Topic: Wheeling near Sonora? [Fordyce Sept 12th & 13th]

[Steve-44]

I'm trying to make it down from Seattle to a buddy's funeral - uh, I mean wedding - in Sonora in early September.  We are hoping to hit Rubicon during his honeymoon the week after (yes, he has permission) but I'd like to hit a few more places while I'm in the area.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I like difficult, really technical, super slow crawling. 

If anyone is able to go wheeling during the week, I'd be even more excited to not have to go alone as well as to have a trail guide of sorts.


 EDIT:  Planning on hitting Fordyce
Tentative plan is to hit the trail early on Friday Sept 12th from Eagle Lakes Rd, camp at Meadow Lake then run back out via Committee exit Sunday to Cisco Grove.

[*** YELLER ***]

there is

Niagara Rim Trail

Slick Rock

Crandall / Deer Creek

La Grange

Ramsey Trail

just to name a few good luck and have fun

[Steve-44 [OP]]

Thanks YELLER!  I'll look those up.

By the way, what are the rules for an out of state rig?  I know Cali has some sort of special tag or sticker for ORV's, right?  Probably a lot of other Cali laws that my rig wouldn't comply with too, but it's tagged and insured in TN.  (and I'm military too if that makes any difference)

[1985CRAWLER]

if u like difficult, really technical, super slow crawling then ur just like me, hit fordyce trail. you wont be disappointed

[Steve-44 [OP]]

We MUST be alike, because I spent a good portion of yesterday researching area trails including the ones posted above, and decided Fordyce is #1 on the list so far.  Plus, my rig is also a 1985 Crawler. 

[1985CRAWLER]

if im not doing anything/ work/school ill ride the trail with u.

my first time running it i was surprised at all the real wheeling it has to offer.

[*** YELLER ***]

Thanks YELLER!  I'll look those up.

By the way, what are the rules for an out of state rig?  I know Cali has some sort of special tag or sticker for ORV's, right?  Probably a lot of other Cali laws that my rig wouldn't comply with too, but it's tagged and insured in TN.  (and I'm military too if that makes any difference)

yer Military you don't need to tag yer rig in Cali. as long as yer stationed here in Cali., having said that, I honestly don't think anyone will bust yer balls about it, because yer in the Military so go have fun and take lots of pics. I live 10 min from Sonora in Tuolumne have fun

[Steve-44 [OP]]

Been doing a lot of research on Fordyce and my #1 question looming right now is what to do about staying off of pavement to get back to my trailer.  It seems that paying to park at Cisco Campground is what most people do, but my rig doesn't like to go fast for long periods of time nor CAN it go very fast anyway, so getting on 80 for many miles is a no-go.  I don't really want to take the shortcut back to Fordyce Creek Rd and miss the second half of the trail, but that appears to be the only option besides ferrying my tow rig as far as possible towards Meadow Lake, and that option would take half a day in itself.  Just how impossible and risky is it to run the second half backwards?  My preference would be to run the whole trail to Meadow Lake in one or two days, then run back to the Committee crossing "short cut" to get out.

[Steve-44 [OP]]

So....  anyone able to wheel Fordyce with me sometime between Sunday Sept 7th and Tuesday Sept 9th?  OR, if it'd work out better, I can probably do it Friday & Saturday, the 12th & 13th.

[1985CRAWLER]

i can do the 12th and 13th possibly. would have to see if im working or not but i would be down to do the whole trail or go in eagle lakes and camp that night maybe go up to WH3 and out committee exit the next day.

[Steve-44 [OP]]

I've heard mention of coming in at Eagle Lakes a couple of times but I haven't found any info on that.  Is there a parking area there or a road that I can't see on the map or something?  And why do people like skipping the first half of the trail so much?  Seems like a large majority just go for WH3 and that's the whole trail for them.  What's up with that?

