Topic: What College Major Would You Suggest!?

[sam2145871]

Alright I've been running this through my head since I was a sophmore in high school(I'm a sophmore in college now). What would be your suggestions toward majoring in if you want to be a fabricator for a living. I know that being a machinist falls into that, but then so does welding, engineering, auto technician, and a few other things. So when it comes down to it is there a major that would cover all these bases or at least a good majority of them. Let me hear your suggestions. Currently I'm majoring in Mechanical Engineering Technology. All it is is a more hands on approach to mechanical engineering. More field work per say compared to being behind a desk. Anyways toss me some ideas for a change in majors so that I could possibly end up doing what I enjoy the most. FABRICATION! Thanks!

[BLACKDOG]

I would say you're prolly on the right track

[sam2145871 [OP]]

Yeah I was affraid that was the case. The only problem I'm having with the engineering is all the calc. courses that are needed. I have to go up to calc 4. I love the physics portion, but we'll see i guess. Toss me some more ideas here guys!!! PLEASE!!!

[BLACKDOG]

have you looked at some local trade schools, or Community colleges?  They may have more of what you're looking for, and you can sometimes take those courses in conjuncture with your 4 year schooling  

[alwayzbroken]

I would say machining and take some welding courses while you are there. Math sucks. Thats why I dropped engineering in favor of business. Where do you plan on working is the question? You probably aren't gonna get hired as a bling bling fabricator strait out of school. You are gonna have to be in the trade a while to gain some experience and some sort of good work history before you are bending up tube and roll cages at some sort of shop 

[blackdiamond]

I would be interested to see how Mechanical Engineering Technology compares to an actual Mechanical Engineering degree.  I have an engineering degree so I am always interested in other "engineering" degrees as most have very little in common.  The fact that you are required to take Calc 4 indicates that more is required than most.  Most engineers don't love math, we just put up with it because it is a "tool" that is required.  Is there a website that shows the program you are in?

The main thing is to choose a major that will provide a solid income even if your "dream" job doesn't work out.  Engineering is quite an investment, but jobs are almost always available somewhere.

What kind of jobs do graduates from your program get when they finish?

[sam2145871 [OP]]

Ok here's the thing. A few of my buddies and I want to start a small fab shop once I'm out of school. One just got out of school to be an auto tech, 2 are out in seattle for commercial diving and have already gone through a welding program(one is Yota85 here on marlin). The two going for the diving will start with a 6 digit figure and for the first few years will probably foot a large portion of the costs. I admitt that I dont know a whole lot about starting a fab shop or a business in general, but my father has a small business out of the house and in my opinion and many others is one of the best fabricators/welders in the state. I'm just not sure what I could use to further this group to success. I know I'm going to get ALOT of shirt about this dream busness and all, but hey we all have to have goals right!?

[blackdiamond]

There is nothing wrong with having a "dream" job as a goal, this is what makes life worth living.  All I am saying is that if you are going to invest time and money in a degree make sure it has potential to stand on its own.  Plan for the future.  I think you should stay with your current program and possibly consider taking some business accounting classes as well.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

I'm currently up at Michigan Tech in Houghton, MI. The general website is www.mtu.edu, but I will find the actual site that shows everything for my department. For the most part from what I've heard from the alumni here is that they get into a wide range of things. From product testing to design to r&d. Many go to work for majopr corporations such as john deere, marcury marine, harley davidson, tennaco packaging, lousiana pacific, GM, Ford, and many others. The starting wages on average for an MET(Mechanical Engineering Technologist) is in the neighbor hood of 60,000-80,000 so its not to bad, but definatley not the best.

I would be interested to see how Mechanical Engineering Technology compares to an actual Mechanical Engineering degree.  I have an engineering degree so I am always interested in other "engineering" degrees as most have very little in common.  The fact that you are required to take Calc 4 indicates that more is required than most.  Most engineers don't love math, we just put up with it because it is a "tool" that is required.  Is there a website that shows the program you are in? The main thing is to choose a major that will provide a solid income even if your "dream" job doesn't work out.  Engineering is quite an investment, but jobs are almost always available somewhere. What kind of jobs do graduates from your program get when they finish?

[sam2145871 [OP]]

I also forgot to mention that at the end of the 4 years I have the option of taking one additional class and a large exam and I can graduate with an actual mechanical engineering degree instead of a degree in MET. I've heard that the job offerings can sometimes be a bit better when you have a full out ME degree, but that is all hearsay as I have no real experience with this yet.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

http://www.tech.mtu.edu/TMET/difference.html  That site gives an explanation/brief overview of the differences between basic ME and MET.

[blackdiamond]

I also forgot to mention that at the end of the 4 years I have the option of taking one additional class and a large exam and I can graduate with an actual mechanical engineering degree instead of a degree in MET. I've heard that the job offerings can sometimes be a bit better when you have a full out ME degree, but that is all hearsay as I have no real experience with this yet.

