Topic: Front driveshaft!!!! You gotta be kidding me!!!

[dweinberg01]

Im gonna vent for a minute... bear with me please.  

About a year ago, I had a driveshaft shop build me a front driveshaft for my 4runner. Told them that it was a 6in lift with leafsprings and gave them the needed length (27" f2f) I explained that I needed the most extension I could get because of my suspension setup and they said okay.  Anyway, I got the driveshaft and installed it. I haven't really pushed the suspension to it's limits yet because I have been trying to fix other stuff.

I took my runner to a shop recently and he put it up on a lift to work on it. He watched as my front suspension drooped fully and.....my front driveshaft seperated.  

My driveshaft was set at 4" of compression which, after talking to several driveshaft companies, I learned is too much.  It has a CV joint also which I understand takes up space that could be used as extension.  I was told that my best option would be to go to dual t-cases and get new front (longer) and rear (shorter) driveshafts. (I can afford that after I win the lottery tomorrow)

Are there any options that aren't as expensive that can get me up and moving for a while without having my driveshaft seperate everytime I try to climb a curb(j/k) and won't cost me my first born child's college tuition (junior college).



Will clearancing the CV joint like this http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/ help at all.
Truck specs: 95 4runner, 85 SFA, Automatic trans and t-case 6in lift and 36" TSL's
Thank you for listening to my rant and also for your help.

[MiniSimp]

Square will cost you about $30 and you get 18" of travel out of it.

[pumkin toy]

get a long slip front driveline kit.  that will fix all your problems

http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=52&products_id=976

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Square will cost you about $30 and you get 18" of travel out of it.

Do you know where I can find a how to build link? Prolly somwhere on this site im sure, but thanks for the idea. I might go that route.

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

get a long slip front driveline kit.  that will fix all your problems

http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=52&products_id=976

I tried that originally, but the driveshaft shop said that I didn't have enough room to make that work. CRAP!!!!

[IronClad]

get a long slip front driveline kit.  that will fix all your problems

http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=52&products_id=976

those things are junk. if yer gonna go long spline atleast use tractor spline

[MiniSimp]

Actually I do. 
http://www.ehow.com/how_4475628_build-square-driveshaft.html

Pretty sure it's on the member tech here somewhere.

[OOPS]

Will clearancing the CV joint like this http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/ help at all.

No, that will just give you more angle.

those things are junk. if yer gonna go long spline atleast use tractor spline

Do tell, as far as a tractor slip I found them to be to sloppy. I ran a 14" slip similar to the one pictured with out one problem and the slip splines stayed tight the whole time. So why are they "junk"?

[IronClad]

No, that will just give you more angle.
Do tell, as far as a tractor slip I found them to be to sloppy. I ran a 14" slip similar to the one pictured with out one problem and the slip splines stayed tight the whole time. So why are they "junk"?

all the ones ive seen have bent and fairly easy at that

[86bobbedtoy]

built my last square f/driveline with 28$ and 1 hour of labor
1/4" cant conplain
If I break it or what not I dont care, Ill bould another end

[howyadoin]

Cut your existing shaft and sleeve it with some chromo at the desired length.  Rosette weld and end weld the sleeve.  Hit trail.

I've done it MANY times, here are a couple pics of what I'm talking about...I usually use .120 wall chromo personally.

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Cut your existing shaft and sleeve it with some chromo at the desired length.  Rosette weld and end weld the sleeve.  Hit trail.

I've done it MANY times, here are a couple pics of what I'm talking about...I usually use .120 wall chromo personally.

