School me on car audio stuff

[KDXSR5]

So after reading a recent thread elsewhere on the forum about speaker mounting I began thinking. I have wanted to add a sub to my truck or just make it sound better in general, but I also want to know if I am doing everything correctly. So I am asking for suggestions on how to make my system better using the stuff I already have and possibly adding a sub.

So far I have installed:
Older Blaupunkt head unit that does have pre-amp outputs (BPV660)

4" JBL Power speakers with crossovers (P462) in the dash (they were a gift I have no idea how good/bad these are nor do i really understand what a crossover does) http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=P462&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=POS

6" x 9" Pioneer A-Series speakers (TS-A6982R) from Walmart behind the seats in some pre-made boxes from Walmart http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Speakers/A-Series/Pioneer/TS-A6982R



So I was thinking that I could either run an amp to my 4 speakers to improve how they work and call it good, or I could run an amp to a sub in the bed (I have a shell on my truck so weather is not a problem). I am unsure about a few things:

I have no idea what all the different ratings mean on amplifiers

I don't know the difference between 2 channel vs 4 channel

I don't know what to do about a sub if i go that route

I don't know if I can run an amp for the 4 speakers and another one for a sub because I only have one pre-amp output or if i can run them all off of one amp



Clearly I know absolutely nothing. Please school me on this, it would be greatly appreciated. I really need help figuring out the amplifier situation and how to select an amp etc. Thanks!

[Duffil]

So after reading a recent thread elsewhere on the forum about speaker mounting I began thinking. I have wanted to add a sub to my truck or just make it sound better in general, but I also want to know if I am doing everything correctly. So I am asking for suggestions on how to make my system better using the stuff I already have and possibly adding a sub.

So far I have installed:
Older Blaupunkt head unit that does have pre-amp outputs (BPV655)

4" JBL Power speakers with crossovers (P462) in the dash (they were a gift I have no idea how good/bad these are nor do i really understand what a crossover does) http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=P462&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=POS simply put, a crossover cuts out certain frequencies from getting to your speakers. you don't want anything below say, 1.5kHz getting to your mids/highs, so a crossover filters those frequencies out. that is of course an oversimplification

6" x 9" Pioneer A-Series speakers (TS-A6982R) from Walmart behind the seats in some pre-made boxes from Walmart http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Speakers/A-Series/Pioneer/TS-A6982R



So I was thinking that I could either run an amp to my 4 speakers to improve how they work and call it good, or I could run an amp to a sub in the bed (I have a shell on my truck so weather is not a problem). I am unsure about a few things:

I have no idea what all the different ratings mean on amplifiers what do you mean? which ratings? if an amp is rated at 400 Watts at 2 Ohms, it will put out its' peak power ONLY when it sees a 2 ohm load from the speakers. Power levels will decrease as the amp sees more impedance from the speakers. Also, you would not want to have a speaker set up that had a lower impedance (ohm rating) than the amp is capable of, this will damage the amp.

I don't know the difference between 2 channel vs 4 channelsimple. a 2-channel amp simply has 2 outputs, a 4 channel has 4 speaker outputs.

I don't know what to do about a sub if i go that routebuy one. it goes in a box. amplify the signal it recieves. Lean like a cholo.

I don't know if I can run an amp for the 4 speakers and another one for a sub because I only have one pre-amp output or if i can run them all off of one ampdepends on the amp. some(most)amps have separate low level(RCA) and high (speaker) level inputs. you can amplify all of the signal leaving your head unit, with the right equipment.



Clearly I know absolutely nothing. Please school me on this, it would be greatly appreciated. I really need help figuring out the amplifier situation and how to select an amp etc. Thanks!

head to a stereo shop and pick the brains of some of the guys.

