Topic: 1UZFE or 2UZFE into 93 4Runner - Auto Tranny Questions???

[cebby]

On to the motor mounts...

Well - the previous notion of reusing the existing 3VZE motor moutns was only partially true.  The rubber isolators that are a part of the 1UZFE setup are way too tall - not to mention the configuration just isn't going to work.  Here's what I'm working with.

This is what the welded mount looks like in the 2nd Gen 4Runner/3Rd Gen Truck with the 3VZE - all of these pics show the drivers side mount - the passenger side is just the opposite, nothing out of the ordinary:


Here's the motor mount attached to the 3VZE engine:


Here's the mount removed from the motor and bolted back into the 4Runner


The nut down inside there holds the part that bolts the engine to the rubber portion of the mount:


Here's the 3VZE mount split into its components:


Well, the 1UZFE driverside mount (rubber part) was trashed on this JDM motor, so here's a pic of the passenger side mount - you can see that its quite a bit different then the 3VZE mounts.


Here's the 1UZFE mount split into its components:


And finally, here's a side by side comparison of the two mounts:


I'm going to do something similar to the moutns made by "Sideshow" from Lextreme.  He has a 1UZFE in a 2WD 3rd Gen pickup - with NO BODYLIFT.  If you've been reading, it has been thought that this swap will only fit with a 2" BL.  I have a 1" BL and didn't want to go any higher - Hell, I'd like to take it out eventually.  Sideshow used the bottom half of the 3VZE mount and fashioned new part that attaches to the engine.  Seems to be pretty simple - I have a front diff to content with though, so mine will be slightly different.  Here's a pic of what he did:

[BUDDERS]

I like Sideshow's setup.  I e-mailed him a long time ago about this swap and If I rembember right, there are some autocad files on Lextreme for cutting these mounts out.  If you got a buddy that can run a CNC mill or a water jet that will operate off cnc programs, you might want to give him a call.  Otherwise trial and error will work eventually.

Are you going to use Castlemain Rod Shop's oil pan/pickup setup, or will yours work with your diff? 

[cebby [OP]]

Front sump is "supposed" to work with IFS (yeah I know...boo hiss IFS).  TwistyToy94 on Lextreme and Yotatech has that setup.  He has a 2" BL though and I'm hoping to get under my 1"BL  (considerably less actually, since I want to remove the BL when I go SA up front)  I thought I might need to slightly modify my existing oilpan with a notch out of the front to clear the relay rod (aka center link)

[cebby [OP]]

OK - I need to tap the Lex employees here:

I removed the pulley from the hydraulic engine fan oil pump.  In the process, I destroyed the pulley.  Couple this with the fact that I stripped the shaft when removing the nut originally (reverse threads) and I now have a need for some part numbers.  I need the shaft, nut and pulley.  The oil pump PN is 16920-50021 (this was also on it 136300-0030)

Can I get "just" parts for this thing, or do they only selll the whole kaboodle?

Thanks!

[BUDDERS]

Wow Cebby, I have never taken one of those apart.  I know that they don't come as seperate parts, so you might want to try a Ls400 pulley without the hydraulic fan setup.  It should bolt right in and give you less headaches.  They are a ton of money new though, so I would check the wrecking yard if I was you.  Kinda sucks when you try to save a few buck and then end up costing yourself more, doesn't it?   

[cebby [OP]]

Wow Cebby, I have never taken one of those apart.  I know that they don't come as seperate parts, so you might want to try a Ls400 pulley without the hydraulic fan setup.  It should bolt right in and give you less headaches.  They are a ton of money new though, so I would check the wrecking yard if I was you.  Kinda sucks when you try to save a few buck and then end up costing yourself more, doesn't it?   

OK, the LS400 one is just an idler and not the pump?  From what I've read they ARE interchangable.  The guys on the Lextreme forum have taken them apart to remove the inner workings of the pump and use them as idlers.  All I wanted was just the idler version and was willing to buy one anyway (not new though..)  So I need to track down a blown up 1UZFE somewhere...

Thanks Budders...

[cebby [OP]]

Well, the idea of removing the guts of the fan oil pump to turn it into an idler pulley seemed simple enough.  Little did I know what I was in for.  Every puller I tried was ineffective to remove the pulley.  So I finally go over to the shop press and have at it. 

Good news and bad news.  Good news is that I got it off.  Bad news is that I pringled the pulley in the process.  The pulley is unusable.

