Author Topic: Need welding input/advice? (Read 9204 times)

Bigredwelder · « **on:** Apr 09, 2011, 07:08:38 AM »

Hello all!

I'm new to this board and just wanted offer up any welder/welding advice anyone needs. I noticed there aren't many threads in this section and I know there are a lot of people on here fabbing their own stuff! Anyway, I have been in the fabrication/welding field my whole life and am a certified welder, both AWS and to ASME section IX. I have a lot of experience in most all "fabrication" type welding processes such as GTAW, SMAW, GMAW, FCAW and SAW.

I definitely don't want to come off as a "Mr. know-it-all", but wanted to throw this out there in case anyone has any questions or needs any advice, I'm willing to help as best I can!

Edit: I can definitely weld, but my spelling leaves something to be desired!! "Advise!" Sheesh!

2manytoys · « **Reply #1 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 09:11:33 AM »

Great to know your there when anyone needs your advice. I'm sure forum members will be taking you up on your offer. Thanks

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #2 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 04:09:41 PM »

You and Jerry should talk, you could amuse each other for hours. Welcome to Marlin, there are alot of welders here. I have been in it for 21 years.

minicrawlin · « **Reply #3 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 04:52:50 PM »

I got on for ya.

How do you feel about stitch welds or "stack attack"? By that i mean your laying a bunch of individual beads on top of each other as you go along your contact patch. I was told it has the same amount of strength as a continous bead so long as your burning it in very hot and you never let the previous bead cool down so they fuse together. It just turns out so much prettier in my opinion and i have not seen any impurities come up as long as it's hot and clean. I've seen it done on comp buggy cages so i figured i'd see what you guys think or you in specific sense you tossed the offer up! And it's cool to see people offer this service man, especially a newb on the site! Thanks!

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #4 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 05:25:48 PM »

Quote from: 4runnerchevy on Apr 09, 2011, 04:09:41 PM

You and Jerry should talk, you could amuse each other for hours. Welcome to Marlin, there are alot of welders here. I have been in it for 21 years.

Is Jerry junya92toy? I was reading a couple of the other threads and he has offered up quite a bit of good sound advise from what I have seen.

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #5 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 05:40:53 PM »

Quote from: Bigredwelder on Apr 09, 2011, 05:25:48 PM

Is Jerry junya92toy? I was reading a couple of the other threads and he has offered up quite a bit of good sound advise from what I have seen.

yes jerry is Junya92toy pretty cool guy has seen some sweet stuff hes build awsome fab skills that guy IMO

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #6 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 05:43:52 PM »

Quote from: minicrawlin on Apr 09, 2011, 04:52:50 PM

I got on for ya.

How do you feel about stitch welds or "stack attack"? By that i mean your laying a bunch of individual beads on top of each other as you go along your contact patch. I was told it has the same amount of strength as a continous bead so long as your burning it in very hot and you never let the previous bead cool down so they fuse together. It just turns out so much prettier in my opinion and i have not seen any impurities come up as long as it's hot and clean. I've seen it done on comp buggy cages so i figured i'd see what you guys think or you in specific sense you tossed the offer up! And it's cool to see people offer this service man, especially a newb on the site! Thanks!

Well, honestly I'm not a very big fan of this method of welding. Here are my reasons why:

1) If not done perfectly, it runs a much higher risk of cracking (specifically crater cracking) than a simple stringer. Especially if you can see the fisheye from the previous tack due to the next one not having sufficient overlap.
2) It's only purpose, in my mind, is to give it that "Stacked Dime" look that the average person considers to be a good weld regardless of how well it is tied into the base metal.
3) Its slower
4) And believe it or not, I've seen people impart more heat into the joint by using this method than if they had used correct voltage, wire speed and welding technique. This becomes very critical when you are welding chromoly as the more heat you put into chromoly, the more you destroy its good characteristics

With that said, it does have its place, such as controlling burn through when a subsequent pass is going to be made over it.

Personally, I would much rather have a nicely laid stringer that I know is consistently tied into the base metal than the pretty staked dime look.

I know this statement won't make me very popular, but when I see this method of welding, it is usually an indicator to me that the person that performed it was either just going for a pretty look, or they haven't yet mastered running a good, smooth, well tied in weld that is also visually pleasing.

