Author Topic: Rotating knuckles for better d-shaft angle (Read 14026 times)

86toyota · « **on:** Dec 02, 2009, 07:03:51 PM »

Startin a new thread because im starting tomorrow on rotateing my knuckle 5-10 degrees for a better drive shaft angle. Ill post lots of pics tomorrow, got the axle out and torn apart tonight.

GotMyYotaBack · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 07:49:52 PM »

Whats your set up? Springs/Perches/Hangers? Are you leaving Caster where it is? I want to do this too, not so much for d-line angle but for caster, as I am RUF, and backwards to get axle as far forward as possible, so my Caster Angle is leaned pretty far back and I am prone to death wobble.

NCK4L · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 07:58:06 PM »

HP's better and stronger

skyscraper · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 08:02:22 PM »

Agree...get a freakin high pinion!

swapped89 · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 08:14:37 PM »

My DL angle was bad and i gotta Hp. But i too thought about cutting and rotating the knuckles. Take pics and let us know how it goes!

skyscraper · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 02, 2009, 08:35:28 PM »

ummm do you have like a 30 inch lift on your truck or what

86toyota · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 03, 2009, 08:31:37 AM »

Marlin 5" sas front chevy springs rear. Stock drive train, 35x12.50r16. Leaving my caster stock, that why im rotateing my knuckle "bells" instead of shimming the spring perches. so all the stearing and everthing will be where it was just the pinion will be facing a few degrees up. Im in college and cant afford a HP...yet. its not going to cost me any thing to do this as i am in a welding school which is another reason im doing this...i need a fun and practical project. And no i dont have a 30 inch lift. Im in Montana where there is snow all winter long and icey roads. Im tired of the vibration when my hubs are turned in and front d shaft turning. Sorry i forgot to get a picture before i pulled the front d-shaft off but the 3rd member was sitting at 5 degrees and the d-shaft was sitting at 25 degrees. so im going to rotate the pinion so its sitting at about 15 degrees. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/rotated_housing/ here are the plans that im going on. Fairly simple and no virbration...hopfully!!

TacoRunner · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 03, 2009, 11:50:19 AM »

Do you have dual cases?

What kind of caster are you running right now? Personnally any more 6 is not necessary. And if you rotate you pinion 5 - 10* it would be looking that the sky.

Post a photo please, just trying to help you so you dont do something thats not necessary.

I run 5"s of lift dual case and a high pinion. Caster is 6* and I could add about 1 or 2* to the pinion to make it perfect, but I dont need to.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 03, 2009, 11:53:46 AM »

When checking your caster, please make sure you're on level ground. If thats not possible, measure the slope of the ground you're on. I'd use a long level at least 6' then put an angle finder on it and see what its at.

And dont rotate anything if you dont have dual cases but they're in your future.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 03, 2009, 11:55:42 AM »

You are aware that with a mini truck front end that rotating your knuckles will result in a spring perch problem. You will be making a new perch for both sides.

86toyota · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 03, 2009, 04:08:07 PM »

Yes i am aware i need to rotate my spring perches as well. I will be air-arcing them out so I will reuse the stock ones...not a problem. I have not ever messed with my caster so it should be sitting fairly level. and i have no idea when i will do dual cases. Im in college and cant afford that for a few years or a high pinion. This is my best bet right now because i cant deal with the vibration any more.

86toyota · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 03, 2009, 04:30:17 PM »

it wont let me post my progress pictures from today. i got all the marlin guessets off and steering bump stops torched off and ground smooth with a flapper disc. also took my wire wheel and got all of the paint off. not bad for 2 hours of work...we were in the class room all day. Tomorrow im air-arcing off the spring perches, cutting of the knuckle rotateing and welding it up. and rewelding on steering bumpstops, shock mounts, etc. running all my parts thru the solvent tank and throwing it back together. Probably will only be rotating the pinion up another 8 degrees instead of 10 so if i ever do duals i wont another problem.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 04, 2009, 08:31:16 AM »

Good luck dude. I understand the money thing. Take your time doing it. Seriously take your time, this isn't something you want to do twice.

hilux-1983 · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 04, 2009, 09:58:26 AM »

Subscribed

swapped89 · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 04, 2009, 02:12:38 PM »

are you sure you wanna do 8 degrees. i shimmed my rear axle 2 or 3 degrees and it moved the pinion 1-1.5 inches. 8 degrees is alot.