So, I initially set out to find an idler assembly that bolts into the same spot.  This is available on some models of 1UZ - namely the models that have electric fans.  I was told LS400's, but I have yet to confirm that.

Anyway, here's the item I'm referring to:

The offending pulley...


The whole unit:


With all the other stuff stripped off:


It's off - can't tell from the pic, but the pulley is fubar.


Here's what's inside:




For reference, this pulley was right above the crank pulley:


It turns out that some of the folks on the Lextreme forum have just removed this item and are running a shorter belt.  The only potential issue is that the crank pulley then only has about 30% wrap on it down from maybe 50%+.  I'm concerned about what might happen with water crossings and belt slippage - plus if I add a higher output alternator for a welder or want to add a supercharger, I might have issues with belts slipping.  I'm scouting for a pic of the idler to #1 see if I can locate one or #2 see if it's possible to fabricate something.

[cebby [OP]]

Got a little more done today.  Nice to be actually reassembling something.  Today it was the engine.  As you may recall I had stripped the TB, intake, and lower plenum so I could get at the starter to replace the contacts.

Put the coolant pipe back in place and was ready to tackle the injector/fuel rail seals.  Had to pull the fuel rail assembly - easy as pie - 4 nuts.

Complete, as it came off the engine...


Fuel rail assembly removed


Fuel rail assembly (upsidedown)


Injector in the rail - these pull straight out pretty easily.


Rail with the injector removed.


Here's an injector removed from the rail.  The grommet and insulator was pretty brittle.  The o-ring was still pliable, but a couple of injectors came out very easily.  There was a little leaking that predicated this teardown.


The injector with the old parts removed.  From the left is the o-ring, the insulator, and the grommet.


Here's a side by side with the new part - notice how in the last pic that the grommet was all deformed.


P/N's (sold by each): 

90301-07001 - O-Ring
23291-41010 - Insulator
90480-13005 - Grommet

[cebby [OP]]

I pulled the cam covers and cleaned them up nice in a parts washer (note to self, get parts washer for home shop).

They came out nice.  Down the road after I've had this thing in and running for a while, I'll consider painting the covers and maybe the intake.  Gotta head out to Lowes and find some rubber washers for the cam cover bolts.  The old ones were shot.

All cleaned up...


Nice clean looking valvetrain...


It was good getting the intake back on:


Also discovered that the fan oilpump had another piece I could take off, so fabbing a coverplate to use the stock fan pump housing looks like it will work out.

Here's the other piece of the pump.  I need to drive the pins out of the housing still.


Might not look like it, but there is ample clearance for a 1/4 coverplate with pulley attached.

[cebby [OP]]

Last but not least, I think I will likely be making a custom oilpan.  This one came with a front sump and might work out, but I want to keep it a little lower in the frame if possible.  Here's reference pics.  I'd like to make it hug the diff like the one on the 3.0

The black part is steel, but the silver portion is aluminum.


The back part of the upper pan is also the attachment point for the bellhousing.  I might have to rethink this...

[BUDDERS]

Hmm... have you given any thought into using a tundra 2uzfe oil pan?  It has the same #1 and #2 pan configuration as yours and has the same series block but the black part of the pan drops down on the side for diff clearance. Those tundras also hold 7 quarts of oil instead of the 6 in your engine.  I'll have to look at work tomorrow to see if I think it is possible for a tundra oil pan to clear your diff - I'm pretty sure it would bolt up to your engine.   

[cebby [OP]]

That would be mighty cool!  Thanks!  The more I can cobble together with parts and not have to fabricate, the easier it will be for others to duplicate. 

The Tundra IFS diff is on the opposite side of mine though.  On my 3.0 oilpan, it is symmetrical, so dif placement doesn't matter (drops down in the rear almost like a rear sump - or if the steel part is asymmetrical, that part would be easy to make custom).  Hoping the Tundra one is the same.  Any blown 4.7's you guys have had to swap out?  Got an extra pan laying around?   

Do you have a 1UZ and 2UZ to compare?  I can pull mine and draw up the mounting flange if that helps. 

Thanks!  This hurdle might not be much more than a speed bump.

[cebby [OP]]

Muzz over on Lextreme posted up his combo of the original with new alum grafted in.


Looks like a ton of work to me - I'd prefer to bolt together as much of this as possible for future swappers here in the US.  If it fits and I can get it cheap, I'll attempt the 2UZ route.  Even if I need to modify the steel part of the pan, it would be much easier.

Here's the Landcruiser version I found over on a tricked out Tundra over at Tundrasolutions (pics by jjc).