[pumkin toy]

i would recommend not mounting your sub in the bed of the truck, even though you have a shell.  it would not sound very good and you would not "feel" a good clean bass hit.  i am assuming your truck is a standard cab?  for starters i would try to get some speakers mounted in the doors.  having your 6x9s stuffed behind the seats muffles the sound alot.  i have a friend who owns a 95 standard cab tacoma.  he has speakers in the dash and in the doors plus tweaters mounted to the top of the dash.  he also built a custom box for an 8" Kicker Comp sub. it is rectangular shaped and fits between the seats, therefore it also doubles as a nice armrest!   his stereo setup sounds very good and "crisp" with solid bass hits.  dont limit yourself to thinking you have to get a big 12" sub to make alot of bass.  there are many companies now days that make very loud subs in small sizes.  for example JL audio has 8" subs that sound VERY good and you can get them in different cone/magnet depth sizes to fit into small places.  they key to making your sub sound good is to pair the proper OHM load sub with the stable running OHM load of your amp.  that way you will get the maximum power output from your amp and it will sound the best.

[86bobbedtoy]

if I get started on car audio I wont stop
get some mids and highs in the doors and dash
I recoment a single 10 behind the seat

rockford fosgate makes a great shallow mount sub
p3 shallow mount
i think its only 3-4" deep
heres a pic of my system, its in a full size stardard cab

[86bobbedtoy]

also you can run a 4 channel amp with 2 x overs
run hi pass for 2 channels-running your mids and highs
and bridge the other 2 channels for the sub and run the low pass.

I recoment a fosgate t4004 pr p4004
ebay one on the cheap.- new
check out highdesertcaraudio on ebay

[Duffil]

nice box.

[Tallchevy]

You can use a 3 channel amp (Stereo/mono) if you using 1 sub. This will cut down on wiring & space since you can run the left & right (channels 1 & 2) for the mid highs & the 3rd for the sub. You also have to worry about the speakers ohm ratings cause you can hook up too many speakers to an amp & let the smoke out if it's wired wrong.

[brockbuilt85]

pioneer also makes a good shallow sub, dont know the part number, but my brother has two tens in his truck and the pound HARD. i dunno what year truck your doing this for, but i know that q logic makes kick panels for 90s toyotas, and they are nice. also, you could run a 4 channel amp (depending on what you got) run your highs (front speakers) off 2 channels, and one your lows(1 sub) off the other channels bridged. ive seen it done before, but i dunno how they did it. and remember people, quality over quanity.

[86bobbedtoy]

nice box.

thanks 3rd try
first was sealed
2nd was ported
3rd ported but tuned to 35hz

Im running
pioneer head unit
2 infinity 6x9
2 fosgate power 5 1/4 2 ways
2 fosgate power T112d4
1 fosgate power t10001bd
1 fosgate power t3002
all RF wiring 2 1 fared caps

[-Matt-]

from a decent amount of streao experience iv realized that the main portion of what makes a system sound good is what kind of amp you have and how nice the sub box or speakers are mounted. the brand of speakers also plays a role but not as significantly as whats running them. i would Highly recommend bridging amps. its one of the most legit ways to get crystal clear sounds. use a type A/B high pass amp for running all your speakers, and use a type D Mono specific amp for your subs. with this setup your are able to turn all bass off to your speakers so they wont distort and will sound crisp and run nothing but bass to your subs. its the best because you are specifying frequencies to individual speakers instead of just running everything meshed together from the same high/low pass amp. it will still thump but it willll not be even close to as true or crisp as a bridged amp setup will be.

[blackdiamond]

I think everyone is going beyond what KDXSR5 is looking for.  The fact that he doesn't understand the difference between a 2 and 4 channel amp indicates that car audio isn't a hobby of his.  I'll try to address a few of his more simple questions keeping in mind that I'm not an expert either.

(1) Mounting a sub in the bed of your truck would sound horrible and not be worth the effort.  There are some shallow mounts on the market that might let you put something behind the seats.

(2) If you have a standard cab I would consider simply upgrading the front 4 inch speakers to a 3 or 4-way design to improve the sound quality, I'll try to find a suggestion for this.  A 3-way speaker simply means that there are essentially three speakers built into the single speaker unit.  This allows each of the three parts to focus on individual sound frequency ranges reducing distortion.  Speakers don't do well when they are required to handle the full range of sound.

(3) Assuming you upgrade the front channels speakers I would probably just look for an 8 or 10 inch subwoofer that could be shallow mounted behind the seat with a small amp to match.  This would provide adequate bass response, but you wouldn't be ready for shows.

