Author Topic: different heads  (Read 7391 times)

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acerbis

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different heads
« on: Dec 20, 2007, 08:37:45 PM »
i just bought a used head from a junk yard to put on my 87 22r. on the side it says #7 and compareing it to my old one it looks different. My old one is a #16. the combustion chambers look different and there is one exaust stud on the #7 vs 2 on #16 (in the middle for the exaust manafold.
Does anyone have any info for me?
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Duffil

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Re: different heads
« Reply #1 on: Dec 20, 2007, 08:41:17 PM »
sounds like you bought an model head.  go back and swap it for one off of a square valve cover 22R/E.

acerbis [OP]

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Re: different heads
« Reply #2 on: Dec 20, 2007, 08:43:49 PM »
any more info then that?? what is a model head??
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Duffil

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Re: different heads
« Reply #3 on: Dec 20, 2007, 09:15:15 PM »
oops sorry.  I was on the phone while typing.  I meant an EARLY model head(81-84) you need a 85-95 head.

acerbis [OP]

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Re: different heads
« Reply #4 on: Dec 21, 2007, 07:30:55 PM »
would it be possible though??
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Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #5 on: Dec 21, 2007, 09:39:35 PM »
Here is a link for ya, with pics, explaining the differences.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar119838.htm
a little more info:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Measurements for ref: (I know, im answering my own questions....)

Proper Deck Heights – Blocks & Heads

Whenever you go through an engine or cylinder head re-build, there will be some amount of "re-surfacing" that has to be performed to either the block or the head. Most frequently, it's the cylinder head. This is also known as "decking."
For machining purposes, deck height on an engine block is the measured distance between the "Center Line of the Main Journal" to the "Deck Surface". This can only be performed with the engine block disassembled and the crankshaft removed. Toyota factory heights would be:

Early 20R Blocks 75-80 9.120"
Early 22R Blocks 81-84 9.120"
Late 22RE Blocks 85-95 8.930"

For easy identification purposes, with the engine still assembled, deck height on an engine block is the measured distance between the "Oil Pan Rail" (bottom of the engine block) to the "Deck Surface" (top of the engine block). Toyota 20R, 22R and 22RE engine blocks have these factory deck heights:

Early 20R Blocks 75-80 11.280"
Early 22R Blocks 81-84 11.280"
Late 22RE Blocks 85-95 11.090"

Deck height on a cylinder head is the distance between the bottom of the "Camshaft Journal" to the "Surface of the Cylinder Head" itself. Toyota 20R, 22R and 22RE cylinder heads have these factory deck heights:

Early 20r/22R Heads 75-84 3.290"
Late 22R/22RE Heads 85-95 3.130"

These numbers are especially important if you have purchased a pre-owned engine and have no idea what, if any, modifications were made prior. In other words, it's a starting point in establishing how much re-surfacing has already been performed to the head or block. Example: If you have a late 22RE cylinder head that has a measured deck height of 3.110", then it is probably safe to say that the head has been "decked" approximately 0.020".

c/o LC Engineering

From personal experiance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you know that 20 r motors and 22r motors all use the same crank and conecting rods from 79 through 95?
Early 20R Blocks 75-80 9.120"
Early 22R Blocks 81-84 9.120"

Another weird fact is that even though these blocks had the same deck height the 20r uses flat top pistons and the early (td)22r uses dome pistons due to a head change.
The ID difference between the two being a 20R has round intake ports in the head and the 22R has square

Some 20r info:
1975 1982 20R Cylinder Head
Round Intake Port / Round Exhaust Port
80 / 81cc Chamber
In. Valve Dia. 43mm / Ex. Valve Dia. 35mm
More info I found:
The short deck has a slightly lower block than the tall deck. (duh)
The short deck uses a 2 less links in the timing chain. 96 vs 98 links
I have been told that the 96 link single row chain can be upgraded to a double row by using a modified early 22R timing cover, oil pump, drive spline.
The 20R exhaust manifold had air injection that mounted on the manifold top and no oxygen sensor mount.
The 22R does not and some do and dont have an oxygen sensor mount.
The 20R exhuast manifold outlet has a single outlet into the exhuast pipe.
The 22R exhaust manifold had dual outlet.
The 20R exhaust manifold usually had 1 lower center mount stud.
The 22R exhaust manifold usually had 2 lower center mount studs.
Some early 22R exhaust manifolds had single lower center stud hole.
Some 22R exhaust manifolds had both configs of holes and had 3 holes.
Aftermarket exhuast manifolds usually fit all 20R/21R/22R by having all possible holes.
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...pho/eng20R.htm)

On some of that I'm not so sure, I think the 22R also had the air injection. Plus, after 20 years, who knows what has gotten swapped out.

Here are a couple pics to help ya identfy what ya got.
20r ehaust port shape


22r exhaust port shape

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Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #6 on: Dec 21, 2007, 09:43:23 PM »
If you have both heads removed from the blocks get some pics and I can help you identify ehactly what ya have and what will work.