[cebby [OP]]

God do I love www.car-part.com.  Located a 2UZ oilpan about 40 minutes from my house today.

Turns out, I also love stupid people.  Some dimwit with an LX470 never changed the oil, so the engine seized.  Good for me, bad for them.  The boneyard swapped a rebuilt motor into the LX470 and had the seized one for parts.

I got some grea info out of all this and learned a few things.

#1 - the oilpan(s) and pickup tubes are interchangable between 1UZ and 2UZ (probably 3UZ also).  Props to Budders On Marlin's board for suggesting this.  There is an (*) though (nothing major more about this later)

Pulled the front sump to have a look at the top half and to take it with me.  Matched it up at the yard.


Front sump steel pan:


Here's the front sump aluminum "ring"


Here they are side by side.  The sludge filled one is the one off the LX470 (glad I have access to a parts washer).


Here's the (*).  There's some sort of sensor on the 1UZ pan that doesn't appear to be used on the 2UZ.  There's a knockout, but there aren't any mounting holes drilled/tapped.  No big deal, I can drill/tap it.  Not sure if I need the sensor or not.


#2 - the fan oil pump and idler assembly from the 1UZ and 2UZ are interchangable.   Again, probably interchangable with the 3UZ also.  This was better to spend $40 than to screw around trying to make my own or playing with shorter drive belts.  I had already bought the standard 1UZ drive belt, so might as well use it.



#3 - the boneyard will still likely have the 2UZ intake and TB available when I tire of the 250 horses and want to bolt on a TRD blower.


In case folks are wondering, the reason for the 2UZ sump is for clearance.  Notice all the room around the solid axle in the pics above.  Since I'm heading this direction anyway, might as well plan for it. My thoughts (pre-axle swap) is that the 2UUZ pan will allow me to drop the motor down lower and to easily clear my steering/steering stabilizer.  (I might be way off, but thats my theory anyway...)  The other reason is that I'm much more comfortable customizing the 2UZ steel lower pan, then trying to TIG that cast alum like Muzz did on his.  Hell, I could do a totally custom pan off of the 2UZ upper since I can get the flange pattern drawn up now and cut on the waterjet.

[BUDDERS]

Here's a suggestion for mocking up your oil pan configuration:  bolt in your trans first and then attach the oil pan configuration you think will work best to the bellhousing.  Try to get the upper surface of the aluminum pan level  with your frame railsIf you need to do any custom work, it will be a lot easier that hoisting that big engine in and out of that engine compartment.

Also, that sensor hole you were talking about is for the oil level sensor.  If you had a sc400 with this engine, and didn't have that sensor plugged in, it would just have a low oil light on the dash.  I don't beleive that having this sensor disconnected would cause any check engine light.

BTW, sweet find on that locked up Landcrusher motor 

[cebby [OP]]

OK, who knows what sealant I'm supposed to use to attach the aluminum ring and the oil pan to the engine?  What I pulled off appeared to be a silver sealant of some sort.  Anyone know for sure?  I'd prefer not to repeat my water pump escapades.

[BUDDERS]

You want to use the same black rtv you used on your water pump.  I know the stuff you scrapped off looks grey/silverish, but that stuff is not for sale - it only comes on cars from the factory.  The black FIPG that toyota sells over the counter is what we use at the dealership with no problems.   

[cebby [OP]]

Thanks Budders!  Good to have confirmation!  That's what I'll be using!!

[BUDDERS]

No problem Cebby 

[cebby [OP]]

Same rules about the amount of FIPG as with the waterpump?  I noticed what appeared to be alot of the silver stuff squished through on the inside area of the pan.

[BUDDERS]

Same rules about the amount of FIPG as with the waterpump?  I noticed what appeared to be alot of the silver stuff squished through on the inside area of the pan.

Yup, but see if this aluminum pan has any type of oil return passage - you don't want to get that clogged with fipg.

[cebby [OP]]

I was one with the parts washer tonight.  I cleaned both the front sump setup I'm not using and the LX470 version I picked up last week.

Remember when I said I was thankful for stupid people?  I was eating those words tonight when it took me at least an hour and a half to clean the sludge out of the oil pickup.  With the screen on the pickup end and the severe bends in the tube, threading something down there was a challenge.  At first I was using the 1UZ dipstick because I couldn't find a coat hanger.  That only reached so far, then I came across a coat hanger to get the rest of the way in there.  Mostly is was coming out in small hunks, the consistency of jello.  Then I got a few big pieces that looked like large leaches.  You know your oil is spent when you can pick it up in chunks...  :roll:

Here's the guts of my 1UZ before I pulled the pickup tube.




