Topic: 22re running rich/not hitting rev limiter

[emsvitil]

When my exhaust manifold was warped, it ran rich because air was getting into the exhaust and the O2 sensor thought I was running lean......

[te51levin]

Silly question, but is there any chance your catalytic converter is plugged, or exhaust system smashed flat enough to cause an obstruction?  There are ways to check for excessive backpressure without too much effort, such as using an infrared thermometer.  If it's way hotter before the cat than after, the cat is probably plugged.

Anything silly in the intake tract?  I've seen nests built in airboxes before.  Not common, but something to check.

Any chance there are air pockets in coolant?

Vacuum lines all plugged in, especially at the fuel pressure regulator?

Fuel pressure measures within spec?

[Jud]

Silly question, but is there any chance your catalytic converter is plugged, or exhaust system smashed flat enough to cause an obstruction?  There are ways to check for excessive backpressure without too much effort, such as using an infrared thermometer.  If it's way hotter before the cat than after, the cat is probably plugged.

Anything silly in the intake tract?  I've seen nests built in airboxes before.  Not common, but something to check.

Any chance there are air pockets in coolant?

Vacuum lines all plugged in, especially at the fuel pressure regulator?

Fuel pressure measures within spec?

Everything but fuel pressure has been checked

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Silly question, but is there any chance your catalytic converter is plugged, or exhaust system smashed flat enough to cause an obstruction?  There are ways to check for excessive backpressure without too much effort, such as using an infrared thermometer.  If it's way hotter before the cat than after, the cat is probably plugged.

Anything silly in the intake tract?  I've seen nests built in airboxes before.  Not common, but something to check.

Any chance there are air pockets in coolant?

Vacuum lines all plugged in, especially at the fuel pressure regulator?

Fuel pressure measures within spec?

Between my 2 trucks, both of them have had 5 different exhausts with 5 different cats, same thing every time

Has an aftermarket K&N intake so no.

No air pockets, im POSITIVE on that.

Vacuum lines are all in.

Everything but fuel pressure has been checked

What he said is pretty much the last thing i have to check.

[te51levin]

Might be worth checking fuel pressure just to rule it out.

Are you able to drive the thing?  I'm curious whether it behaves the same under load.

[lilbuddy [OP]]

I doubt, infact, i HIGHLY doubt the fuel pressure is too low. Ill be very surprised if in both rigs the pumps werent pushing enough fuel.

Yeah it drives great. Has pretty good power for having beadlocks/40s/and a heavy ass body.

Compression is 142-152 on it.

Doesnt hit limiter driving it either.

[TacoRunner]

 

Is it time to take it to someone?

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Is it time to take it to someone?

I have. Jim Putney of Putneys Automotive and he is the man when it comes to Toyota Motors. He had no idea. Never heard of that before.

Im going to go back in on Monday and talk to his main mechanic who knows more of the mechanical stuff

[TacoRunner]

Major suck but

[te51levin]

I missed this the first time:

Today i put in a new knock sensor. First unplugged it and just pinned it and it hit 6k once. Put in the new one and reset the computer and it only hits 5k. Timing does not jump around at all, no missing...nothing weird. TPS is in good working condition. Timing is dead on.

That knock sensor comment is VERY interesting.

Do you hear any unusual noises from the engine?  Sometimes mechanical noise can fool the knock sensor.

Did you put in a brand new OEM Toyota knock sensor?  Brand new aftermarket?  Used?  Correct for the application?  Knock sensors are not universal, and aftermarket parts are not universally correct, nor of universally adequate quality.  OEM vs. aftermarket is an entirely different argument, and I won't drag it out again here, but I do want to verify what you've done.

I doubt, infact, i HIGHLY doubt the fuel pressure is too low. Ill be very surprised if in both rigs the pumps werent pushing enough fuel.

I was thinking more along the lines of excess fuel pressure due to a failed regulator.

Doesnt hit limiter driving it either.

That's very interesting.

I understand that the last truck that this combo was in also had a manual transmission, but is the ECU correct for a manual transmission vehicle?  It will/should be marked either MTM or ATM on the sticker.

[te51levin]

Timing is dead on.

What happens to ignition timing as the engine approaches 4800 RPM?

Toyota's rev limiters are usually a fuel cut.  They turn the injectors off outright until the RPM returns to an acceptable level.  That's why you get the bip-bip-bip sound everyone else's rev limiter makes.  What you are hearing is very different.  I have a crisp $5 bill that says your timing is being heavily retarded because the computer's going into limp mode due to a failed knock sensor or a failure in the knock sensor circuit.

How does the knock sensor connector look?  How about the knock sensor circuit - do you have correct continuity between the connector and the ECU?

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Do you hear any unusual noises from the engine?  Sometimes mechanical noise can fool the knock sensor

No unusual noises.

Did you put in a brand new OEM Toyota knock sensor?  Brand new aftermarket?  Used?  Correct for the application?  Knock sensors are not universal, and aftermarket parts are not universally correct, nor of universally adequate quality.  OEM vs. aftermarket is an entirely different argument, and I won't drag it out again here, but I do want to verify what you've done.

Used out of a 90 pickup knock sensor. Connector looked good. I can get the original knock sensor off the 4runner that it is in.

No idea on the continuity between connector and ECU.

You really have to remember that it was in two different rigs and its hard to believe that the continuity on both could be messed up.

I was thinking more along the lines of excess fuel pressure due to a failed regulator.

Ill check it when I get a fuel pressur tester like I have had planned

I understand that the last truck that this combo was in also had a manual transmission, but is the ECU correct for a manual transmission vehicle?  It will/should be marked either MTM or ATM on the sticker.