If you are really that close to an engineering degree you would be stupid to pass it up.  Why do all the work and not get the title to go with it?  I would be surprised if it was really that easy, but I'm sure it is possible.  The school looks to have a solid program.

It is possible that the exam is the 8 hour Fundamentals of Engineering Exam (FE or EIT), but I'm not sure you would have the option to sit for the 16 hour Professional Engineering Exam (PE), which requires a degree and two to four years experience, where you could actual stamp things.

I couldn't find a list of specific classes on the website, so take a look at this link from where I graduated and pull up the file for Mechanical Engineering for a list of classes and see how they compare to what you are taking.  The school offers an Engineering Degree with concentrations in Civil, Mechanical, Electrical or Computers.  It is a more board based degree than a true Mechanical Engineering Degree which is both good and bad.  I did my concentration in Civil but still took some electrical classes that wouldn't have been required in for a Civil Engineering Degree.

http://www.wwc.edu/3437.html

I have seen several engineering tech degrees that didn't require Engineering Mechanics (Statics & Dynamics) which is a sure sign that it isn't real engineering as it is a 2nd year class that is the basis for much of the next two or three years.  The upper division classes are where the programs differ I would suspect.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

Well see here's the thing. The reason I was considering a change is that I was set back my first year with claases because of some family stuff so as far as classes go I'm considered a freshman.  From what I'm gathering the thing to do is stick it out, but the math is really kicking my assssh. I'll also find the site with the course list for you to look at. They just updated it for this coming semester to taking calc1- calc4 which really sucks, but oh well.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

http://www.tech.mtu.edu/TMET/documents/TMET2006_08.pdf  :Heres a link to a list of coarses that I have to take. There are a few revisions that arent on this like the math, but it gives u a good general idea.

[blackdiamond]

That looks to be an excellent program.  I would suggest going for the full degree as it looks like it really could be one class extra.

Invest in a TI-89 calculator if you need help in math.  I think most people find that Calc 1 is the most difficult.  Calc 2 is basically the opposite of Calc 1 and 3 & 4 just build on the first two.

I took a math class called Combinatorics that was crazy.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorics 

[Rocksurfer]

Get that degree in engineering, then not only will you know how to put it together but you'll know how it works.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

Blackdiamond- I took a look at that math course you took and that looks insane. I have to admitt that I'm glad I'm not required to take a course like that. The more I look over other majors I believe that you are all correct in that I need to just stick it out. I have the TI-89 already but the one problem is that we arent allowed to use a calc. They informed us that we needed one, but now they arent allowed to be used, so now i'm lost! I also plan on staying an extra semester or so to take about 3 seperate courses in CAD design. I'm really into the program solid works cause I got to work with it for 3 months this year at my summer job.

Rocksurfer- You're definately right. The engineering will help in better understanding the components(strengths, weeknesses, and characteristics) and hopefully in the end give me an understanding of how the products function.

On another note I'll toss a few pics up of my last fab project and see what you guys think. Thanks again!

[germ]

I would have to agree with BD and bd on this. I would take the time and $$ and invest in an excellent education. The reason I suggest this, is that no one can take away an education. The Govt or IRS could come along and wipe out your business, or you may one day decide that you're tired of coming home dirty every night and smelling like welding rod. Having a solid education will give you the *opportunity* to change your mind later in life, and still have excellent employment opportunities.

I would also go for the highest degree/cert you can. Again, its all about investing in you're future. School is a grind, and there is no other way around it. While Calc sucks (yea, I had to take way too much of it also), you just have to put your head down and slog thru it. I personally don't use 1/10 of 1% of the math that I was forced to learn, it's still an excellent lesson in approaching difficult problems in a logical fashion. (Sometimes I think that that is the real reason why we do math in the first place, but what do I know).

Don't let anyone (friends, girlfriends or trucks) derail you from getting your degree. Ultimatly it will be you who pays the price. (not getting the job(s)/careers you want, not making as much $$, hating your job and not having options, etc.) Just stick to it, and you'll look back one day and be glad.

Erik

[CTENG in KS]

Man, I had the same stuff going through my head when I was about 2nd year engineering too...I will give you the same advice I got:

STICK IT OUT!
Take it one class at a time and do the best you can.  If you can suck it up and wade through it now you will reap the benefits of a good degree and lots of job opportunity later on.  The country has a BIG shortage of good engineers right now and there are jobs o plenty for those qualified.
Not everyone who wants to werk on trucks gets the chance.  For those of us who don't, it is nice to have a good job that can provide the income needed to finance trucks as a hobby.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

CTENG- Thank you for the advice! I have to admitt that I love some of the classes here. Material Science, Engineering Analysis, and the up coming CAD courses. The only prblems I'm having is the math. I get help from my teacher, private tutor(seriously its for math  ), my roommate/girl friend, and then I get help from class mates. I dominate the homework, but when it comes down to the tests its like my brain takes vacation. My last 3 test scores are as follows: 36 37 23. I what you are all thinking...WOW WHAT A DUMB ASSSSH, lol! My advisor actually told me to give up and cut my losses. He says that I might be more cut out for a factory job. What a selfasteam boost! But oh well my thought on it is that I need to prove them all wrong, but maybe they are right, idk. Thats enough for my sob story.

