Need help with Welder

[Sparkplug]

https://www.weldsafe.com/images/P/TWEWS51.jpg

that part of your welder, is not reverse threads?

[-Matt-]

overheating steel with a standard MIG process thats funny. overheating 3/8s with a 110v setup even more funny. realistically, almost impossible.

[junya92toy]

overheating steel with a standard MIG process thats funny. overheating 3/8s with a 110v setup even more funny. realistically, almost impossible.

I was just saying how you should really  make bigger welds, and what the heat can do. Could be tig, gmaw, fcaw, stick, there is a lot more going on that just heat in the metal too. Its call distortion. But if you want to remain ignorant fine by me.

[-Matt-]

I guess I should get some certs and go to school and then maybe I can properly talk haha.

[4RunnerChevy]

I think the guy just wants to find a good welder not a good welder ! 

[yoshaleng]

I found a Lincoln 135 for 250.00 from a local muffler shop. Is it a good deal or can I do bettter?

[Duffil]

I guess I should get some certs and go to school and then maybe I can properly talk haha.

just buy one on ebay dude.

[Sparkplug]

If the lincoln isnt a hd model, then yes I would get it, 135 isnt alot, but with proper technique, it will be fine. As I have said before, the HD lincoln models have a reverse thread tip, not the contact tip, the main tip, dunno if the guys who spoke ever removed theirs?? But you should occasionally to clean and maintain your welder. Stuff does get back in there. Go with a normal model lincoln, a hobart, miller, esab or a USA made welder. Dont skimp, it should be a 500 dollar or more investment, trust me when I say it will be WELL worth it to buy a good one, you will be evry glad you did. I have made prob 400 bucks in 4 months just doin side jobs for ppl doin their exhausts. Thats them pulling it, all I do is weld it. Get a good one.


If you go to sears, they beat any price, show them that Tractor supply has hobart machines cheaper than them, they give you 10 percent off tsc price, which is the lowest around. You can get a hobart 187 for around 580 bucks, new, with a warranty, and it will be plenty. Can get the hobart 140 for around 450 with discount, which is a strong lil 110, my bud has one, and it does toyota trucks fine.

[Trunkz]

ok i should speak up,
reason for multiple passes on 3/8" welds according to my CWI classes:
multiple smaller welds stress relieve each other and help hamper embrittlement in the weld, each added pass brings the previous passes back up in temperature making for a more homogenous HAZ (heat affected zone) and a more sound weld
i would reccommend doing at least 5 passes as such:
00000
\000 /
\00/  -- standard 6mm open roon bend test in the industry btw aws code D1.1 and D1.13 plate and structural steel
  \0/
with a cover pass or 4 (reinforcement is important as well)
if you do a 3 inch weld in 1 or 2 passes several things will happen
you will probaby burn up your tip
you will go over your machines rated duty cycle possibly causing damage to your machine
your weld will probably not pass a bend test because the crystaline structure of the steel will not have formed properly
a 110v welder just does not have the output to weld a vgroove 3/8" weld in 1 or 2 passes, the more you deposit into the weld the more the puddle will cool and not penetrate, penetration is important! ill dig up some of my polished and acid etched samples if you need proof.


sorry major welding nerd ;P

and if you have the money go with the miller 211 mvp its a great welder! on 220 volts ive run consistant 6mm welds(1/4") with .035 wire with no problems

[4RunnerChevy]

ok i should speak up,
reason for multiple passes on 3/8" welds according to my CWI classes:
multiple smaller welds stress relieve each other and help hamper embrittlement in the weld, each added pass brings the previous passes back up in temperature making for a more homogenous HAZ (heat affected zone) and a more sound weld
i would reccommend doing at least 5 passes as such:
00000
\000 /
\00/  -- standard 6mm open roon bend test in the industry btw aws code D1.1 and D1.13 plate and structural steel
  \0/
with a cover pass or 4 (reinforcement is important as well)
if you do a 3 inch weld in 1 or 2 passes several things will happen
you will probaby burn up your tip
you will go over your machines rated duty cycle possibly causing damage to your machine
your weld will probably not pass a bend test because the crystaline structure of the steel will not have formed properly
a 110v welder just does not have the output to weld a vgroove 3/8" weld in 1 or 2 passes, the more you deposit into the weld the more the puddle will cool and not penetrate, penetration is important! ill dig up some of my polished and acid etched samples if you need proof.

sorry major welding nerd ;P

and if you have the money go with the miller 211 mvp its a great welder! on 220 volts ive run consistant 6mm welds(1/4") with .035 wire with no problems

I was just saying how you should really  make bigger welds, and what the heat can do. Could be tig, gmaw, fcaw, stick, there is a lot more going on that just heat in the metal too. Its call distortion. But if you want to remain ignorant fine by me.