The last truck had a Manual computer. This one is using the auto computer.

When I did the swap the motor would not run or start at all using the manual engine harness with the manual computer. Its using the Auto Harness with the Auto Computer.

What happens to ignition timing as the engine approaches 4800 RPM?

At idl its 5* short circuited. 12* not. When you give it gas it advances and when you keep givign it gas it stays advanced even when its at 5k.

I did notice once that when I pinned it and it hit 5k, it went all the way back to before zero, and then it went back up to advanced like normal but it stayed at 5k.

Also when I pin it and watch the tach, it goes up to 5500 and stays there for a quick second and then it goes right back to 4900-5000

Toyota's rev limiters are usually a fuel cut.  They turn the injectors off outright until the RPM returns to an acceptable level.  That's why you get the bip-bip-bip sound everyone else's rev limiter makes.  What you are hearing is very different.  I have a crisp $5 bill that says your timing is being heavily retarded because the computer's going into limp mode due to a failed knock sensor or a failure in the knock sensor circuit.

That has been what I kinda thought once seomeone said something on pirate about the knock sensor but since it didnt change with the known good one I dont know what the deal is.

You work at toyota, what are the years that are good that I could use one from?

[te51levin]

Used out of a 90 pickup knock sensor.

I was afraid of that.

Connector looked good. I can get the original knock sensor off the 4runner that it is in.

iIt wouldn't hurt to have a backup.

No idea on the continuity between connector and ECU.

That is easy and worthwhile to check.

You really have to remember that it was in two different rigs and its hard to believe that the continuity on both could be messed up.

Not to me it isn't.  Knock sensor wires are pretty famous for failing, particularly on 3VZ-Es, though not exclusively.

The last truck had a Manual computer. This one is using the auto computer.

  You don't say!

When I did the swap the motor would not run or start at all using the manual engine harness with the manual computer. Its using the Auto Harness with the Auto Computer.

So...that begs the question: does anyone have any empirical evidence that the automatic ECU does not have a 5000 RPM rev limit?

I did notice once that when I pinned it and it hit 5k, it went all the way back to before zero, and then it went back up to advanced like normal but it stayed at 5k.

Which again suggests a problem with the knock sensor and/or knock sensor circuit.

You work at toyota, what are the years that are good that I could use one from?

No no, I work at a Toyota dealership, selling parts.  I tried offering parts at a very healthy discount to Marlin members, and it went over like a fart at a funeral.  Everybody wanted free interchange information so that they could go to Kragen or the junkyard and buy somebody else's crap.  I don't earn money on parts that I don't sell, and I won't do that anymore.  I will happily share whatever knowledge I have, but work stays at work.

[lilbuddy [OP]]

So...that begs the question: does anyone have any empirical evidence that the automatic ECU does not have a 5000 RPM rev limit?

It did it in the other truck with a MANUAL computer, so no, its not the Auto computer doing it

[te51levin]

It did it in the other truck with a MANUAL computer, so no, its not the Auto computer doing it

OK, alright, chill out.  I know you are tired of repeating yourself, but you have a metric shitton of different combinations discussed here and they are not all clearly identified or well organized.  So it's worth asking the dumb questions to make damned good and sure we have the answers.

I've given you all the advice I can.  Whether you follow it or not is up to you.  It was free, and a lot more than I owed you, so maybe you can find someone else to shout at.  Cool?

[bigarms23]

maybe its a sign that you need to drop in a supercharged 4.3 or 3.4 to accomodate for the heavy body and the 40s especially when you go to 1tons

[lilbuddy [OP]]

OK, alright, chill out.  I know you are tired of repeating yourself, but you have a metric shitton of different combinations discussed here and they are not all clearly identified or well organized.  So it's worth asking the dumb questions to make damned good and sure we have the answers.

I've given you all the advice I can.  Whether you follow it or not is up to you.  It was free, and a lot more than I owed you, so maybe you can find someone else to shout at.  Cool?

No one reads...its ridiculous.

Thanks for your help.

[madhunt]

just throwing this out there weak valve springs?? looks like you tried everything eles

[lilbuddy [OP]]

just throwing this out there weak valve springs?? looks like you tried everything eles

Also what I was thinking also.

Im getting a new motor. Im over it

[bigarms23]

you stickingwith another 22re or swapping in a motor with more power

[79coyotefrg]

Chris,  what kind of exhaust manifold and exit tubing are you running??
Is it the stock manifold that quickly (within 5 inches) goes from two tubes to one tube??   or does the twin tubes run down to just before the cat??

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Chris,  what kind of exhaust manifold and exit tubing are you running??
Is it the stock manifold that quickly (within 5 inches) goes from two tubes to one tube??   or does the twin tubes run down to just before the cat??

Ive had both kinds and also a header and it hasnt made a difference.

[superyota]

hey chris, if you get a chance, check and make sure the egr valve isn't stuck open.

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Pretty funny no one at all was able to help.

Like I thought towards the end, swapping the motor did it. Hits rev limiter at 6200 with no problems and runs way better. Valve springs in the old one must have been shot.

[yotaneck13]

funny thing put my new motor in same one that didnt hit jus reved out like yours but i rebuilt it and not it rev limiters at between 6200 and 6300

[Jud]

The new motor blew up today...

[kneedownnate]

What   

[lilbuddy [OP]]

The new motor blew up today...

yep

[bigarms23]

whats the plan now

[lilbuddy [OP]]

whats the plan now

Not worry about it.