[Matty]

i am kind of in the same boat as you.  I am a first year engineering major though and calc is kicking my ass too.  I was looking at other things i could do too, but i dont know as of now.  i think i may try to stick it out.  like everyone is saying look long run it is going to pay off to have it, and you can always work on trucks not everyone always has the chance to get a degree like this.


good luck with whatever you choose. 

[sam2145871 [OP]]

Well since I seem to get the same responce from just about everyone, I can see that sticking it out is what I'll be doing. Ill just have to keep taking classes till i pass, lol. I may be here for the better side of a decade, but damnit ill come out of here with my ME or MET degree. LOL!!!

[DTB]

have you looked at some local trade schools, or Community colleges? 

yes, technical and trade schools will offer the most hands on learning.

[CTENG in KS]

it is a pain and takes a bit, but it will click soon, I promise.  It wasn't until I took calc for the second time (took it first in HS) that I finally got it.  Then you start being able to relate calc to physics and it all starts to come together.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

I sure hope it clicks this next semester here. That would be helpful, lol! Theres only 3 weeks left in the first semester and it isnt looking to good currently. But hey...

[robinhood4x4]

While it's true that in the real world you don't use the calculus, you NEED TO KNOW how to use it to get through your engineering classes.  If you don't have a good grasp of the math, you'll struggle in your engineering classes. 

Keep in mind that the first couple years of engineering school are the weed out classes. 

My advisor also told me I should try a different major.  Now, 6 years after graduating, I'm working as an engineer in the semiconductor world.  He got busted for having child porn on his work computer. 

However, if you really want to run a business, you might want to go into a business major.  You don't go to college to learn to be a fabricator.  You go to college to learn how to design things that the fabricators will build.  Most MEs don't actually do the building.  Of course this varies from company to company, but most of the big companies won't even let you touch the milling machines or welders. 

You don't go into engineering for the money, you go into engineering because you love engineering.  You go into business if you want money.

[blackdiamond]

I almost switched to business when I was a Mechanical Engineering major, but opted to go Civil instead.  As an engineer you can be a business man (I got both Math and Business minors), but a business degree won't let you do engineering.  An engineering education is as much about learning how to solve problems and developing thought process as it is actual knowledge that you will directly apply in the real world.

The best way to understand a math class is to take the next level up and the last one suddenly becomes clear.  The problem is that grades don't get changed.

I took a class with 4 people in it while in college and on one test we managed a collective 99%, I got the high score at 35% and the low was about 10%.  Also, in Linear Network Analysis I got a 35% on the first test and 39% on the second test.  Thankfully, there was a retake exam and I pulled a 68% and somehow got a 89% on the final.  The low test score was 11% of the grade, the high test was about 30% and the final was nearly 40% so I managed to pull a B out in the last couple of days.  The make-up exam and final were two days apart.

[sam2145871 [OP]]

While it's true that in the real world you don't use the calculus, you NEED TO KNOW how to use it to get through your engineering classes.  If you don't have a good grasp of the math, you'll struggle in your engineering classes. 

Keep in mind that the first couple years of engineering school are the weed out classes. 

My advisor also told me I should try a different major.  Now, 6 years after graduating, I'm working as an engineer in the semiconductor world.  He got busted for having child porn on his work computer. 

However, if you really want to run a business, you might want to go into a business major.  You don't go to college to learn to be a fabricator.  You go to college to learn how to design things that the fabricators will build.  Most MEs don't actually do the building.  Of course this varies from company to company, but most of the big companies won't even let you touch the milling machines or welders. 

You don't go into engineering for the money, you go into engineering because you love engineering.  You go into business if you want money.

My engineering classes are the ones I actually enjoy. It seems that when I can lay out a math problem into an actual "real world" problem I can grasp it.

I really have no general wish to "run" the business per say. My true goals are to have a business where I can develope parts to further improve the sport of off-roading. In the same way that I see marlin has done. I know that money runs the world, but truely that is the last thing on my mind. I want a degree that can help me with my goals. If that degree has the benefit making decent money then so be it. If i have to scrounge for money for a few years that is fine with me.

[robinhood4x4]

You should also go try posting your question on an engineering forum

www.eng-tips.com

[sam2145871 [OP]]

I took a look at that site...seems like a great site!(Unfortunatly it would take away from my time on here, lol) I'll definatley post something up there and see what they think.

Alright so I have a question...Of the people that work at marlin what do their degrees consist of?