Topic: Shuttle Launch

[Lady Di]

So far it's still on for today...

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/index.html

We can see it from our yard, it's not very big, but we can still see it. I'll try to get a picture.
Shuttle launches are cool, if we had the Mammoth ready for test drive I suggested we take a ride out closer, but it's not, so we won't.
Besides, nine times out of ten the initial launch time is scrubbed anyway.

[79coyotefrg]

 

[Duffil]

I followed your NASA link.  very cool stuff.  That rocks that you can see it from your house.

[Lady Di [OP]]

It always gives me chills seeing it. And it is tiny from here, the flame from the rockets might be 1/4" wide.
I would love to see it up close.

[Lady Di [OP]]

So far it appears the launch is still on but it is raining in our neighborhood so if it does go up we won't be able to see it.

[unclejpl4x4]

me watching will try not 2 pass out

[Lady Di [OP]]

It was scrubbed till tomorrow cause of weather.
I figured as much.
Oh hey, check this out, this is pretty cool (you have to have Flash)

http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/sts121_flash/index_noaccess.html

More interesting stuff for those that are into it...

http://www.nasa.gov/home/index.html

I love taking out-of-towners to Kennedy Space Center. Much to their dismay, I would rather go there then a theme park. wonder why we don't get many out-of-towners 

[Cheesemaker]

I wish I could get the chance to take my kids to see a launch!  My boys would love it, and I would too!

[Lady Di [OP]]

I would love to actually go the KSC for a launch but it's just so hard to know for sure when it will go up.
The best thing to do is to take a vacation around a launch date and get a hotel close by KSC so you can wait it out till it hopefully goes up. And then you can enjoy Cocoa Beach too.

[CTENG in KS]

Mmmm night launch is best!  Like a mini sun!

[Lady Di [OP]]

That would be so cool to see.

[unclejpl4x4]

they better hurry and get that bird in the air, well if they plan and saving the earth in time.

[CTENG in KS]

You been talking to Stephen Hawking again???  He ain't worried about savin the earth...he's worried about gettin it done before he dies.

[Lady Di [OP]]

OK, lets try again.
I've got good money on it not going up again.
It's scheduled for launch at 3:26 pm EST (of course).
There's a 30% chance of rain, it's overcast right now.

[abnormaltoy]

This post kind of takes me back...a long way. I went there in 64 or 65, took the tour and saw an amazing new item that would cook your food at the speed of light...a microwave oven. It was about the size of a stand alone oven today and had just enough room for a burger or two.

[Cheesemaker]

Mmmm night launch is best!  Like a mini sun!

Your not talking about Minisimp and his son??   
I like night launches too!   

[unclejpl4x4]

they just scrub the launch till tusday

[Lady Di [OP]]

Not surprised, we have a big storm over us now. Lets hope it's not the worlds biggest firework.

[Lady Di [OP]]

Your not talking about Minisimp and his son??   
I like night launches too!   

I saw on a news board that they no longer do night launches cause they want to be able to see any problems that happen during launch...particularly foam breaking off the external fuel tank.

[blackdiamond]

This is a tiny bit off topic, but it does relate to the Shuttles launch.

My guess is that very few of you know what I do for a living.  I am a structural engineer at a Navy shipyard that does maintenance on Navy ships.  Personally, I have only worked on submarines.  I have had the opportunity to work on both 688 Fast Attack and 726 Missile submarines.  I have also had the opportunity to tour a new 774 Virginia class sub and am just starting my first job on a 21 Sea Wolf class sub.

After the loss of the USS THRESHER on 9 April 1963, see the link below, the Navy started a program called SUBSAFE that imposes tight control on all boundaries and systems that either keep water out of the "people tank" or are directly related to getting the boat back to the surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)

What does this have to do with NASA?  The Navy and NASA are working together now to help NASA develop a better quality assurance program to avoid Shuttle losses.  The Navy has not lost a nuclear submarine that was SUBSAFE qualified (the USS SCORPION was not certified) since the program was initiated.  Submarines are Shuttles are likely the two most complex vehicles on the planet.