If your motor has efi and flat top pistons you will need a short deck head. The combustion chambers should be shaped like this, but anything is possible.
Hug your kids, pray for a soldier, and don't sweat the small stuff.

my favorite places:
http://www.flatnasty.net/
http://www.orvpark.com/

– fortysixandtwo – sorry, i prefer marlin because aside from gittinit, no one is a know it all a hole

Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #7 on: Dec 21, 2007, 09:46:13 PM »
i just bought a used head from a junk yard to put on my 87 22r. on the side it says #7 and compareing it to my old one it looks different. My old one is a #16. the combustion chambers look different and there is one exaust stud on the #7 vs 2 on #16 (in the middle for the exaust manafold.
Does anyone have any info for me?

I don't know what the numbers mean but My short deck(late model) head has the centered ehaust stud, as well as provisions for the other manifolds as well.
Hug your kids, pray for a soldier, and don't sweat the small stuff.

my favorite places:
http://www.flatnasty.net/
http://www.orvpark.com/

– fortysixandtwo – sorry, i prefer marlin because aside from gittinit, no one is a know it all a hole

Duffil

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Re: different heads
« Reply #8 on: Dec 21, 2007, 09:47:32 PM »
the above pictures and captions are incorrect.  the 20/early 22rs had the above style exhaust ports, and the 85-95 22r has the lower pictured style.

Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #9 on: Dec 21, 2007, 10:19:16 PM »
I don't want to argue with ya but do ya have proof? I don't have an early 22r head anymore to verify.
Hug your kids, pray for a soldier, and don't sweat the small stuff.

my favorite places:
http://www.flatnasty.net/
http://www.orvpark.com/

– fortysixandtwo – sorry, i prefer marlin because aside from gittinit, no one is a know it all a hole

Tallchevy

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Re: different heads
« Reply #10 on: Dec 21, 2007, 10:23:44 PM »
This is the same info that Gittinit posted but I started a thread in the engine topic area with the link to the page & asked for it to be a sticky but it never happened  :dunno:

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=39306.0
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87 4Runner redo
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=41959.0
87 Toyota 4Runner, SAS Rig Gallery
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=29877.msg3

Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #11 on: Dec 21, 2007, 10:26:57 PM »
Oh there is no early 22r head pictured.
Top pic is a 20r head exaust ports, 2nd pic is a short deck 22r head, as well as the 3rd/bottom pic, whic is the same head.

I would edit my post, but I still can't do that...probbly couse I played the violin in da band.
 :bananaguitar:

If this info is correct tallchevy(havent read your link yet) it should be a sticky. :twocents:
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my favorite places:
http://www.flatnasty.net/
http://www.orvpark.com/

– fortysixandtwo – sorry, i prefer marlin because aside from gittinit, no one is a know it all a hole

jimbo74

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Re: different heads
« Reply #12 on: Dec 21, 2007, 10:34:04 PM »
early 22r has round exhuast ports and the late 22r (same as the 22re) has pear ports


and this is in the trucks.....



there seems to be a lot of variations of the 22r around... i have seen a 22re with the old shaped early 22r rounded valve covers because it was from a celica or something... and have seen a celica 22re from 1983 and things liek that
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acerbis [OP]

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Re: different heads
« Reply #13 on: Dec 23, 2007, 01:29:19 PM »
so i measuerd the head and the early one is about 4mm bigger. I wonder if there is enought slack in a new chain to make the swap. Other then that it looks good. the combustion chambers are different but i don't think that would make too big of a deal. that chain tensioner is weird. I thought that there would be a bolt to releave
the tension???
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Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #14 on: Dec 23, 2007, 01:39:43 PM »
Would the yard will take it back and give ya the correct replacement, or a refund???? I don't think it will work becouse you will loose so much compression. The combustion chambers are bigger on the early head, and there is only x amount of fuel going by those valves. If it would work you may wind up having a 4 cylinder that feels like a brigs and stratton.
Hug your kids, pray for a soldier, and don't sweat the small stuff.

my favorite places:
http://www.flatnasty.net/
http://www.orvpark.com/

– fortysixandtwo – sorry, i prefer marlin because aside from gittinit, no one is a know it all a hole

acerbis [OP]

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Re: different heads
« Reply #15 on: Dec 23, 2007, 02:01:54 PM »
no refund. I'll probally just ebay it.
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Gittinit

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Re: different heads
« Reply #16 on: Dec 23, 2007, 02:11:05 PM »
no refund. I'll probally just ebay it.
That might be your best bet. Try the for sale section on here. I have sold parts to a few good people on through this forum. :crossed:
Hug your kids, pray for a soldier, and don't sweat the small stuff.

my favorite places:
http://www.flatnasty.net/
http://www.orvpark.com/

– fortysixandtwo – sorry, i prefer marlin because aside from gittinit, no one is a know it all a hole

 
 
 
 
 

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