You weld nerds should start your own thread on welding 3/8.  When you get out of school, finish your test plates, get 20 years under your belt, then come tell all these real world welders how to fab. 

[junya92toy]

Just go with the 220 if you can and remember everything Ive said, you'll be fine.

[Sparkplug]

I think its awesome we have true welders on this site. Everyone should have a desire to get better and do things right. People tend to get pissed on this site when they find out they were wrong, some people need to learn to take criticism constructively.


And on a side note, Trunkz, did u get your name from dragonballz? Hahaha I a nerd too.

[ninja turtle]

Just go with the 220 if you can and remember everything Ive said, you'll be fine.

ahh jerry why did you edit your post? that was too funny.

[junya92toy]

ahh jerry why did you edit your post? that was too funny.

Yes I did, its not worthing keeping the pissing match going. Some people just dont care to listen to someone who might know more.

[4RunnerChevy]

Yes I did, its not worthing keeping the pissing match going. Some people just dont care to listen to someone who might know more.

We can agree on two things, your last statement and going 220V.  110 will work for most truck stuff, but if you want everything then go 220.  If you buy the right machine you can spool anything.

[-Matt-]

You weld nerds should start your own thread on welding 3/8.  When you get out of school, finish your test plates, get 20 years under your belt, then come tell all these real world welders how to fab. 

i agree, more than half that stuff trunks stated isn't even true. I just get sick of hearing about all this book talk when people dont even have the knowledge to back it up, just ONE of the dead giveaways is "at least 5 passes on 3/8s plate"... 4 is more like it, 5 is understandable.. anything more is just not knowing what the hell your doing. and jerry im just givin you a hard time. no hard feelings man, ive seen some of your ornamental iron work. not sure if thats what you do for a living or not, but you have some really nice looking pieces. iv always wanted to get more into that type of work.

in my opinion if you dont wanna go all out on a miller/lincoln because you dont use it like its your profession, then you might wanna look into getting an everlast unit or longevity. both those companies have a vendor section forum on pirrate4x4, no personal experience yet, but i have heard nothing but good reviews from lots of people. they both have some of the best customer service and warranties in the industry and are vary well priced.

[junya92toy]

Well thanks matt, I do the wrought iron stuff as a hobby. For a living Ive done bridge welding, dam pieces, like lock doors, floating mooring pieces for the army corps of engineers, and stuff. Most of all that is x ray quality work.

I when I say 3/8s weld, Im talking about a fillet weld that will measure 3/8s of a inch.  I find, my root pass is around 1/4, then I put 2 over that it comes to around 5/16ths, then I put 3 over the 2 and it measures 3/8ths or just a touch bigger. Its always better to be like a 1/16th over, because they will reject anything less then what the print calls.

[yoshaleng]

Wow, I didn't think I would get this much info with thread. Thanks again. Im gonna go get me that Miller 211 so I have the option to go back and on the voltage needed.

[howyadoin]

I'm a badarse with a notcher...so I never see gaps that big .  In addition...where exactly in a rig build-up would you be using material that would end up with a gap that large?  I'm just giving you a little shiate, but I'm not sure your advise is even remotely related to the processes that the OP will be using the machine for...so not sure why it was posted in the first place.  I don't remember the OP asking about welding .750 material with a .375 gap anywhere...guess I'm just confused.  BTW, I'm sure you are FAR more knowledgable on this subject...I certainly don't do any "bridge work" whatsoever in my garage...but I do weld a ton of tube .

[quote author=junya92toy about a fillet weld that will measure 3/8s of a inch.  I find, my root pass is around 1/4, then I put 2 over that it comes to around 5/16ths, then I put 3 over the 2 and it measures 3/8ths or just a touch bigger. Its always better to be like a 1/16th over, because they will reject anything less then what the print calls.
[/quote]

[junya92toy]

I never said a gap I said a fillet weld. And how is this related to your truck, with all this talk about proper welds and bridge stuff. When you build bridge stuff and do stuff to your truck you put your life and other ppls lives in your hands. What if you do a crappy job welding your front hanger on and it breaks, you go head on with a car that has a family of 4 in there and kill them all?