Just for full disclosure on the dates, my connundrum is that I have more time at the beginning of the week to allow for unforseen issues, but on the other hand, I am hitting Rubicon on 10/11 with my buddy during his honeymoon and don't want to break or risk missing that.  But if I wait and do Fordyce that second weekend, after Rubicon, and have anything major that keeps me from being back on the road by Sunday morning, I'm in serious trouble if I don't get back to Seattle in time.  I'm military so I can't just "take a sick day" or "phone in".

[1985CRAWLER]

eagle lakes rd is where the true begining of the trail starts. drive line hill, 1st and 2nd water crossing, wh1 and 2 and then u get to committee river crossing where u can cross it and go out the new committee trail to cisco grove or dont cross it and go up to wh3 and the the rest of them and meadow lake.

yes there is an area where u can park your tow rig at eagle lakes. last time i was there i saw a couple truck and trailers parked there in the dirt.

usually if u ran the begining of the trail before u will kno its much quicker to get to committee river and wh3 where all the action is by going in through cisco grove. quicker to get out as well if u break rather than double backing down all the winch hills and knarly sections out back to eagle lakes.

if u have triple cases and dont wheel like a crazy man on crack then im sure u wont break, although the chance is there i doubt u will if your rig is trail proven and in tip top shape and you know what youre doing out there.

i think u will find fordyce more fun than rubicon if u like the harder stuff. IMO

[Steve-44 [OP]]

So to do the trail in its entirety, if parking at Cisco, I'd take the left "Y" onto Grouse Ridge Trail up to Eagle Lakes somewhere and not stay to the right on Carlyle Rd?  My previous thought, from looking at satellite views of the area, was to take Carlyle Rd until it apparently became the trail.  What's the difference in those two routes; pros and cons for either?

I definitely don't wheel crazy; I am all about slow and controlled crawling.  I doubt I'll break, I rarely do, but I'm usually with a group that, all together, has any tools, equipment and parts we could ever need.  This trip I won't be with my normal groups and may even be alone at some points (I know, I don't like that idea either).  So I'm just nervous about the possibilities of breaking something I'm not set up to fix on the trail (for instance, I don't have a welder).  I'm in major prep mode now though, trying to either fix anything that's on it's way out or have spares. 

I have been under the impression for a long time that Rubicon isn't terribly difficult unless you make it that way, so yeah, I imagine Fordyce will be a little more my style.  In truth, Fordyce may be almost the perfect trail for me.  I like hardcore crawling, I like water crossings, and I like expedition style trips too; Only part I don't like so far is the long way back to the tow rig. 

[1985CRAWLER]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/fordyce-creek/527701d1275967804-cool-stuff-near-fordyce-creek-trail-fordyce-map.jpg

http://www.everytrail.com/guide/fordyce-creek-4x4-trail-california/map
good maps

no clue what the Grouse ridge trail is. everytime i have gone i go up HWY 80 to either eagle lakes rd or cisco grove campground.
never heard of carlyle rd either. but im sure thats the rd that turns into the trail.

the trail head is easily accessible right off the eagle lakes rd exit of HWY 80. you can park the tow rig at cisco and drive down back 80 a few hundred feet down to eagle lakes rd and start the trail and then when u are finished come out the committee exit thatll bring u back to your tow rig at cisco. i believe u have to pay to keep your truck and trailer in the lot there though.

theres some hardcore crawling there, trust me. 1st time i went i was nervous alot at times.

ive broke there twice now and still drove home in the rig, lost 1st gear at the beginning one trip and sheared hub studs on committee exit last trip a couple weeks ago.

[Steve-44 [OP]]

We're back on the same page now - Eagle Lakes Rd turns into Carlyle Rd which turns into the trail.  Grouse Ridge veers off to the left not too long after getting on Carlyle and, according to the second link you sent, is where the Sierra Trek staging area is.  I was looking at the map and trying to find roads and trails right at the Eagle Lakes.  That's why I was confused.