In a small truck cab space is limited so I think it's better to go with simple upgrades to improve the sound.

[86bobbedtoy]

walmart sells pioneers shallow mount in a box, all preloaded
meaning just wire it up.
Im not sure on the specs or exact size, but it would fit behind the seat of a yota no problem.

[blackdiamond]

After some research, I realized that the standard for 4 inch diameter speakers is a 2-way design so that is likely what I have.  Knowing this, your JBL speakers, if they are in good condition, should be fine.  The only thing that I might have opted for is a higher sensitivity rating.  Your speakers are rated for 91 dB and it is possible to get 92 or 93 dB with some looking.  This rating tell you the sound volume that it obtained with a 1 watt input.  To put it simply, you will get more volume with equal power making the speakers more efficient.  To me this is a way to determine the highest quality, but certainly not the only factor.

[blackdiamond]

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10569314

This might work for the subwoofer depending on the actual size.  You can actually find some pictures in the 360 degree view window.

[blackdiamond]

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KSCSW10/Kenwood-KSC-SW10.html?tp=114

If you have realistic expectations this might be a good option.

[Tallchevy]

Not knowing how much you want to spend or what you want to add, another option is to use the deck to run the speakers you have now & turn the bass down on the deck. Use a 1 channel or 2 channel amp bridged to run the sub. Unless you trying the enter stereo competitions you don't need all the expensive stuff. I can't see having expensive stereo equipment getting messed up with trail dust/water etc. I my 4Runner I have the deck running the dash speaker & 6.5's in the rear panels. The bass is turned down but not all the way, just enough the keep most the distortion out when it's turned up. I have an amp running the subs. It's good enough for a dd/trail truck  

[blackdiamond]

Not knowing how much you want to spend or what you want to add, another option is to use the deck to run the speakers you have now & turn the bass down on the deck. Use a 1 channel or 2 channel amp bridged to run the sub. Unless you trying the enter stereo competitions you don't need all the expensive stuff. I can't see having expensive stereo equipment getting messed up with trail dust/water etc. I my 4Runner I have the deck running the dash speaker & 6.5's in the rear panels. The bass is turned down but not all the way, just enough the keep most the distortion out when it's turned up. I have an amp running the subs. It's good enough for a dd/trail truck  

That's similar to what I have.  I'm running upgraded 4 inch speakers in the front, 6x9 boxes on the floor behind the front seats and a 10 inch subwoofer that is powered by a 920 watt amp in the far back.  The bass can be overkill, but I got great deals and it can be dialed back for a balanced sound.

check out www.millionbuy.com for great prices on quality products.

[KDXSR5]

Wow guys, thanks for all the info! I will look into fitting a sub in the cab, but it is going in an 85 standard cab so I highly doubt I will be putting a sub in my system.

If I do add some speakers into the doors, how would I hook those up? The head unit has 4 speaker wires if I remember correctly, so do I just tap into two of those? I am confused on this because I would still like to keep my 6x9s and the 4 inch speakers I have in the dash. Could I just tap into the front speaker wires?

Since a sub is now unlikely, how would I go about hooking an amp up to my existing four speakers? Do I just plug a 4 channel amp into the pre-amp output and then run speaker wires to each of my four speakers? How would this affect my ability to fade front to rear or balace side to side? Or would I loose the ability to do that?

I do like my front speakers, they provide very good sound. Nice and clean when the volume is turned up. Not so good when the volume is low. They are newer, I think I installed them maybe a year or two ago. The 6x9s seem to have issues trying to produce all of the mids and lows that the front speakers do not produce I am assuming because of the crossovers that they have installed on them. I was hoping that adding an amp to the four speakers would help them all out at least a little bit. If I can figure out how to hook up some mid sized speakers in the doors then maybe those will take over playing the mids and I can concentrate the lows on the 6x9s. I just don't know how to wire in two more speakers because I only have 4 speaker wires coming out of the head unit.

Thanks so much guys, I am a total noob at this stuff so take it easy on me and use simple terms or please explain the terms you do use. I have tried searching this stuff on the internet but I quickly become very confused. Again, thanks!

