sure would be nice if that incredible spotter and trail boss was to come with us.
I feel confident that ezriderdanger would gladly yield his spoting duties.    

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

Yup!  last time I went for a stroll in the woods I told a guy in a 2010 Tacoma to follow me and he rips his bumper and fender off and dented his door.  I should be on a watch list for people you don't want spotting you. haha

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

 
This just announced
2016 Spotting 101
class date TBD
 

Idea credited to  easyriderdanger 

[blackdiamond]

My experience with spotting is that a lot (not all) of people fit into one of two groups.  One group intuitively spots well and the other is hopelessly clueless.

I think the key to being a great spotter is understanding the skill level of the driver, the capability of the rig, and having a full understanding of what the driver finds acceptable for their rig (i.e. damage).  I always spot from a perspective of keeping the rig clean and minimizing stress on the drivetrain as much as possible.  I don't enjoy spotting for someone that's thinks nothing of body damage.  I always look for the person that drives the most like me and try to get them to spot for me.

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

#3 Papa Smurf

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

#4 Easyriderdanger

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

#1 Our very own Blackdiamond currently at 98.3%

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

#2 :)Bestgen4runner
(This is one of My most favorite Pictures)

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

This is a great video of two of the main trails planned for rookies.
Thanks to Sqwadoosh for use of video.

[blackdiamond]

Video's can be deceiving, but I don't see anything too concerning.  There seemed to be bypasses for the majority of the places that I would expect a closer to stock truck to really struggle.  It may come down to how wet it is as there were clearly some slick sections where all terrain tires and open differentials might be an interesting combo.  I would just try to surround the less built rigs with the more built rigs and keep the straps handy for the occasional friendly tug.  I didn't see anything that I would expect to create any major issues.  Not often is the "gatekeeper" an actual gate...

It looks like the family camping trip is going to be scheduled on a weekend other than the weekend of this trip, but beyond that it's up in the air.  An earlier weekend is what's currently being discussed when a cousin from Michigan is in town.  I may end up wheeling two weekend in a row yet...

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

I anticipate much dryer conditions than what is seen in the video. You are correct that bypasses are all over. This is one of the main reasons I like this area for a beginner. I like the idea of putting the less capable trucks in the middle that makes good sense. not sure how many straps are available as most of the guys are not fully equipped with all the recovery gear. I will come fully prepaired on my end. I will look into who else can help in that area.
There are much more challenging trails that the more capable vehicle will have a chance at.

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

Update:
#5 James Heller as decided his YJ is not up to the challenge after watching the video last night and has just traded it in on a 2013 Jeep JK. "wow" has not even been on a trail yet and already upgrading. She Is completely stock. Somebody is hooked already. I think I showed Him to many Washington Wet wheelers videos before and after Our Moab trip. Guy Is super pumped.
Should be getting picture tonight and I will post it asap.
He says It needs real tires and as soon as his wife cools down he will warm her up by purchasing them. SWEET!!!   

[blackdiamond]

I anticipate much dryer conditions than what is seen in the video. You are correct that bypasses are all over. This is one of the main reasons I like this area for a beginner. I like the idea of putting the less capable trucks in the middle that makes good sense. not sure how many straps are available as most of the guys are not fully equipped with all the recovery gear. I will come fully prepaired on my end. I will look into who else can help in that area.
There are much more challenging trails that the more capable vehicle will have a chance at.

I have 20' and 30' straps.  We should only need straps handy on the rigs leading the less built rigs.

Update:
#5 James Heller as decided his YJ is not up to the challenge after watching the video last night and has just traded it in on a 2013 Jeep JK. "wow" has not even been on a trail yet and already upgrading. She Is completely stock. Somebody is hooked already. I think I showed Him to many Washington Wet wheelers videos before and after Our Moab trip. Guy Is super pumped.
Should be getting picture tonight and I will post it asap.
He says It needs real tires and as soon as his wife cools down he will warm her up by purchasing them. SWEET!!!   

I think the YJ was an excellent platform to start from, but if you're going to run square headlights it should be in a Toyota!  The 4 cyl YJs are pretty affordable and if paired with t-case gearing and reasonable sized tires can work great.

[blackdiamond]

Update:
#5 James Heller as decided his YJ is not up to the challenge after watching the video last night and has just traded it in on a 2013 Jeep JK. "wow" has not even been on a trail yet and already upgrading. She Is completely stock. Somebody is hooked already. I think I showed Him to many Washington Wet wheelers videos before and after Our Moab trip. Guy Is super pumped.
Should be getting picture tonight and I will post it asap.
He says It needs real tires and as soon as his wife cools down he will warm her up by purchasing them. SWEET!!!   

So he is bringing the JK on the trip?  Rookie driver plus unfamiliar driver equal...I guess we'll find out.

[Rockcrawlintoy]

If y is a rubicon it will be set with lockers front and rear and 4:1 t case. My friend did fordyce with one with a leveling kit and 35s but otherwise stock

[:)bestgen4runner [OP]]

Update:
#5 James Heller as decided his YJ is not up to the challenge after watching the video last night and has just traded it in on a 2013 Jeep JK. "wow" has not even been on a trail yet and already upgrading. She Is completely stock. Somebody is hooked already. I think I showed Him to many Washington Wet wheelers videos before and after Our Moab trip. Guy Is super pumped.
Should be getting picture tonight and I will post it asap.
He says It needs real tires and as soon as his wife cools down he will warm her up by purchasing them. SWEET!!!   

So as far as the YJ not up to par. That's more of a joke than anything. I am sure it would have done just fine.
But I suspect a JK will do even better.
I asked him If he was sure he wanted to bring it up there. He said its got plastic fenders. I said "ok" it might get some scratches. That's ok was his response. He has seen The video and feels ok about it.
I will say, that if it has the stock tires on when its time to go I would say no to that. For his and the trucks well being.
But I am confident it will be ready to go come the 17th (over a month away)

If y is a rubicon it will be set with lockers front and rear and 4:1 t case. My friend did fordyce with one with a leveling kit and 35s but otherwise stock

Still not sure on the Rubicon but I will find out tonight when pictures arrive. 
I know its a 4door. Are they all ? no Jeep expert here.
I told him he needs 37's or 40's he just smiled sort of an evil smile. and I think there was a hint of a snicker.

So he is bringing the JK on the trip?  Rookie driver plus unfamiliar driver equal...I guess we'll find out.

I have three trails in mind that he will be able to do with very little difficullty I am sure.
If he tries to get crazy and go on any of the big boy rides I will stop him until papa smurf shows him what a Jeep can't do with 36's. That should deter him enough. LOL

This trip is starting to really come together.
 

[Rockcrawlintoy]

Still not sure on the Rubicon but I will find out tonight when pictures arrive. 
I know its a 4door. Are they all ? no Jeep expert here.
I told him he needs 37's or 40's he just smiled sort of an evil smile. and I think there was a hint of a snicker

Naa they are not all rubicons. It is a trim level like not all Tacomas are trd. Regardless he needs to add a truss and Knuckle gussets to the axle before gettin big tires or he will bend the housing.

[blackdiamond]

If y is a rubicon it will be set with lockers front and rear and 4:1 t case. My friend did fordyce with one with a leveling kit and 35s but otherwise stock

It would also be sporting BFG KM tires.

[Rockcrawlintoy]

It would also be sporting BFG KM tires.

he said it was a 2013 so it might have new tires.