[howyadoin]

I never said a gap I said a fillet weld. And how is this related to your truck, with all this talk about proper welds and bridge stuff. When you build bridge stuff and do stuff to your truck you put your life and other ppls lives in your hands. What if you do a crappy job welding your front hanger on and it breaks, you go head on with a car that has a family of 4 in there and kill them all?

If a weld fails and I'm going to kill someone...I'm hoping for a bus full of nuns.  Do it once and do it right!
My point is that for a typical application...like your example of welding a front hanger on...if you can't do proper prep and weld a 1/4" bracket on in one pass...you probably shouldn't be welding anything on a rig period.

[Sparkplug]

I welded a front hanger up just today, took multiple passes, no way could it have been done in 1 pass, would have been WAY to hot. Yes almost anyone can make a weld thats gonna stick, and it PROBABLY wont fail. That does not mean it is the right way to do the job. The Op asked for info on a welder, which was given, along with info on how to use said welder correctly, with links to good info. Thats a bonus


And to he OP, good choice on a miller, you will love it

[-Matt-]

can you show us pictures of this multiple pass hanger, im just curious what you have going on there.

[Sparkplug]

shitty pic, but 3 passes on that one, root pass, then 1 on each side. Setting 5 on my hobart 210, prb around 150 amps I imagine? Yeah some people do it in 1, fill the whole gap with 1 weld, I used to, till I was schooled, and read for myself what it does to the metal. This was just done today, so some of welds are dirty. It took me prob 20 min to weld the hangers to the main bar, multiple passes, cleaning, and moving around to let metal cool.

thats a piece of 2x2 1/4 inch welded to 3.5 tube 3/8th wall, so had gap at curve, thats why i made it wide.

[Dr Phat]

I got my brand new Miller 180 with Auto Set and cart for under $850 on eBay. Couldnt speak more highly of it.

[Trunkz]

i agree, more than half that stuff trunks stated isn't even true. I just get sick of hearing about all this book talk when people dont even have the knowledge to back it up, just ONE of the dead giveaways is "at least 5 passes on 3/8s plate"... 4 is more like it, 5 is understandable.. anything more is just not knowing what the hell your doing. and jerry im just givin you a hard time. no hard feelings man, ive seen some of your ornamental iron work. not sure if thats what you do for a living or not, but you have some really nice looking pieces. iv always wanted to get more into that type of work.

in my opinion if you dont wanna go all out on a miller/lincoln because you dont use it like its your profession, then you might wanna look into getting an everlast unit or longevity. both those companies have a vendor section forum on pirrate4x4, no personal experience yet, but i have heard nothing but good reviews from lots of people. they both have some of the best customer service and warranties in the industry and are vary well priced.

ok so tell me where i am telling falsehoods in my post. please! if your gonna call me a lier then i demand to be proven wrong.

as far as book learning im taking the classes to know the science behind what i do for a living. im certified in all positions mig, stick and tig and have several years of welding experience to go along with it.

[redrocket93]

Yes im serious, im not talkin about ur copper colored tip, im talking about the main tip. Yes im sorry, they do BURN UP, read reviews, I have seen 8 of tyhe hd machines on shelves for the exact same problem, the ti was melted. And junya is absolutely correct. You are not supposed to weld a 3/8 weld in one pass. I thought so at first too, till he schooled me and gave me good knowledge and qwebsites. The man welds for a living, he knows what he is talking about, Heating metal super hot is not good for it.


edit. ALSO. HF copper colored tips suck balls bad IMO, they jam, and I ran my cleaner thru it, and it egged the hole so bad from them being cheap. I get airgas ones now.

Still wrong. The main tip is standard thread. I was changing tip sizes yesterday and pulled the main tip out to take a look. Sure enough, standard threads. As far as reviews of the welder go. I tend to take those with a grain of salt. There is a lot of mis-information out there, as evidenced in this thread. Here is a picture for proof. Not trying to start a pissing match or ruffle any feathers, just correcting an incorrect statement.

