Snow wheeling buggy project - planning

[cruzila]

I have been wanting to build a rig for a very long time now. I am finally starting to get serious about planning and part gathering. Well, I have been gathering parts for a couple years now, but I am ready to start.

I just got a Malvado chassis from a friend. I have a 14b for the rear and some D60 parts for the front. I had Marlin build me a 4 speed H42 and i have a Toybox for a splitcase setup. I also, have a 4.3 motor but now think 8 cylinders is my friend.

Couple questions:

1. Do I do an auto trans or stick with the manual?

2. What should I name it?

Scott

[cruzila]

This is going to be mainly built to be a snow wheeling machine. Tire size will be 42" min. More like 44-49" double beadlock VERY wide wheels.

[BigMike]

Those are the most lame questions I have ever heard for a project of this magnitude.

[FIREBALL]

1. Manual

2. My Mothra azz is freezin

[KYOTA]

nice chassi  

pardon my tardin but tube buggy for the snow and cruiser for summer? my yam sachel is shriveling just thinking about it

gonna be sweet though

[gotrocks]

cruizila  check out my buggy build and maybe you'll get some ideas from it. 

I say go auto.  I love my manual in my toyota but I really like having an auto in my buggy.  I am going to make mine all setup for snow wheeling as well.  Also I'd recommend doing a 4.3.  save some weight and do the v6.  I have 5.38's in mine and run 40's with no problem.  I've got lots of power and don't feel that running 44's would take up to much power.  I really like your chassis btw and looking forward to seeing another buggy on this board.

[cruzila]

Hmmmm....Mothra...........hey, didn't Mothra lose to Godzilla?

[cruzila]

The trans question is valid. If I was in Moab it is a no brainer. Rubicon, pretty much the same. There are about 5 people that I know that I consider experienced enough to answer the question. Desmond, Jimjob and Aggro being the top three.

I have witnessed Desmond wheeling in the snow with an auto and Aggro is going to switch to an auto I think. I am not totally convinced yet and now is the time to make the decision about it. I have redone cruzila SO many times I don't want to have to do that anymore.

I am thinking i need to go auto, but I have all the stuff right now and don't need to spend more money to put it together.

Eventually I will go to a 400 horse V8, so I am planning that into the build. 4.3 in not enough. That much i have witnessed..

[Hottrod81]

Definitely go with an automatic in the snow.  A manual can get you into trouble if you don't slip the clutch enough.  Also, I think you will be very happy with a Fuel Injected Small Block V8.  They are not that much heavier than a 4.3L V6 and the power will more than make up for the weight savings.  A nicely built 4 speed automatic will treat you well.

[chevyLUVtoyota]

id call it ...ICE MAN...or cold steel ...sumthin like that

[cruzila]

Definitely go with an automatic in the snow.  A manual can get you into trouble if you don't slip the clutch enough. 

I have been wheeling a manual in the snow since 1985 and I love it. I LIKE the direct throttle control it provides. Since the advent of gears, slipping the clutch is moot.

[Hottrod81]

Very true, but if you have tons of horsepower, you have to be more delicate with the clutch.

[cruzila]

I have foot like leaded feather

[gotrocks]

oh and if you go with a auto you can put a manual valve body in it like i have.  That way you have the best of both worlds without having to use the clutch.  I put a park lockout on mine so that I can hit reverse from drive and back

[freds40]

I just put an auto into my Cruiser and have had it out 4 times now. I'm sold, it's so nice wheeling an auto. The torque convertor makes each gear in the tranny extremely versatile. I really look forward to wheeling in the snow. The nice thing with the auto in the snow (as in drag racing) is you loose no forward momentum when shifting. Even the best power shifters are going to loose some forward momentum when shifting a manual.

For me, the fact that the shifts are fast and that the tranny can crawl as well as roast the hides in the same gear, make the auto great. 

For the motor, if you have a 4.3 already and are tight on cash, throw it in and just set it back from the radiator enough that a small block can later be dropped right in it's place. The motor mounts and bellhousing mount are in the exact same location, just 2 more cylinders up front on the 8. If you can afford a small block now, do it and be done. You can always add power to the motor later.

[freds40]

oh and if you go with a auto you can put a manual valve body in it like i have.  That way you have the best of both worlds without having to use the clutch.  I put a park lockout on mine so that I can hit reverse from drive and back

Did you do an aftermarket VB or did you get a kit and modify the stock unit? How are the shifts while under power? My VB is has a stage 2 kit and the shifts kick the truck pretty good. My TH400 is nice but I've been thinking of modding the VB for full manual.

[IronClad]

pretty much id do whatever aggro says.. he is the snow king lol   from my experience and what ive whitnessed. an auto is very hit and miss in the snow..  with a manual you can slowly let the clutch out and crawl it if you have to if you have the gears.  with the auto you gotta give it some gas  (depends all on stall and whatnot)     Oh.. and v8  especially if your gonna run 42's+   v8 is crazy awesome in the snow.

[cruzila]

It's all about Horsepower baby!!