86toyota · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 04, 2009, 03:30:51 PM »

got the welds out that hold the knuckles on. i got the degrees of angle of the spring perches and of the races that hold the knuckle bearings...same angle. my plan for monday is to build a jig that holds the the axle level and holds the pinion at about 13 degrees. then i will clamp the axle down so it wont turn when i twist the knuckles. i will put my angle gauge on the race and twist till i get it to the original angle. this way im sure everything is lined up perfect. cant wait. so all together my pinion will be rotated up about 8 degrees. should be perfect as before my drive shaft angle was at 25 and my pinion angle was at 5

86toyota · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 04, 2009, 03:31:28 PM »

not rear axle...front axle guys.

Quote from: swapped89 on Dec 04, 2009, 02:12:38 PM

are you sure you wanna do 8 degrees. i shimmed my rear axle 2 or 3 degrees and it moved the pinion 1-1.5 inches. 8 degrees is alot.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 02:19:43 PM »

Quote from: hilux-1983 on Dec 04, 2009, 09:58:26 AM

Subscribed

This isn't PBB dude.

86toyota · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 04:04:05 PM »

pbb?

Pat · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 04:44:00 PM »

EDIT.. My reply was posted before i read you have it done.. Good Job $Beer Chug\'n$

Rotating the knuckles is a excellent choice.. And very common to a lot of folks. It really is not very hard to do and If you figure everything out you can get everything Just right(geometry, pinion angle and so on) I have built wider toyota fronts and always set up my pinion angle where it should be for you application. Right now I set up my 62" Dana 44 I narrowed it took 12* of knuckle rotation to get where I wanted it and still achieve my steering geometry I desired

Tell me this, What is the down side of having your axle properly set up? If your truck came from the factory with all the lift it has now I bet the pinion angle would be were it is supposed to be. Not only that a rotated pinion on a stock axle Achieves almost the same driveshaft clearance that a HP does on a non rotated housing as far as the typical set up out there

The folks that tell you it is stupid don't have any clue what they are talking about.. Go over to pirate and you can find many many folks who have done it.. As well as one of my toyota front axle wider threads.... Let us know how it goes..

Oh yea, Get a hold of Roger(search 4crawler on google) for some weld on shims to fit your needs.. It is a good choise instead of trying to conture the spring pads to the changing shape of the housing as you rotate them

here is a thread on the one toyota axle I made wider.. Gives you a idea what is involved.. You can do it with a grinder and don't have to remove the knuckle balls either.. for a simple rotate job it is a peice of cake in the garage.. Matter a fact you leave the housing bolted to the springs if you want.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654231&highlight=front+axle+gettin+wider

TacoRunner · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 05:27:38 PM »

Quote from: 86toyota on Dec 05, 2009, 04:04:05 PM

pbb?

Pirate Bulletin Board

TacoRunner · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 05:39:13 PM »

Quote from: Pat on Dec 05, 2009, 04:44:00 PM

Rotating the knuckles is a excellent choice..

Sorry bro, but I didn't read anything from the above posted that said it was a bad idea. I think a lot of us just want to make sure that the desicion was made with ALL the facts being considered so as to avoid any uninformed desicion.

Quote from: Pat on Dec 05, 2009, 04:44:00 PM

And very common to a lot of folks.

I would disagree with you on that, it's really only common to those that have done it. And if more have done it we would likely see more write ups on it.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 05:46:26 PM »

Quote from: Pat on Dec 05, 2009, 04:44:00 PM

Tell me this, What is the down side of having your axle properly set up?

