Topic: Battle of the Cheap Welders!

[CTENG in KS]

My new cheap welder came today, so I of course will be doing a full on review and comparison of the two cheapest welders on the planet.   So without further ado:

In this corner:
Wearing the blue wanna-be Miller case, weighing in at slightly more than a bread box - the esteemed Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 90 amp Flux Core Welder!!!!!!!......
Specs:
-90 Amps max, 10% duty cycle at 87 amps (max setting)
-Two settings, high and low.
-Infinite wire control
-flux core only 0.030" or 0.035".
-on/off switch: wire is always "hot".
-110V on a 16A fuse.
-Cost on sale: $110.00

[MiniSimp]

Should be really good at welding body panels.

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

And the Challenger:
Wearing the..slightly lighter blue case, weighing in at a bowel movement heavier than our champion- the Clarke 130 EN MIG Welder.
Specs:
-130 Amps max, 20% duty cycle at max power, 30% D-C at 80% power
-4 heat settings
-Infinite wire control
-Flux core with option of gas if regulator added
-Wire is only hot when triggered,
-110V, recomended 20-25A fuse
-Cost on special, $270.00

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Should be really good at welding body panels.

First off Mini, don't post till Im done!  Second, I have built everything on my truck with that welder.

[MiniSimp]

Ok, I'll wait.

[jimbo74]

which model is the hf welder? i have one, but havent seen the same one i have locally in the stores, jsut the model slightly below it... mine is the mig 101 i beleive......

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Chapter One: The First Impression

HF:  The HF welder is fairly small and light, looking inside it is very simple and you can tell it is not made from the highest quality of materials, but all in all it is not bad considering the super low price.  It is relatively easy to load the wire and there aren't too many settings to play with so you can pretty much pick one up and start welding immediatly.  It requires minor assembly of the case, but thats it...you will note from pictures on the HF website that it comes with a face shield that is good for little more than an observer.  The gun is a simple design, I have no idea where to get parts for it, it is all plastic except for the end tube and cup.  The wire liner is about a 1/16th thick wall plastic tube that is very easy on the wire, but may be subject to short lifespan if the unit is abused.  There is no fan on this unit, it is cooled by ambient air, I would leave a side of the case off in my warm garage to help bleed heat faster.

Clarke:  This unit is considerably larger than the HF box, possibly due to the internal fan.  Initial inspection shows slightly better quality parts, although certainly only at the level $300 buys you.  The feeder mechanism is beefier, but one thing off the bat I like less about the Clarke is that the wire sits vertically loaded on the side, while the HF loaded horizontally on the top.  This may prove to be a better setup later on though, as I have not yet tried this new welder out.  The gun seems to be of better construction, at least the handle is heavier duty plastic, although it is just that - heavier.  The wire liner is a plastic tube much like that in the HF model.  Once again, there are few possible adjustments, just two aditional settings compared with the HF, so this is pretty plug and play.  Overall, slightly better construction than the HF, as I would expect with the price increase, but also a considerable increase in overall weight, which will prob prove a pain as I get tired.  This welder will probably benefit from the convenience of a cart, whereas the HF is so small the cart just isn't necessary.

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

which model is the hf welder? i have one, but havent seen the same one i have locally in the stores, jsut the model slightly below it... mine is the mig 101 i beleive......

The HF model in question is the 90 amp Flux-only:

[DTB]

so did u buy 2 new welders then? r u going to return the one u don't want?

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Chapter 2: Performance of the HF Welder

When looking for a small, cheap 110V welder, the first question is always: What thickness will this be able to penetrate?  If you are looking to weld 1/4 inch all day, this is NOT the welder for you.  It is rated up to 3/16", however, the actual results will vary with respect to the quality of prep work.  Can this welder be used on 1/4 inch effectively?  Yes.  If you clean the weld area, chamfer the edges, and probably weld front and back, you can get a good strong weld in 1/4 inch.  For more common 1/8 - 3/16" we use on our trucks, this welder will give good penetration, but once again, prep work will be crucial as rust and grime will make it difficult to even strike a good arc.
One drawback to a cheap welder such as this is the cheap components result in a low duty cycle.  You can run a few beads, but when welding thicker material, it is possible to hit the thermal cut-off and the welder will go dead.  You will then have to wait for it to cool down before using it again.  If you are good at managing your time you can avoid this problem.  I tried to cut a few pieces and weld them, then allow the welder to rest while I cut a couple more, or do half your time with the welder, the other half on a different project.  Point being that, the short duty cycle can be a constraint, but you can work around it and still be pretty efficient with this welder.
Another issue in question: can you make good looking welds or will they all be boogered, slag messes?  Like anything else it takes some practice, but yes, you can make some pretty good looking welds.  These were done with 0.030" flux core on 1/8" plate, they look decent, and I am by no means a pro.  I have no doubt that better welds can be had with this machine.

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

so did u buy 2 new welders then? r u going to return the one u don't want?

You don't follow my other thread very close do you now?  I thought reading it was your hobby??
I have had the HF for a little over a year.

[DTB]

  I thought maybe it blew up or something..... I thought it looked like the same one. Remember, I am a little slow at times. actually, most of the time 

[jimbo74]

that welder looks somewhat like mine, however not exactly....



easy mig 101/1

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Chapter 2 cont:

This is a butt weld using the same 0.030" flux core and 1/8" wall square tube:

One thing you will notice with this welder is that it is very sensitive to the quality of wire used.  I first started out with a couple spools of whatever wire HF sells.  About 6 months into owning this welder I switched to some 0.030 Lincoln Electric flux core wire.  This wire burned MUCH cleaner and hotter.  Lesson here is that even if you only want to spend the money for a cheapy welder, don't skimp on consumables.