[-Matt-]

ok i should speak up,
reason for multiple passes on 3/8" welds according to my CWI classes:
multiple smaller welds stress relieve each other and help hamper embrittlement in the weld, each added pass brings the previous passes back up in temperature making for a more homogenous HAZ (heat affected zone) and a more sound weld
i would reccommend doing at least 5 passes as such:
00000
\000 /
\00/  -- standard 6mm open roon bend test in the industry btw aws code D1.1 and D1.13 plate and structural steel
  \0/
with a cover pass or 4 (reinforcement is important as well)
if you do a 3 inch weld in 1 or 2 passes several things will happen
you will probaby burn up your tip
you will go over your machines rated duty cycle possibly causing damage to your machine
your weld will probably not pass a bend test because the crystaline structure of the steel will not have formed properly
a 110v welder just does not have the output to weld a vgroove 3/8" weld in 1 or 2 passes, the more you deposit into the weld the more the puddle will cool and not penetrate, penetration is important! ill dig up some of my polished and acid etched samples if you need proof.


sorry major welding nerd ;P

and if you have the money go with the miller 211 mvp its a great welder! on 220 volts ive run consistant 6mm welds(1/4") with .035 wire with no problems

well fist off if you have ever done lots of bend test you'll know that its almost impossible to crystallize steel using a standard mig process, you would realllly have to do something wrong, if anything its gonna be something along the lines of incomplete pen, contamination, or porosity.

second off i don't know where your getting a 6mm open root bend test from? i would love to see someone successfully do that properly with mig, not saying it cant be done but that's not right. unless im reading your info wrong. and when you say "5 passes as such", then do a picture that has 11 passes! i dont get it

third off most every machine that's remotely modern has an auto shut off when duty cycle is exceeded, so you cant damage the machine.

fourth it would be nearly impossible to burn up a tip/nozzle/or gun using mig. if you convert your machine to spray (not pulse spray but just spray) it happens all the time. or if your tig welding without the right size torch or style of torch, etc then yes it happens. but for you to do damage to what your stating i would have to hook up a 110v gun to a 220 machine and weld continuously with high amps.

fifth I wouldn't attempt a proper v-grove weld in 1 of 2 passes on 3/8s plate with a 110 welder but i sure as hell can do it properly with 4 passes. i dont know where some people get the idea that a 110v couldnt properly do a beveled full pen weld. dont get me wrong though, im not talking about industrial welding of 1/2 thick material, or grove welding all day. using a 110 would be a joke.

[Sparkplug]

Still wrong. The main tip is standard thread. I was changing tip sizes yesterday and pulled the main tip out to take a look. Sure enough, standard threads. As far as reviews of the welder go. I tend to take those with a grain of salt. There is a lot of mis-information out there, as evidenced in this thread. Here is a picture for proof. Not trying to start a pissing match or ruffle any feathers, just correcting an incorrect statement.

Then you have the only hd model lincoln I have ever seen with a normal tip. Possibly because all hd models I have seen were 110v, is yours a 220 machine? You must have read reviews, prob why you take them with a grain of salt. No pissing match wanted, like I said Ive seen numberous HD lincolns fail. Matter of fact, I can buy a 140 right now for 50 bucks, with a burnt up tip. I would for parts, but I got a hobart. But yes that tip you posted is normal, maybe they fixed the issue? Dunno

Most machines have auto shut off, but if you have it kick on, thats like your temp gauge being in red, already too late, it got hot already. Yes it wont ruin it, but it does take life away.

For that matter GMAW, not MIG, you dont burn up tips? Ive been through prob 20 lbs of wire with my 220, and prob 5 tips? Not the main tip although I cleaned it yesterday and noticed a gouge from heat. Maybe not as possible on a 110, but you are burning metal, its not too hard to burn up the tip.

110v is plenty, if you prep properly, and do passes correctly. Many trucks have been built that way.

[redrocket93]

Then you have the only hd model lincoln I have ever seen with a normal tip. Possibly because all hd models I have seen were 110v, is yours a 220 machine? You must have read reviews, prob why you take them with a grain of salt. No pissing match wanted, like I said Ive seen numberous HD lincolns fail. Matter of fact, I can buy a 140 right now for 50 bucks, with a burnt up tip. I would for parts, but I got a hobart. But yes that tip you posted is normal, maybe they fixed the issue? Dunno

Most machines have auto shut off, but if you have it kick on, thats like your temp gauge being in red, already too late, it got hot already. Yes it wont ruin it, but it does take life away.

For that matter GMAW, not MIG, you dont burn up tips? Ive been through prob 20 lbs of wire with my 220, and prob 5 tips? Not the main tip although I cleaned it yesterday and noticed a gouge from heat. Maybe not as possible on a 110, but you are burning metal, its not too hard to burn up the tip.

110v is plenty, if you prep properly, and do passes correctly. Many trucks have been built that way.

Mine is the 220v. All the reviews I read on the Home Depot site were positive about the HD model welders (110v and 220v). I was referring to the statement you wrote about the negative reviews. Maybe the older style Lincoln welders are what you are thinking of.