[Willy Mammoth]

Freds40 already said what I was thinking, an auto will keep moving forward in a shift unlike a standard.

I too am thinking about going with an auto with my next engine swap.

All the horse power in the world won't doo much good if it isn't smooth in the shifts, especialy in a climb.

But what do I know, I'm just the 800 lb gorilla in the room.

[chevyLUVtoyota]

auto's take power away from you...but if your going with a V8 thin its ok i guess

[gotrocks]

Did you do an aftermarket VB or did you get a kit and modify the stock unit? How are the shifts while under power? My VB is has a stage 2 kit and the shifts kick the truck pretty good. My TH400 is nice but I've been thinking of modding the VB for full manual.

its just a shift kit with a manual VB conversion I guess.  I dunno I just bought the kit and had the tranny shop put it in.  Personally I think it rocks.  Shifts when I tell it to and stays in the gear I want it to.  It only cost me 250 bucks for parts and installation.  It doesn't really hesitate at all between shifts.  Really I've wheeled both and and they both have their place but in my buggy I think the auto is king.  Besides with 5.38 gears and a 4.3 Atlas I've got plenty of gearing.  Its funny when guys say GO V8 for the 42's..  How many guys do you see running 38-44's with a little 4cyl.  Its all about gearing.  We all know that.  Thats why for a buggy I think the V6 is a great little engine because your keeping the weight down and you don't really need it. 

do you see many guys in the rock crawling circuts running v8's??

[cruzila]

Not in the snow. You should know that. It is ALL horsepower. I don't care what gearing you have it won't push through Sierra Cement.

[Hottrod81]

I have seen plenty of V8's in the rock crawling circuit.

[gotrocks]

Not in the snow. You should know that. It is ALL horsepower. I don't care what gearing you have it won't push through Sierra Cement.

well where I'm from you don't see many rigs at all running v8's in the snow.  We all have 4cyl Toyota's with 38's.  If you can float up top there is not need to push all that snow.  Thats why I'm making the argument about saving weight.  The lighter you are in the snow the better you'll do.  It goes hand in hand with having wide tires.  You do that so that you have a wider footprint and have less pressure against the snow, right?   Thats why I'm saying that a v6 seems to work better because of the weight savings.  Hey don't get me wrong I love having that power but I just find it gets you in trouble because once you start to spin the tires it just digs you deeper requiring more horsepower to move the snow.  I can keep up with guys all day long in the snow with my little 22re pushing 38's and since I'm so light I can move right along and burn less gas.

[Snowrunner]

Another point to what Gotrocks said with the smaller lesser hp motors is how you can lug them with out spinning tires. To much power and istead of lugging and continuing your forward momentum you did. That just another reason I prefer the 4 banagers in the snow. My friend has a turbo 22re in his and from wheelin with him I also like what it does. Keep pushin till it starts to bogg then it boost under the load and finally itll start to lug down if it takes to much power.

[FIREBALL]

I ran a 22r forever in the snow and it worked great, but there were plenty of times when I really could have used more power. Times like a big hill climb or the snow conditions were such that lots of power was the only way to get through it (just like times where crawling is the only way). The big difference between a 4 banger and a V8 is, the V8 has the power when you need it, the 4 banger doesn't. You don't have to use all the throttle you have just like you don't have to wheel in 200:1 all the time.
Sometimes you've got to get them 44's spooled up quick and the V6 isn't gonna do it like a V8.
Personally, I still really like a manual in the snow. If you do get yourself in a hole, it's nice to be able rock forward and push in the clutch and roll back and keep doing that until you can rock yourself out of the hole.
If your running 42's or similar your not going to have to worry about the extra weight of the V8.

[Snowrunner]

I dont see the need for the power on a hill climb. Its just goin to spin the tires instead of lugging and gaining traction. For hill climbs its all about momentum before you hit the hill not when your on it. We just get up to speed tach it out and down shift if you need to. Also with the getting through it with power I dont see that either just goin to dig again. If we slow down or stop just back up and get a run at it and keep pushing. Ive pushed snow over my hood with my runner. I do agree with you though with the times where you can crawl things better. Ive acutally found depending on the snow I can out crawl some guys that are just in regular low just how the power is put to the ground better. The only time ive heard of power rulling in the snow was in a canadian 4x4 mag there was a snow wheelin article guys runnin big blocks and what not, but the thing was there smallest tire the canadia people were runnin was around 46 inches up to 56 I think in insane widths aired down to nothing. The people from the magazine had 44s and that was the smallest there. That to me is like up sizing the 4 banger and 38s if you get what im sayin. One of the golden rules that we go by is If you can move an inch you can move a mile. Thats why I like my 5 speed clutch and 22re for the power, movment, and rocking control. That just my 2 well more like 4 cents now lol.

[gotrocks]

haha we've got a pretty good discusion/argument going now.  Cruzila have you decided on what motor yet?

[cruzila]

Standby

[cruzila]

Ok I have decided or rather the buggy gods have decided. I ran into this for the right price.

It looks to be an L98 with a 700r4. I am still researching the numbers, but come up with a definite 87-95 iron block TPI motor.