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

that welder looks somewhat like mine, however not exactly....


easy mig 101/1

Kool, hey, if you have any pics of good welds you did with the little HF feel free to add them in here, I want to get a good thorough review of the cheap welders for those that come after us.

[DTB]

Kool, hey, if you have any pics of good welds you did with the little HF feel free to add them in here, I want to get a good thorough review of the cheap welders for those that come after us.

  I still say someone needs to start a prettiest weld poll thread 

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

I am adding this from toyoder from a while ago in the "flux core" thread...this was done with an HF flux machine...

[jimbo74]

all of mine looked like crap. but were quite thorough deep down, i basically used mine for sheetmetal stuff on my old truck.... the welds did hold a windshield frame of a jeep onto the fenders of an explorer though, and held it fine with no problems even @ 90 mph.......

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Chapter 3: Performance of the Clarke

I got to try out the Clarke this afternoon.  It came with a roll of 0.035 flux core in it so I started out with that.  There are a few more plastic goodies to screw on the case than the HF, but two of them are feet that elevate the unit to open up vents on the bottom of the case.  The fan is constantly on to help keep temps down.  I was wrong initially, the liner isn't just a platic tube, it is wrapped in a coil much like the Hobart replacements I have seen at TSC.  It threaded flawlessly the first time.  Then it was time to run a bead.  As a starting point, I set the heat on 3, the closest to the HF max output I was used to, and I set the wire speed on 7 like I was used to on the HF.  The welder arced in spits and starts.  Boogers everywhere.  Turns out this welder fires out the wire MUCH faster than the HF.  A 4 setting is just about the 7-8 I was used to.  Here are some pictures...was pretty rough the first few beads, just needed patient adjustment.

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Yes, the snot in the background of the picture above was one of the first "attempts."  This last one on the near end I had finally gotten the wire speed dialed down and turned the heat setting up to max:

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Once I had it feeding the way it should, I decided to set up a couple light brackets on my front bumper and run a couple beads.  I left the settings on high heat and around a 4 wire speed.  This was some 3/16 plate steel with decent prep work.  Straight butt weld.  I would estimate I got penetration to abut half the thickness, I think that with chamfered edges and a slower wire speed so I could slow down and stitch the V-notch, I would have no trouble penetrating the entire thickness.  This only has to hold a 6-inch light, though:

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

The cup on this gun is fairly wide, likely because it is set up for gas as well as flux core.  I am finding that this makes it difficult to see the bead as I go.  I kept wandering off the straight and narrow.  Hopefully if I am in a better position and I can watch from the side I will be more accurate.  I ran a second bead on the opposite side bracket, this time left-handed.  So far this welder seems to be of better make than the HF and putting out quite a bit more juice.

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

One other thing I have noticed is that I do not like the ground clamp on the Clarke.  The one on the right in the picture is the HF clamp, light, easy to squeeze, just enough clamping power to hold a small peice as you tack it.  The Clarke clamp on the other hand has an odd outer rim and a pretty heavy duty spring.  It just doesn't seem to be as versitile in terms of positioning.  One plus, however, the Clarke clamp can be changed with one screw, the HF is hardwired on.

[abnormaltoy]

First off Mini, don't post till Im done!  Second, I have built everything on my truck with that welder.

 

  I still say someone needs to start a prettiest weld poll thread 

Why? I'd lose big time. My welds aren't pretty, but they're functional!

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

Mine aren't really too rpetty either, I weave around like a drunken sailor.

[abnormaltoy]

Mine aren't really too rpetty either, I weave around like a drunken sailor.

I've got Katherine Hepburn syndrome!!! I can weld pretty fair with my right hand, but my left one shakes like a junky trying to dry out!

[kyle_22r]

i've found the biggest problem with my HF welder is that it likes to lurch the wire.  the wire stops and goes because it slides on the rollers and ends up in a frustrated welder and crappy weld

also the stinger and ground are both painfully short -- not bad if you're building a little project but real pain if you want some versatility.  that said, it still did the job on my hysteer install.

i'm considering saving up for a miller 135 or similar welder -- if for nothing else, the nice reliability, and the ability to use gas for stuff like body panels!

[CTENG in KS [OP]]

I never had that issue.  I usually kept the the rollers cranked down pretty tight.  Never bothered by the length of the cables either, the welder is so small I just moved it to wherever I was working.  On thing the is necessary is a long enough extension cord.  I have a reasonable 14G e-cord that made moving the welder easier.  So far I am liking the Clarke unit.  Especially for the money, it really is quite a step up in power, quality, and versatility.  I;m sure Miller/Lincoln/Hobart would be an even better machine, but let me get some more time in witht he Clarke and I will let you know how it does.

Oh, here is a thought, on the HF, disassemble the gun, takes about 1 minute...inside the liner near the bottom of the handle is a fiber wire cleaner.  Ive found the wire does NOT like passing through this fiberous crap easily.  I yanked mine out and it fed MUCH better.  Might help you out.

[kyle_22r]

hmm, might have to give that a shot!  i'm burned out on working on trucks for quite a while, time to do some fishing!

[RustyToy]

I welded in new floor boards with my hf welder. Took about 4 hours and a whole spool, but hey. I think it did bad things to the welder tho cause it didn't work for about 3 months after. One day out of the blue I grabbed it to weld the bottom weld of my steering box plate and it lay ed down almost as good of a weld as my arch welder.