Topic: Questions about Propane Injection on cummins 5.9 with direct injection

[Willy Mammoth]

I am interested in adding propane injection on the LBC (motor home) and want to see if anybody has any info on this.

It has a Cummins 5.9 diesel with an injection pump (no electronics) I think it is a 6BT but could be wrong.

[alwayzbroken]

I think there was an article about that in this month's Diesel Power magazine.

[reklund5]

Mr Willy-

A good friend of mine has a propane injection setup on his 6BT powered Dodge truck.  He works for a local propane supply place, and pretty much fabbed up the kit himself.  I'll see if I can round up some pictures and more information for you.  From what he says, it added quite a bit of power, reduced the smoke, and lowered the EGT's considerably.

His setup uses a heat exchanger to vaporize the LP, and it is injected pre-turbo depending on throttle position and a dash-mounted activation switch.  He's using a 10# cylinder mounted in the bed of the truck, but you could easily tie in to the LP system inthe LBC. 

You can also find TONS of info on the Cummins motor at www.oilburners.net and at the Turbo Diesel Register.  TDR requires a paid membership for any good info though.  there are also substantial gains to be had with some simple exhaust work, fuel injection pump mods, and fuel injectors.  I'll do some reading and see what I can find.  See if you can read the engine data plate mounted near the Injection Pump, so we know what calibraton your engine is at, and what HP/Torque it's configured for.

Ryan

[Willy Mammoth [OP]]

Thanks,

I will look for the data and I plan on using the 45 gal tank that runs the generator and other stuff.

Only need a little boost for the hills and take off. Maybe a small amount to help with fuel mileage.

[freds40]

LPG on diesels has been around for a while now. Problem is it has to be watched on earlier trucks that aer not computer controlled. Many say that it is good most of the time, but if you don't pay attention, it can wreak havok on your motor. When loaded heavily, it can cause the motor to detonate and kill piston rings and even the pistons themselves. Many have made the system work but I feel there are better ways to get a little boost out of your Cummins. I have a '97 ram with a bombed cummins and I have my cruiser that I run on LPG. I will NOT put the LPG on my Dodge. BTW, the "gain" in diesel mileage is just that. You might get a mile or 2 better mileage out of the good ol #2, but now you have to add in the cost of your LPG. Most say thet when you factor them together, you don't really see a significant gain.
 Have you looked into water/meth injection? Meth will give your motor more power, a bit more boost, and will cool your EGTs on the long uphill pulls. Also, windshield washer fluid (some are (97% meth) is usually easier to get ahold of than LPG on those cross country trips. 
 Also, if you do have a 6BT, you can bump the power considerably for minimal input (300 RWHP for about $500) and that never has to be refilled. 

[854RUN]

heres a link to bully dogs propane injection for cummins. I was watch truck TV over the weekend and they put Bullydogs: 1) Triple-Dog Programmer, 2) Propane & Nitrous Injection, 3) Outlook Monitor, 4) Hi-flow Diesel Injectors, 4) 4-in dual exhaust, 5) Rapid Flow Induction. They got like 850hp and flat lined the the torch on the Dino at 1200 ft lb  http://www.bullydog.com/index.php?customernumber=777212350573672&pr=ef7da766d7&thiscat=104&=SID

[RockSlayer]

You can boost the Cummins 6BT a substantial amount. If you are friendly enough with the Cummins parts counter guy, you can get 350hp marine application injectors, have your Bosch in-line pump turned up. In stock for each squirt of the pump should be around 130 cc's of fuel. One of my mechanics had his turned up to 530 cc's. That was as far as he could go with his pump. Some pumps can go to 880 cc's. With all that fuel, you need a bigger turbo, and they are pretty interchangeable. You need to make room for a bigger turbo, but one from an 400hp Cummings M11 worked for my buddy. He could have gone a little bigger, he was still smoking a bunch. (over fueling) With those changes, and an open 5 inch exhaust, he put 550 hp to the rear wheels, and 1050 lb ft of torque on the chassis dyno at Cummins. His boost was around 50 psi when he was really working it. I have been told you can go to 55 psi before you need to worry about the head gasket.

For a small boost, you could get your pump turned up, and upgrade your turbo to something bigger, and that would keep you EGT down with the added power.

[Willy Mammoth [OP]]

Ok I found the data plate under the compressor and had to remove it to see what it had on it.

Here is a link to the scaned picture. It's big so beware. http://www.mhdfl.com/forum/images/data%20plate.jpg

It says it has 230 hp at 2500 rpm, but I can't make out what model it is other than a 403B.

[RockSlayer]

The key information on that tag is:

1) engine serial number - 44629946

2) CPL number - 987

3) Fuel rate - 104 cubic millimeter/stroke

4) engine model - B5.9-230

That information, will get you this information,

It is a bus engine, the most you can go with those components is 250 HP by changing the pump "button" (The pump cam has to do with injector timing and speed governor.) 

If you want to go crazy  you can get up to a 1000 hp with pump, piston, injector, turbo, connecting rods and crank change.

You could get 500 HP reliably by recalabrating the pump, and bigger turbo to keep the exhaust temp down. Most people find that by turning up there engine, they actually get better fuel millage because they can stay in the tall gears.

I wish I had experience with the propane to have an educated opinion, but I don't.

[Willy Mammoth [OP]]

Thanks, I wish I could just trade it in on a newer one with a 500 hp Cat engine and a 6 spd Alison, but that would cost twice what my house is worth.

[ctdellerman]

I would stay away from Propane on a Diesel that is used for anything other than drag racing.  Propane greatly increases your chances of blowing your head gasket in stock form.  Injectors, modifying your injection pump and a bigger turbo are the direction you would want to go.  Eric

[red]

I would stay away from Propane on a Diesel that is used for anything other than drag racing.  Propane greatly increases your chances of blowing your head gasket in stock form.  Injectors, modifying your injection pump and a bigger turbo are the direction you would want to go.  Eric

propane is more for very short boosts (like if u are trying to pull a buddy outta the mud and need that xtra power), for long term power, and without the possibility of damage (far less likely to happen on newer engines than older ones) i'd stick with turbo upgrades, injectors, and a 4 inch exhaust. contact banks engineering, they will have what u need.

[reklund5]

Haven't forgotten about you Mark!  Soon as I get a chance, I'll get those pictures...

Check into a bullydog system in the meantime, I think thats similar to what my friend is running...

Ryan

[red]

i dont know of any other company that sells a propane injection setup besides bullydog.
what kinda power do u get from that methanol injection? from windshield washer fluid.

[ctdellerman]

ATS also makes propane injection kits.  Xtremediesel.com sells them for some of the best prices.  As far as Banks, lets just say that in the Diesel world their stuff is far overpriced and their claims are a little bit of a stretch.  They do have nice exhaust, but for twice as much as other companies I wouldn't say it's worth it.

[freds40]

Theres a few companies out there making LPG kits for diesels. Heck, I think JC Whitney even has a "1 kit fits all" setup. Again, I don't see propane as your best bet. If you are looking for a fluid adder setup, I'd definately go Meth. Read up on Snow Performance for their Meth kit. Matt is extremely knowledgable and his kits are very well put together. Otherwise, I'd look into a fuel plate and maybe a different turbo housing.