Topic: Complete Newb Drivetrain Questions

[lostbuckaroo]

Hey guys I'm completely new to wheeling and the entire Crawler scene... However I saw a Truggy for the first time in person a couple weeks ago and I was instantly hooked!! I've been obsessed ever since... Reading, researching and obsessing. I'm the kind of guy that will enjoy the chalenge of the build just as much as wheeling it. I know, I know, I know, these are completely basic questions, but I've been looking around and everybody seems to contradict each other. So I just wanted to go to one place get some opinions and make a plan... Just like most of us I want the most bank for my buck$, and I'm not working with and unlimited budget. However I want to do it right the first time..! So thanks in advance for your patience!

-Anyway- I just picked up a 1980 Longbed Toy as a base. My plan is to build a Truggy, Linked front and rear, with either a full tub back half or OE Frame/homebrew flatbed not sure yet, on this yet. I want to stick with the stock Toyota Axles. If I researched right this puppy came with 4.39 gears??... (although I haven't verified yet) It sounds like doubling up transfer cases is the way to go so I'm planning on that.  Also planning on running Cary's GotPropane kit for fuel. Not sure about tire size, lockers and everything else, yet...   

I want to address the drivetrain first.

Ok so the questions:

Engine: If it turns out the engine is garbage should I just go with a 20r/22r hybrid or just get a 22r all together? Of course the truck has the 20r engine. The guy bought it from said it was a new rebuilt engine, (i have a receipt for it)  however he could not get it pass SMOG.. (California) .. Couldn't get it started yesterday when I picked it up it had been sitting for at least a year... Anyway not a big deal to  me I'm going to go through it and check engine condition anyway. This is going to be an Off Highway Vehicle so California SMOG is a non-issue.   If the engine compression etc turns out to be ok.. Obviously all of the smog systems will be stripped form the engine... It's been a while since I've looked at one of these little engines and man there's a spaghetti of vacuum lines. I've read and this guy I bought from told me that the carburetors on the 20r's can be a nightmare... In fact I think I got 4 different carbs with the truck..(some of which are CA smog legal some not). 

Transmission: Ditch the 4 speed for a 5 speed, or rebuild, re-seal and use what I got? The 4 speed thats in it has a swinging shifter which (I guess is common for this trans), the underside of the trans and transfercase are completely caked with a heavy layer of grease and dirt.

Transfer Case: The general consesnous seems to be the way to go is a double case setup, I know I need to get another case, but I've also read that some have different input spline counts is that correct? Like I said above the underside of the trans and transfercase are completely caked with a heavy layer of grease and dirt. So I'm sure at the bare minimum I need to do a seal kit on the case

Thanks in advice for your patience and help... I'm gonna go start a build thread!
Carlos

[HogCanyonHopper]

you're on the right track man. a good 22r on propane with a 5speed and dual ultimate set-up and you will be loving it, guaranteed 

[toyodaaddict]

id suggest getting away from the older shorter transmissions all together and go with a w56. iv always had good luck with 20r carbs there real simple and easy to work on. when i run a toy carb i prefer to keep/fix the emissions stuff so the engine runs as intended. iv had much better luck doing that than  running webers or removing emissions. with that said propane or efi is the way to go for sure. theres lots of info on this site about tcases, i believe all 79-95 non turbo 4cy cases are 21 spline. turbo cases are 23 spline. 21 spline can be converted to 23 spline with marlins gear. i run a 21 spline crawl box to a 23 spline rear case.

[lostbuckaroo [OP]]

id suggest getting away from the older shorter transmissions all together and go with a w56. iv always had good luck with 20r carbs there real simple and easy to work on. when i run a toy carb i prefer to keep/fix the emissions stuff so the engine runs as intended. iv had much better luck doing that than  running webers or removing emissions. with that said propane or efi is the way to go for sure. theres lots of info on this site about tcases, i believe all 79-95 non turbo 4cy cases are 21 spline. turbo cases are 23 spline. 21 spline can be converted to 23 spline with marlins gear. i run a 21 spline crawl box to a 23 spline rear case.

THanks for the reply! So when you say you prefer to leave all the emissions stuff on? Meaning SMOG (air pump) Cat converter etc?

[toyodaaddict]

THanks for the reply! So when you say you prefer to leave all the emissions stuff on? Meaning SMOG (air pump) Cat converter etc?

my reason for saying that is iv seen alot of people just start eliminating vacume lines,ect thinking they know what they're doing and next thing you know they cant figure out why there truck doesnt run right or gets poor mpg. if you have full %100 knowledge of how the system works and the effects removing a part will have then go for it, but i dont think youll notice any performance gains. i dont have that knowledge so i like to keep my engine running as the factory intended thats all. you mentioned propane, in my opinion that or efi is the best solution to carb problems. after going efi i do not care to wheel carbed again. lots of crazy steep hill climbs where im at an stalling out is not fun.

[lostbuckaroo [OP]]

my reason for saying that is iv seen alot of people just start eliminating vacume lines,ect thinking they know what they're doing and next thing you know they cant figure out why there truck doesnt run right or gets poor mpg. if you have full %100 knowledge of how the system works and the effects removing a part will have then go for it, but i dont think youll notice any performance gains. i dont have that knowledge so i like to keep my engine running as the factory intended thats all. you mentioned propane, in my opinion that or efi is the best solution to carb problems. after going efi i do not care to wheel carbed again. lots of crazy steep hill climbs where im at an stalling out is not fun.

Understand. Thank you!

[SwampDonkey931]

lostbuckaroo, take a look at my flatbed slash truggy rear.  Is that close to what you had in mind?

[SwampDonkey931]

I also have the 22r/20 hybrid, and i can't complain. But it's built.

[lostbuckaroo [OP]]

lostbuckaroo, take a look at my flatbed slash truggy rear.  Is that close to what you had in mind?

Similar yeah! My build has kinda taken a different turn for now. I found a somewhat built 84' and I'm selling the 80' but I would eventually like to do a truggy back half. Right now I'm probably gonna go with an internal roll cage, and leave the bobbed bed on it. If I go truggy back half I know I'm gonna want to link it.

Yep I'm building a 20r/22r right now. Just to the head to the machine shop. Hope to get started on the bottom end here in a couple of weeks.