Okay, Im kinda new to this, but does that extend at all or is it just cut to length and it won't come apart. Thanks

[pumkin toy]

it looks like that method just extends the tube so you have less copmression and more extension so you are less likely to have it fall apart.  The fact of the matter is that toyota front drivelines just do not have enough slip built into them to handle a good flexy suspension.  You need to have longer splines. Thats the only thing that will fix your problem. So your options are basically to build a square driveshaft or use a long spline kit.  There are plenty of write-ups on this forum that will tell you how to build a square shaft, just use the search function.  Pro's of a square shaft are: it will never come apart again, fairly cheap to build. Cons of square shaft: cannot be balanced, square tube will never fit as tightly together as splines do so it will have some slop, If you try to drive it in 4 wheel drive during anything but crawling it will bang around and shake pretty bad.   Long spline kit is the best way to go if you can afford it.  Pro's: plenty of slip and will never come apart, splines fit nicely together so you dont get the loose banging and wobbling effect, it can also be balanced fairly well. Con's: it cost 200 bucks shipped to your door, then you still have to pay a driveshaft shop to cut your old one apart and weld your CV joint onto the new long spline shaft.

You also said that you dont have enough room to use a long slip shaft. thats kinda weird because i have had one on both my rigs without dual cases. Also marlin sells an 8" slip unit that should fit in the space you have.  And i think all-pro sells a 10" unit, so you do have some choices if space is limited.

[YotaChris]

I opt you go square! It's cheap and very strong! Also if your running duals you can build it with around 18" of travel like Mini said and if something happens to your rear driveshaft, it will extend long enough to be used as a rear driveshaft and still have pleanty of travel. But even if you don't decide to go square, I would build one just for a spare because like I said it can be used as a front or rear!! 

[79coyotefrg]

I tried that originally, but the driveshaft shop said that I didn't have enough room to make that work. CRAP!!!!

you need to postup what "driveshaft shop" this was because they are IDIOTS, did they build the tube with exhaust pipe??

the cv has absolutely NOTHING to do with the slip distance of the driveshaft but yes it MUST (the cv) be clearanced as the link abaove to allow enough droop so it doesnt bind when your suspension droops

[79coyotefrg]

all the ones ive seen have bent and fairly easy at that

i'd be curious as to where they came from because  thats the same as factory aside from the length  and the inner part of the spline is solid shaft


a lot better than some square shaft that you can throw a cat between its so sloppy you can hear it coming 2 miles down the trail

[IronClad]

i'd be curious as to where they came from because  thats the same as factory aside from the length  and the inner part of the spline is solid shaft


a lot better than some square shaft that you can throw a cat between its so sloppy you can hear it coming 2 miles down the trail

one was trail gear and one was marlin if i remember right.. and ive bent a stock slip before.  would much rather run a square or some tractor spline, and you can build a square to be tight.

[emsvitil]

PUT IFS on it.   



The differential doesn't move so you won't have any problems.



 

[hilux-1983]

it looks like that method just extends the tube so you have less copmression and more extension so you are less likely to have it fall apart.  The fact of the matter is that toyota front drivelines just do not have enough slip built into them to handle a good flexy suspension.  You need to have longer splines. Thats the only thing that will fix your problem. So your options are basically to build a square driveshaft or use a long spline kit.  There are plenty of write-ups on this forum that will tell you how to build a square shaft, just use the search function.  Pro's of a square shaft are: it will never come apart again, fairly cheap to build. Cons of square shaft: cannot be balanced, square tube will never fit as tightly together as splines do so it will have some slop, If you try to drive it in 4 wheel drive during anything but crawling it will bang around and shake pretty bad.   Long spline kit is the best way to go if you can afford it.  Pro's: plenty of slip and will never come apart, splines fit nicely together so you dont get the loose banging and wobbling effect, it can also be balanced fairly well. Con's: it cost 200 bucks shipped to your door, then you still have to pay a driveshaft shop to cut your old one apart and weld your CV joint onto the new long spline shaft.

You also said that you dont have enough room to use a long slip shaft. thats kinda weird because i have had one on both my rigs without dual cases. Also marlin sells an 8" slip unit that should fit in the space you have.  And i think all-pro sells a 10" unit, so you do have some choices if space is limited.

Got any really clear pics of your front shaft with it compressed and drooped? Specs of the actual angles and length too? I installed All Pro 5" and I have the same problem as dweinberg01. That would help a lot. Thanks a bunch guy!!!!