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #7 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 06:14:14 PM »

ok so im welding 1/4 inch flates in my frame and gussts i have a lincoln 125hd runs off 110v i run .035 flux cored wire i have the voltage maxed out on E and a wire speed of almost 2 i run one bead down the seam burning the 1/4 into the thinner frame metal i grind that down and run another pass over it them just smoothe that one over so it looks good ive had people tell me my welding skills are pretty good and am taking a class right now to get cirtified my question is am i getting ample penetration with my welder to be structurly sound in my frame

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #8 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 06:54:43 PM »

Quote from: yotaneck13 on Apr 09, 2011, 06:14:14 PM

ok so im welding 1/4 inch flates in my frame and gussts i have a lincoln 125hd runs off 110v i run .035 flux cored wire i have the voltage maxed out on E and a wire speed of almost 2 i run one bead down the seam burning the 1/4 into the thinner frame metal i grind that down and run another pass over it them just smoothe that one over so it looks good ive had people tell me my welding skills are pretty good and am taking a class right now to get cirtified my question is am i getting ample penetration with my welder to be structurly sound in my frame

Without seeing it, I can't give you a good answer. What I can say is, typically running flux core downhill is a definite no-no. It is very easy to trap flux under your weld because it can run ahead and under the molten weld puddle. So when you get done, on the surface it may look good, but you might have a bunch of flux trapped underneath with a relatively thin weld deposit on top. You might want to check one of those welds by grinding it out and seeing if it is full-thickness weld metal or if you have trapped flux.

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #9 on:** Apr 09, 2011, 08:56:52 PM »

hmmm....good to kno thanks

junya92toy · « **Reply #10 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 06:51:39 AM »

Ya the " stacked dime" look is stupid, craters like the moon, and cracking, I weld with c02 at home, hot and fast, no bead look at all, it flat and smooth. But when you weld right with a continues bead, and a certain gas, you will get ripples and have that effect which is fine. Just triggering it in, to get that is stupid.

jimbo74 · « **Reply #11 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 07:26:02 AM »

bigred, have you scoped out, and chimed in on the welding thread? tons of info there.... i like reading it for the debate and opinions, etc..... it's good stuff to know.... i have nothing to contribute to that thread though, just reading

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #12 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 07:51:32 AM »

Quote from: junya92toy on Apr 10, 2011, 06:51:39 AM

Ya the " stacked dime" look is stupid, craters like the moon, and cracking, I weld with c02 at home, hot and fast, no bead look at all, it flat and smooth. But when you weld right with a continues bead, and a certain gas, you will get ripples and have that effect which is fine. Just triggering it in, to get that is stupid.

Couldn't agree with ya more! I also run 100% CO2 at home. Its cheap and runs hotter. Has more splatter than 75/25 or 85/15 but all around, it works pretty good.

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #13 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 08:01:58 AM »

Quote from: jimbo74 on Apr 10, 2011, 07:26:02 AM

bigred, have you scoped out, and chimed in on the welding thread? tons of info there.... i like reading it for the debate and opinions, etc..... it's good stuff to know.... i have nothing to contribute to that thread though, just reading

Which one are you referring to specifically? I have read most all of them and felt like chiming in on most all of them, but I'm trying to watch how much I am posting right off the bat. Don't want to have people getting sick of seeing the "new guy" posting and bumping every thread!

jimbo74 · « **Reply #14 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 08:06:30 AM »

if you have good info, its all good.... haha, i have qutie a few posts on here... and a lot of people dislike me.... but its whatever.... at the end of the day, i try to be the best person i can be, and only worry about what my family thinks of me

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #15 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 08:14:35 AM »

I hear ya! I really like the overall friendliness on everyone I have talked to on here so far. I'm not really worried about being liked or not, but I do know it can be annoying having someone new come in and start "spouting off" even if they have good info. I have more posts on here in just a few days of being a member than I had in my first couple years at Pirate. I'm liking it here!

minicrawlin · « **Reply #16 on:** Apr 10, 2011, 03:50:44 PM »

Quote from: junya92toy on Apr 10, 2011, 06:51:39 AM

Ya the " stacked dime" look is stupid, craters like the moon, and cracking, I weld with c02 at home, hot and fast, no bead look at all, it flat and smooth. But when you weld right with a continues bead, and a certain gas, you will get ripples and have that effect which is fine. Just triggering it in, to get that is stupid.

it's "stupid" huh? lol Alright thanks for your input guys!