[Duffil]

a sub is still very possible, I had 2 10s in a 1st gen, you just lose some seat room. Get a shallow mount sub, and make the box thin and tall.

Get an amp that has a high-level input (speaker level, not RCAs) and run from your deck into the amp, and then out to the speakers.

[Duffil]

here are some pics of an amp i've got sitting in my desk drawer. notice the inputs and outputs--also built in lowpass adjustable crossover.

on the outputs, it saysl+/l- and r+/r- and Bridged. Bridged is a mono channel that would push all the power from the amp into a single channel for just subs. if you are amping mids/his you wouldn't run it bridged.

[KDXSR5]

So is that a 2 channel amp that has the ability to accept the speaker wires coming out of the back of the head unit then outputs to the two speakers I have hooked into the input?

[Duffil]

wait i just reread that...you don't have speakers hooked to your input. heres a flow chart:

head unit output--->amp input hi level----> speakers via amp output.

OR

Head unit preamp out---->amp input low level (RCA)----->subs.

[KDXSR5]

Sooo confused. So, lets say theoretically I have two speakers to hook up. One on the left of my truck, one on the right of my truck. I could come from the head unit with speaker wires for those two speakers and run them to the HI INPUT on that amp, correct? I would then hook up the OUTPUT to those two speakers, correct? So I took the signal for the two speakers from the head unit, put them through that amplifier, then hooked up to the speakers with the increased power from the amplifier, correct?

[Duffil]

correct.

[KDXSR5]

correct.

I think I am getting this now! haha. So if I had a 4 channel amp, I would run the four speaker wires to the HI INPUT on the amp, then run wire to the 4 speakers from the OUTPUT on the amp, correct? That way I could still use my balance and fade and all that good stuff plus have the signal amped up from the amp.

Ok, so if i do that with a four channel amp, could I hook up 4 speakers to the front two OUTPUTs  and run two off of the rear two OUTPUTs? So I would have 6 speakers, four controlled on the two front INPUT/OUTPUT and two controlled on the two rear INPUT/OUTPUT. Does that sound correct?

[Duffil]

part 1: yes, except each speaker has 2 wires. remember that.

part 2: you can IF you match the impedance of the speakers to the amp. this gets more complicated, as 2- 4ohm speakers in series(+ to - and - to +) nets you and 8 ohm load, but you could run them in parallel (+out on amp to both pos on speakers, same on neg side) and give yourself a 2 ohm load with the same 4 ohm speakers. it's all about impedance matching.

edit: this would be sooo much easier to explain in person.

[KDXSR5]

part 1: yes, except each speaker has 2 wires. remember that.

So I would have 8 wires in and 8 wires out, got that I just am not using the right terms. I should say 4 sets of wires not 4 wires. Sorry about that.


So lets say I run a 4 channel amp to my 4 speakers. Can I then run another amp off of my pre-amp on my head unit to drive a sub? So I would have 2 amps, a 4 channel running my 4 speakers, and a one channel or a bridged two channel running my sub?

[Duffil]

yes. two channel running bridged is usually cheaper than a good monoblock amp also. I paid like 90 for the 400 watt amp pictured earlier, and it is 2ohm stable. I ran 2 dual 4ohm voice coil 10s in series/parallel at 2 ohms and it pounded in a 1st gen.  bridged in a 2nd gen at 4 ohms with 2 JL 10s was nice as well.

this amp is also tri-mode capable, meaning I can run a sub bridged with an external crossover, and a left and right channel at the same time as long as the total impedance is not lower than 2 ohms. but I am getting way past what you want to do I think.

[pumkin toy]

yes you can do that if you have two sets of RCA connections on your deck

[KDXSR5]

yes.

Ok I got all of that down now. Cool. So does this diagram make sense? 4 inchers up top, 6x9s below, sub on bottom. I would run the 4 sets up speaker wires to the HI INPUT on a 4 channel amp and then the OUTPUT has the 4 sets sending the amped up signal to the four wires. I then go from the RCA hookup on the head to another amp that then amps up the signal for my sub.