You are right, there is nothing wrong about having your axle setup properly, but usally this kind of thing is reserved for those that exhausted all other options, such as dual cased and high pinion. Rotating the knuckles may bite him in the butt down the road if he gets either DualCases or a HP. He may endup being faced with having to purchase a new housing because of this kind of mod. I think thats all anyone was trying to say.

Quote from: Pat on Dec 05, 2009, 04:44:00 PM

The folks that tell you it is stupid don't have any clue what they are talking about..

Like I said, no one here is stupid about this, just making sure all the P's and Q's are mined before he dives into it. Making smart desicions about big projects like this are very important and shouldn't be made on a whim.

potter85 · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 06:07:13 PM »

love this idea of extending the short side by turning down the dom tubing a custom left side shaft would be needed tho small price to pay to be a legend

potter85 · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 06:12:50 PM »

it is hard to create things outside the box when you live in one. i think he should consider all the pros and cons of the project but doesnt need someone acting like his dad and telling him "how it is done"

TacoRunner · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 06:18:50 PM »

I very much agree with you, and I hope Im not doing that. But I said what I said because all to often people get in to this sport, read something on a board and do it without knowing exactly what they are getting into. Like I said I hope Im DAD here. Not what I was trying to say, just making sure he understands. I dont think I was saying "NO" so much as saying "hold on a second".

potter85 · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 06:22:25 PM »

i understand

86toyota · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 06:43:13 PM »

im glad im getting so much support for my project. No body has hurt my feelings haha and i see what all you guys are saying. I didnt jump right into this idea. I have been thinking about my options for 2 years since i did the sas(my self at 18 years old). Being a student this is my best option at the moment. Like i said i cant afford hp's or duals. and i dont like shims as i have driven a toyota with 3 and 6 degree shims and hated the steering. with this set up i wont need an hp. and if i ever need to cut them apart again if i do duals its really not that big of deal. its not that hard of a project and i am more than capable with my fab skills to get everything lined up.

86toyota · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 06:48:55 PM »

thanks for the support. By the way i love your thread. Machining is bad ass and i especially love the intricate fab of that stuff. Deffinatly no where the technicality in my project but that bad ass man

Quote from: Pat on Dec 05, 2009, 04:44:00 PM

EDIT.. My reply was posted before i read you have it done.. Good Job $Beer Chug\'n$

Rotating the knuckles is a excellent choice.. And very common to a lot of folks. It really is not very hard to do and If you figure everything out you can get everything Just right(geometry, pinion angle and so on) I have built wider toyota fronts and always set up my pinion angle where it should be for you application. Right now I set up my 62" Dana 44 I narrowed it took 12* of knuckle rotation to get where I wanted it and still achieve my steering geometry I desired

Tell me this, What is the down side of having your axle properly set up? If your truck came from the factory with all the lift it has now I bet the pinion angle would be were it is supposed to be. Not only that a rotated pinion on a stock axle Achieves almost the same driveshaft clearance that a HP does on a non rotated housing as far as the typical set up out there

The folks that tell you it is stupid don't have any clue what they are talking about.. Go over to pirate and you can find many many folks who have done it.. As well as one of my toyota front axle wider threads.... Let us know how it goes..

Oh yea, Get a hold of Roger(search 4crawler on google) for some weld on shims to fit your needs.. It is a good choise instead of trying to conture the spring pads to the changing shape of the housing as you rotate them

here is a thread on the one toyota axle I made wider.. Gives you a idea what is involved.. You can do it with a grinder and don't have to remove the knuckle balls either.. for a simple rotate job it is a peice of cake in the garage.. Matter a fact you leave the housing bolted to the springs if you want.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654231&highlight=front+axle+gettin+wider

Bazzi · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 05, 2009, 07:04:33 PM »

watching you

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