[pumkin toy]

Got any really clear pics of your front shaft with it compressed and drooped? Specs of the actual angles and length too? I installed All Pro 5" and I have the same problem as dweinberg01. That would help a lot. Thanks a bunch guy!!!!

i can try to get some pics tomorrow.  you are having the same problem?  you mean yours is coming apart too?  thats probly because you only have a 5" slip. 5" is not much more than stock.  mine is a 12" slip. dont ever have to worry about it coming apart

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

Got any really clear pics of your front shaft with it compressed and drooped? Specs of the actual angles and length too? I installed All Pro 5" and I have the same problem as dweinberg01. That would help a lot. Thanks a bunch guy!!!!

I know it is 23" flange to flange when fully compressed. It has 4 inches of compression set on it. I will get some pics of it compressed and "drooped" for you when I get the truck back from the shop. I will throw a measuring tape on it also so you can see where you are at.


So a a buddy gave me an old front driveshaft from his 93 runner and here is where I sit.  I cut the driveshaft according to MiniSinmp's awesome tutorial (thanks Mini).  The Cv is 5" long and the Cardan side is 7".  I think that 5" of compression stroke is good, leaving me 10" of extension. A total of 27" when bolted up.  I use the number 27" because that is the distance from my pinion flange to the t-case flange at ride height and right know I have 4" of compression.

Do I cut the tubing, both to 15" or is my measurement thinking way off. BTW: I SUCK at geometry so all help is appreciated.

[Yoat Goat]

My front D-shaft is 24" at ride heigth, I was gonna use a CV but was told it was bad. The CV was gonna work fine if it was broken, I think your driveshaft place sucks...

My 2 cents.

[hilux-1983]

My front D-shaft is 24" at ride heigth, I was gonna use a CV but was told it was bad. The CV was gonna work fine if it was broken, I think your driveshaft place sucks...

My 2 cents.

And your point is? What driveline place? your quote " the cv was gonna work fine if it WAS broken" "my front d-shaft is 24" at ride height" what does that mean? Your not very clear in your writing on what your trying to get across to us. We are trying to get some answers, not someone to throw a few words of discouragement into the mess that we are already trying to fix. Give us a rundown of your whole suspension system so that we can maybe get an understanding of what you really meant to say, Pics would be nice too. Try again!! Thanks for your input though.......

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

TTT. Still trying to figure out if my thinking on the tube length is right. Thanks

[dweinberg01 [OP]]

So a a buddy gave me an old front driveshaft from his 93 runner and here is where I sit.  I cut the driveshaft according to MiniSinmp's awesome tutorial (thanks Mini).  The Cv is 5" long and the Cardan side is 7".  I think that 5" of compression stroke is good, leaving me 10" of extension. A total of 27" when bolted up.  I use the number 27" because that is the distance from my pinion flange to the t-case flange at ride height and right know I have 4" of compression.

Do I cut the tubing, both to 15" or is my measurement thinking way off. BTW: I SUCK at geometry so all help is appreciated.

Help!! Anybody?

[MiniSimp]

This may help when it comes to length, I cut both tubes (excluding the joints) the same length

[hammer]

sqaure tube.
Ive had mine for years. It has served me well
cheap and easy

[junya92toy]

That front driveshaft write up is way too much work. You just need 2.5 trailer hitch stock and 2x2x3/16 tube and only need to cut the male end of the stock drive shaft, only grinding required is to bevel the edges for welding.

[hilux-1983]

That front driveshaft write up is way too much work. You just need 2.5 trailer hitch stock and 2x2x3/16 tube and only need to cut the male end of the stock drive shaft, only grinding required is to bevel the edges for welding.

sqaure tube.
Ive had mine for years. It has served me well
cheap and easy

C'mon folks, lets see your pics.......

[GotMyYotaBack]

I used the long travel spline from TG (used dont hate) and have laid on it with out ever bending mine. These trucks dont need that much slip, remember the axle flexs left and right, the Pinion really never goes full drop unless you are catching air. I have seen plenty of trucks (well built) go up on a lift and drop a shaft. Its like you said, youve been using it, it never seporated before. If want a super cheap fix, throw a limit strap in the center of the axle, you will still get all the flex you have now, and some piece of mind.

 my  let the flaming begin