In the submarine world we are required to take the absolutely most conservative course of action all the time.  Nearly every system has backups built in.  Several top people have to sign their names to certify a boat and they are responsible if anything goes wrong.

In the shuttle world, they have not always taken the most conservative path.  The reason is something most people have either forgotten or never knew.  Shuttles are considered test vehicles and the astronauts are test pilots.  When they were designed they expected failures.  They have thousands of Flight Level 1 Critical systems that have no backup and if they fail the Shuttle is doomed.  The mindset changed about the time of the Challenger when they started sending "normal" people into space, but the reality is that nothing in the design has changed.

A few weeks ago I was involved in a NAVSEA internal audit where a team of shipyard employees spends a week reviewing SUBSAFE work and looking for errors.  This is interesting because we are writing audit "cards" against our bosses and co-workers.  This type of audit is followed up by an external NAVSEA audit where people from outside of the shipyard perform another audit.  I was on the NAVSEA team that audited the SSN 776 at Electric Boat, for perspective, this is the government auditing a private company.  It is the only industry on earth that has an audit process of this level.  On the latest audit was I talking to the #2 SUBSAFE Director in my shipyard and learned something interesting.

He said that the NASA engineers, "Had no balls."  His reason is that they recommended against the currently pending launch, but did not use the "veto" right that they have to stop any launch.  In the submarine world this would never happen, but again the purpose and design of the two vehicles are completely different.

Personally I think that NASA needs to realize that space travel may require losses and the the test pilots make the choice if they want to go or not.

[Lady Di [OP]]

So you are saying that they should not have scrubbed the last two potential launch times just because they would be flying into storms with the threat of lightning?
They don't only have to worry about taking off, they have to worry about an immediate emergency landing on the KSC landing strip if that were to ever to be necessary. (it hasn't yet, but it could)
If they can't see the landing strip due to the storm they took off in they are out of luck.
It's not like yesterday or today were their last options. I could see if they were down to their last window of opportunity and then maybe taking a great risk, but until they have no options left why rush it?

[blackdiamond]

So you are saying that they should not have scrubbed the last two potential launch times just because they would be flying into storms with the threat of lightning?
They don't only have to worry about taking off, they have to worry about an immediate emergency landing on the KSC landing strip if that were to ever to be necessary. (it hasn't yet, but it could)
If they can't see the landing strip due to the storm they took off in they are shirt out of luck.
It's not like yesterday or today were their last options. I could see if they were down to their last window of opportunity and then maybe taking a great risk, but until they have no options left why rush it?

I have no problem using common sense and delaying launches for weather problems, what I am against is delaying launches in an effort to make the shuttle perfectly "safe" for operation.  I doubt space travel will ever be an everday mode of travel.  People needs to realize that space travel is similar to a war in that losses are going to happen. 

[Lady Di [OP]]

I have no problem using common sense and delaying launches for weather problems, what I am against is delaying launches in an effort to make the shuttle perfectly "safe" for operation.  I doubt space travel will ever be an everday mode of travel.  People needs to realize that space travel is similar to a war in that losses are going to happen. 

I totally agree.
I think the big problem is though, you won't get funding taken away if you have a submarine disaster but after Challenger and the more recent reentry disaster, they could very well pull the rug out from under NASA or at least the shuttles, if another major disaster were to happen.
The general public doesn't get it, and would see it as an unnecessary expense of life because of NASA's negligence. They do believe that the shuttle should be failsafe.

[Lady Di [OP]]

Lets give it another shot!  GIT'R DUN!

[Lady Di [OP]]

Well, it made it up! It was really cloudy here, so we didn't get to see it for long.
We had forgetten where about in the sky to look for it so the video didn't turn out so hot, (pretty well sucks actually) but here are, for your viewing pleasure, the shuttle from the Mammoths yard.

(easiest to view if you right-click and save target)

http://www.mhdfl.com/Videos/Shuttle.wmv

[unclejpl4x4]

lol i think the vid was good as far as seeing it. well when the camra wasent shaking and pionted at nothing that is

[Lady Di [OP]]

Yeah, stupid thing was I put the camera on the tri-pod so I could zoom in on it, and that was why it was shaking, I was trying to adjust the stupid thing!
I would have been better off just holding it by hand