I did hear that parking at Cisco costs a little, like $5-$10/day, but that it's worth it because they actually do look after your vehicles, not just take money to use the asphalt.  That's probably what I'm going to do; partly for the security aspect since I may have other stuff on my trailer, and partly for the sheer size of the parking area.  My tow rig with trailer is over 50' long so I can't just park anywhere.

I was just in the process of typing out a long expanation about why I was going to stick with my original plan of going in Monday.  But then it dawned on me that even though I'm worried about unforseen issues causing delays in my departure back home by going Friday, if I have someone with me I'll have a better chance of getting them resolved quickly.  Plus it'll be a weekend so there will surely be other people around to help in case of catastrophic issues.  So as I type this, my thought is now that I will take you up on hitting Fordyce Friday & Saturday if you end up still able to go.  If you think you can do that, let me know and let's start hashing out some details.  Any idea how long it'll take me to tow from Rubicon to Fordyce; Loon Lake/Ice House Rd to Cisco Grove I guess?

[1985CRAWLER]

gotcha, yea when u see it in person its really simple.

they have a guard there that watches the lot i think.

id park there and drive the rig down the hwy to the eagle lakes rd exit and thats where u would start.

yea on a nice sunny weekend there will be plenty of rigs on the trail and lots willing to lend a hand if need be, im pretty positive if i put in the request for the time off now ill be able to go, could probly have some others tag along as well being its a weekend.

according to google maps it says 2 hours and 29 minutes but i would say 3 if your towing and have to go 55 up those big inclines on HWY 80.

[Steve-44 [OP]]

So how would you want to plan the trip?  Full trail to ML Friday then back down WH 5-4-3 to Committee to Cisco Saturday?

While I'm asking about times for trails, how does Rubicon normally work?  My buddy and I haven't worked out any details for that yet either, so I need to figure out how soon I need to be back off that trail to be able to safely get to Cisco Friday morning.

[1985CRAWLER]

That sounds good, we will see how things turn out.

rubicon depends if u run the entire trail, i would allow a couple days to run it in a timely manner.

[Steve-44 [OP]]

I think, for time's sake, I will likely run Rubicon from Loon Lake to Observation Point and back.  I'd like to run 100% of it but, as previously stated, my rig doesn't do pavement unless I have no other choice, and that'd be a LOT of street time.  Am I missing anything by going that route; anything cool about the Wentworth Springs leg or the trail from Observation Point east to SLT?

[Stew_pedaso]

Why not head in Tahoe(tahoma) side for rubicon. Go to loon and then hit wentworth back to Tahoe. Sets you up for Fordyce in quicker time. Hardly any road time that way. You trailer down to Cisco grove on hwy 80. Decide whether to do top side of Fordyce or brave the whole trail. It's only 1 mile freeway time if you decide to tackle lower part of fordyce. No freeway if you want to do top side

[Stew_pedaso]

To make the whole trail would require night wheeling. Me going slow from eagle lakes made it to committee a little after dark. Running the whole trail in two days back out to trailer requires a lot of good luck

[yotee]

To make the whole trail would require night wheeling. Me going slow from eagle lakes made it to committee a little after dark. Running the whole trail in two days back out to trailer requires a lot of good luck

eagle lakes in my runner to commitee isn't an after dark thing. in your truck it's a yotee needs another beer thing. don't scare him off

[Steve-44 [OP]]

Why not head in Tahoe(tahoma) side for rubicon. Go to loon and then hit wentworth back to Tahoe. Sets you up for Fordyce in quicker time. Hardly any road time that way. You trailer down to Cisco grove on hwy 80. Decide whether to do top side of Fordyce or brave the whole trail. It's only 1 mile freeway time if you decide to tackle lower part of fordyce. No freeway if you want to do top side

Great info, thanks.  Going in Tahoe has an added advantage for my trail buddy since he's vactioning in Tahoe at the time.  But it has the disadvantage of adding in that long section of trail between Caddillac and SLT.  How much extra time are we talking about by adding that section; also how much extra to add in Wentworth section?