I still think it holds just as much fushion as a contious bead but thats my opinion i guess. We've cut them through, ground them out and couldn't find anything wrong with them. Again this is coming from guys that have been welding for 20+ years and are building rigs to compete in KOH and the like. I'm surprised by the answer really. I suppose for them it's a way to make it pretty and finish out the product, for me it's a way to cover up the fact that i'm still learning how to lay a real nice bead continuously!

ha ha Practice makes perfect though i'll just keep on keeping on!

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #17 on:** Apr 11, 2011, 10:28:45 AM »

Well the good thing about welding and fabrication is that there is always more than one way to skin a cat. If you prefer that method and are having good luck with it and want to continue, I say have at it. You just won't catch me doing it!

In reality, most people would be shocked at what even average welds will hold together and as long as you have put good thought into design and chassis layout, and you aren't continually stressing those joints to their limit.

I guess when I fabricate something (and give advice on something), I use and recommend methods I know have worked for me as well as others and also have a solid foundation based on my engineering and welding education.

minicrawlin · « **Reply #18 on:** Apr 11, 2011, 08:16:39 PM »

I respect that indeed Bigredwelder! Your advice is good, but i was bias to start with and didn't want to hear that lol I practice continous beads whenever i can so hopefully sooner then later i'll get, er, wicked good at em and wont need to stitch weld!

And thats very true, a weld is only as good as the design behind it sometimes!!

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #19 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 05:45:10 AM »

Well, I make it back up there every now and then. Next time I'm up that way maybe we can get together and I can give ya a couple pointers and share a couple

. What brought you to Rapid?

junya92toy · « **Reply #20 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 06:20:05 AM »

WHen you tig weld, yes you get a stacked dime look, because of how its done. But you want each bead to be overlapping the other one by at least 75% You need to cover the CRATER. That is where a crack can start, and it would be like a zipper.
As for wire feed welding, I dont know how many times Ive seen guys fit up projects, and when they tack it up, there are welds with the stacked dime look, that crack.

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #21 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 07:17:26 PM »

Good questions guys! Keep 'em coming!

junya92toy · « **Reply #22 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 07:40:35 PM »

Truck rack at work.......

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #23 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 07:51:40 PM »

I would be curious to know in this case, was the joint beveled before welding?

Edit: Looked closer and realized it was aluminum.

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #24 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 08:14:02 PM »

I think its just how that pic is displaying on my computer, but by the contour of that weld, it almost looks like aluminum.

junya92toy · « **Reply #25 on:** Apr 12, 2011, 08:17:36 PM »

It is aluminum, and i have no idea, its just a work truck we have. you can see the right end, has a crater. guess where the cracked started

Bigredwelder · « **Reply #26 on:** Apr 13, 2011, 05:44:28 AM »

What type of structural aluminum is that? Channel or Rec. Tube? I can't tell from the pic. If its channel and was only welded on the outside, I'm not surprised to see that crack. It doesn't look to me like the crack propagated from the crater. Looks more like a stress crack to me from the material either not being prepped properly or not fully welded (Full Pen).

junya92toy · « **Reply #27 on:** Apr 13, 2011, 05:59:43 AM »

It was tube, welded all the way around.

slim202020 · « **Reply #28 on:** Jun 12, 2011, 01:22:30 AM »

I feel pretty dumb asking but I gotta learn some how. I have a 98 runner and my wife got hit head on and I am buying it back for $1200 and I am goin to do a SAS and I just bought a high steer kit and workin on gather everything for it. I have been building houses and remodeling since I was 14 and built my first $400,000 home at 18 so I learn very fast and now I'm 30 and still doin it. I have played with a friends wire feed about four of years ago and not very successful. I bought a set of torches and a penncraft 230 dc amp welder 4 years ago and have never used it to this day. Is that a welder to do a SAS or do I need to invest in something else? I also need to find someone to teach me how to weld before I attempt my own rig. I have kids so I want to be very confident in my welding just like my building. Please help.

junya92toy · « **Reply #29 on:** Jun 12, 2011, 08:15:01 AM »

You need to learn to weld, and weld right before even considering this.

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