The oilpan sure looks alot cleaner now...


I had visions of getting more done, but I didn't head down until after midnight and the pickup tube was an unexpected headache.. 

I did have some added excitement to the evening.  Through the drudgery that was cleaning the pickup tube out, I thought I heard a bottle breaking.  So I shut off the parts washer and go check it out.  I sort of snuck up to one of the outside windows and looked out.  I saw some punk breaking into the back of the gas station across the alley from where I was.  I quickly called the police to tell them whats up.  I was on the phone with them for maybe 2 minutes max and they had 2 or 3 cars buzzing around the scene (and they caught the perps I later found out via a phone call from the police)  Turns out there were two perps.  I live in a nice town and want it to stay that way...


For anyone interested, I'm selling off the parts I'm not using in a thread here.

[BUDDERS]

You might have better luck posting those parts on the Lextreme sight Cebby.

[cebby [OP]]

Should I use the same black FIPG on the oil pickup tube where it meets the block?  Reason I ask is that the 1UZ tube had no gasket whatsoever and the 2UZ tube had Toyota's paper gasket.  FWIW, the 1UZ connection seemed to have gotten some crud on the surface between the two at some point in it's life.

[BUDDERS]

I would see If I could get a gasket for it.  You definately want enough oil getting into that motor.

[cebby [OP]]

This is from my two hour session Friday night.

In she goes for one of many test fits...


Love working shoulder to shoulder with the bigblock Vette...


Where it was meant to be...


Discovered a few things with the initial test fit:

• The stock oil filter mount is way too long and will interfere with frame rail.  I will need to make/buy a remote mount or something shorter.  I'll also investigate other UZ filter mounts - maybe there's an easy bolt on solution...
• The stock exhaust mainfolds stick straight out from the heads which means contact with the steering and the top mounts for the A-Arms.  I plan to do some more research on other stock manifolds, but a better solution that I'll likely take on is making a set of equal length runner block hugger headers.
• The rear sump oil pan allows the engine to be set into the engine bay nice and low (as in no body lift required).  I figure if this part gets solved, lifting the body higher later and adding a drivetrain lift will be child's play.
• The steel part of the rear sump oilpan will need to be modified slightly to clear the front diff and one of the IFS mounts.  The alterations will be pretty minor, so depending on the price of a new lower oilpan, the modified pan might be made toa  stock pan or a new one will be built from scratch.
• There's all sorts of space for the engine mounts.  That will likely be one of the easier parts of the swap.

Took some manuevering, but I got the engine back nice and close to the firewall.


Lots of room out front for radiator/fan.


Here's the stock filter mount without a filter - even a stubby filter won't make it unfortuantely.


This is before I had it back the whole way, but it still gets into the steering. 


What you can't see in the above pic is that the exhaust manifold is resting on top of the top of the A-Arm mount.  Fabricating headers would be a first for me.  I would make something similar to (the beautiful work) that "Mudman" from Lextreme did (I'll likely shorten the runners a bit before the collectors though):








And at the business end, there's just about an inch between the relay rod and the front of the rear sump oilpan - I forgot to see if the steering stabilizer would fit in it's stock position.  I'm sure this thing will be in and out quite a few more times...


The oilpan will only need to be "taken in" at the corners a little to clear the diff and the driver side IFS mount.  (This part has me wishing it was already SFA)  It will be a pretty easy alteration though...


Next up, removing the exhaust manifolds and another test fit as well as some measurements...

[BUDDERS]

Hey Cebby,
Nice to see you are working on your project again.  I'll have to take a look at the v8's that come into the dealership.  Maybe one of there oil filter mounts will work.  Also, have you considered JBA headers for the tundra?
Just a thought.  I'll have to see if I can find a pick of them.

[BUDDERS]

Here's a link to there site:
http://www.jbaheaders.com/index.asp

[cebby [OP]]

Here's a link to there site:
http://www.jbaheaders.com/index.asp

Those look promising - curious about the unequal length runners though...  I need to find a dealer to check the pricing.  Hell, I might be able to build a duplicate set pretty cheap.

[cebby [OP]]

Found some pricing - $600 a set roughly.  That's a bit steep. 

I dunno, $600 headers on a $850 motor seems a bit skewed...

I need to see what I can get the flanges cut out for and add up all the parts to see where it shakes out.