To make the whole trail would require night wheeling. Me going slow from eagle lakes made it to committee a little after dark. Running the whole trail in two days back out to trailer requires a lot of good luck

I know it's long and I'd need luck on my side, but what I envision happening is this: Starting early on Friday from Eagle Lakes to Meadow Lake in one day. Then back out WH5>WH4>WH3 to Committee exit Saturday.  Is that doable?  (night wheeling is fine as long as it's not ALL night)

eagle lakes in my runner to commitee isn't an after dark thing. in your truck it's a yotee needs another beer thing. don't scare him off

So you're saying the first half of the trail wouldn't get in to night wheeling, right?  But that's only half the trail and, if my assumptions are correct, that's the easier half.

[1985CRAWLER]

its quick to be at fordyce from tahoe side, u leave tahoma go up to truckee and get on 80 and head west and youll be at cisco 25 min to 30 min later.

from loon it would be like 3 hours just cuz u have to go down to auburn then back up 80 again.

like stew said makin it from eagle lakes trail head to meadow in one day will take luck, ive never done this, last time i just ended up at committee like at 11pm and that was stopping alot to help others and bs around.

[Steve-44 [OP]]

its quick to be at fordyce from tahoe side, u leave tahoma go up to truckee and get on 80 and head west and youll be at cisco 25 min to 30 min later.

from loon it would be like 3 hours just cuz u have to go down to auburn then back up 80 again.

I'm liking this idea now.  But the question still remains: How much trail time does that add?  Like how long is it from Tahoma staging area to Observation Point?  Probably break even on overall times, but this way the "longer" time would be on the trail and not on the highway - and I like that!  I just wanna be sure it doesn't add TOO much extra trail time.

like stew said makin it from eagle lakes trail head to meadow in one day will take luck, ive never done this, last time i just ended up at committee like at 11pm and that was stopping alot to help others and bs around.

I could likely get away with running it in three days instead; I just hoped to do it quicker so as to have extra time in case of unforseen issues.  What would the time frames be if going Cisco>Committee on day 1, Committee>ML on day 2, then running backwards to Committee exit and back to Cisco on day 3?  If that third leg coming out can be done in about half a day, I'd still be okay on time to get home.

[Stew_pedaso]

I believe observation point to staging area was 45 min or so travel time. Just feels like forever. Lol

Last month during the week alone i was able to do eagle lakes to Cisco campgrounds in 6 hours. Taking my time enjoying the scenery while taking the bypass and nobody on the trail. One day is doable if you don't stop and everything is perfect.

From committee crossing to meadow is 4 miles I believe and that could be done easily in couple hours. Depends on how long people play in wh 3. That obstacle eats a lot of time even if nothing breaks

On a night run one time, a buddy and I made it to 2nd water crossing in 2.5 hours. 5th gear 2.28x2 on all flatish parts

[Steve-44 [OP]]

Excellent info Stew, thanks!

So you said you did Eagle to Cisco in 6hrs.  So to be sure I understand correctly, that's all the way in from the entrance, across the water at the "shortcut", then back down the FS roads to Cisco?  That'd mean you got to the crossing in about 4-5 hours I assume; Then I can add on 2-3 for getting to ML.  That comes to a total of 6-8 hours for a small, capable group with no major issues.

1985CRAWLER, how does that sound to you?  And how early can you hit the trail Friday morning?  Assuming you are off that is.

[Stew_pedaso]

Yeah. That timetable is pretty close. The other issue is people not in the group broke in the way

[Steve-44 [OP]]

Yeah. That timetable is pretty close. The other issue is people not in the group broke in the way

There's probably a high likelihood of that on Fordyce since it'll be on the weekend, but I think Rubicon will be as low of a chance as possible since it'll be Wednesday - Thursday.  That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[Stew_pedaso]

Rubicon will be open for sure. Friday evening and Saturday will be a little busy for fordyce. Wh 3 is kinda the party place now