Author Topic: 85 22RE buildup questions (Read 4479 times)

Volcom · « **on:** Dec 02, 2005, 08:38:21 AM »

OK, here’s the story. I picked up an 85 4Runner yesterday for $375. It’s got 258K on the clock. The engine isn’t running. The previous owner said he thinks it’s a warped head and something with the timing chain. So, a full rebuild is in the future (my first time rebuilding an engine). Here’s a couple hundred questions.

-Head-
How hard is it to warp a 22RE head? Hopefully, it’s just a head gasket. What do machine shops do to check for a bad head? With that much mileage on the head, would it be better to rebuild the head with new valves and springs? Or should I replace it with an aftermarket head? I don’t want to spend a complete fortune on this motor. It’s just going into a weekend rockcrawler. I saw that engnbldr has aftermarket heads for the 22RE ( http://engnbldr.com/HeadShop.htm ). Would something like that work out or would a stock head be just fine?

-Cam-
Should I pony up the $80 for an engnbldr cam? If so, which one? I plan on driving this 4Runner to all the trails here in Colorado and making trips to Moab once or twice a year. I’m going to need all the engine I can get to get this trail rig over some of the big mountain passes here in CO. With that said, which cam would be better suited for me? The “crawler” cam or the daily driver cam? This 4Runner will be fully loaded down and probably have an exo cage on it in the future.

-Rebuild Kit-
I plan on using engnbldr’s master engine kit (http://engnbldr.com/ToyotaHotLicks.htm). I know I need to make sure that I use steel guides for the timing chain. His kit says “timing chain set ( OUR engnbldr steel rail kit”. Does that mean those are steel guides? I just want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row when I build this thing.

-Machine Work-
What’s the range of prices that I should be looking into to get my block and possibly head machined and back into shape? What exactly do they do to the block at the machine shop? How about the head?

Would buying a short block already machined and built cost less than having my stuff machined and me build it? It looks like I can get a short block for $650 with a 2 year warranty and unlimited mileage. Is that a decent deal?

-Other Stuff-
Head Gasket, any suggestions? Do I need to spring for ARP head bolts or would stock ones work just fine?

What else wears out on a 258K engine? Anything EFI related that I need to address? Injectors? I’m new to the EFI 22RE world. I’ve dealt with the 22R on my two other Toyotas.

Sorry for the hundred questions

toyo487 · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 02, 2005, 02:00:08 PM »

I purchased an enginbldr rebuild kit and some of the components were ok. I got the street cam and it really didn't help out much at all, (just a little low end torque) I'd go with the bigger cam. STAY AWAY FROM THERE STEEL TIMMING CHAIN KIT. I used two of these is two different toyota's and had problems with both. I ended up replacing them with a differet brand. The chain would actually hit the bolts causing my engine to sound like a deisel, after replacing his timming chain kit with a PCI kit. (I purchase this kit at a local machine shop for 55 dollars.) The noise went away. His prices are decent but check your local machine shop they may be able to sell you all the stuff you need for the same price. Anyway that is just my

good luck with your engine build

Duffil · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 02, 2005, 02:35:11 PM »

IIRC, LC has a timing chain guide kit as well. As far as a cam, I like the Clevite cam I've got. Basically a stage 2. Part # 229-2293. .416/.430 lift with 214*/224* durations. I think we had a thread on that....

Duffil · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 02, 2005, 02:36:32 PM »

here ya go:
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=11000.0

Phazertwo · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 06, 2005, 08:53:18 PM »

I am doing the same sorta thing. I have read the cam thread, but I have a question, and I don't want to bring that thread back from the dead, so I will just post it here.

I can remember reading somwehre that the 22r and 22RE cams were different because the 22r had a cam driven fuel pump. Are these cams interchangeable? I would like to go to a stage II LCengeineering cam, like this one http://www.toyotacatalog.net/m1webgear/ProductDetails.aspx?PartID=1022036&PartRevisionID=

But it doesn't say EFI like some of the other ones in the same catagorey. http://www.toyotacatalog.net/m1webgear/ProductSearch.aspx?Class=1322.

TIA
PZ

Duffil · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 06, 2005, 08:55:42 PM »

R and RE cams are the same, the eccentric for the fuel pump slides on the front of the cam, just before the cam gear.

Phazertwo · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 06, 2005, 09:28:30 PM »

sweet, thats what I thought, i just didn't want to be left with a usless cam and be out $175

once again, you guys rock!
PZ

MiniSimp · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 06, 2005, 09:31:26 PM »

Just find another cheap, or totaled truck, swap everything, save a fortune and time.

Phazertwo · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 06, 2005, 10:05:06 PM »

finding a totaled truck in CO is like a needle in a haystack. I found this truck (85 22r, siezed) for only $500, and I got a blown 22re, and harness with eveything for $300. The reason i took this prioject is so that I personaly could do it all. I want to rebuild the eingine, and re wire the truck. However after driving a checy 5.7 for along time, this engine is going to feel very week, so I have deceid to beef it up a little bit. 4 runner ricks write up on the 7MG gave me some ideas, but they were quickly put to snuff by the price. I am working on a limited budget (sold my 93 wrangerl, paid some bills, and tutions,and the rest is for my truck).

I really wish i lived on the west coast... yota stuff seems much cheaper there.

PZ

Volcom · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 07, 2005, 07:39:49 AM »

Where at in CO are you? I'm in Pueblo, south of most everybody

Finding clean Toyotas here is pretty tough. Most people that have them have driven them pretty hard. That's why I'm kinda going the junky route. I've bought two 4Runners that have bad motors. My 84 is in decent condition but my recently purchased 85 is pretty beat. I wish I didn't have to swap the engine and wiring over from the 85 to the 84 but I have a feeling that the 85 (salvage title) might have some hidden damage that I'm not aware of.

Ok, back to the cam questions, is it really worth it to purchase a cam (either the engbldr or the LC) for these 22RE engines? Do they really help the drivablity of them to the trails and up the mountain passes? I plan on running a new exhaust system as well. A good buddy of mine owns his own shop. What size piping does everybody suggest? 2.25?

I have found a place in Colorado springs that has 22RE short blocks for $650. Is that a good deal?

Phazertwo · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 07, 2005, 09:36:24 AM »

I liive near boulder. Sounds like we are making the same swap. Except I am going from a 8522r to a 85 22re, but they should be VERY much the same.

$650 is the best I have seen, and I have been looking, but I have decied to rebuild mine so I know whats in it.

From that thread, it sounded like the LC cam made a bigger difference than anything else, so thats the route that I am going to go. Should I get new pistons too? THe ones I have are fine, a little dirty ontop, but they are fine. Would I get any more power if i got a different piston?

HOW ELSE CAN YOU GET POWER FROM A 22RE?

thanks
PZ

kyle_22r · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 07, 2005, 10:15:38 AM »

Quote from: toyo487 on Dec 02, 2005, 02:00:08 PM

I purchased an enginbldr rebuild kit and some of the components were ok. I got the street cam and it really didn't help out much at all, (just a little low end torque) I'd go with the bigger cam. STAY AWAY FROM THERE STEEL TIMMING CHAIN KIT. I used two of these is two different toyota's and had problems with both. I ended up replacing them with a differet brand. The chain would actually hit the bolts causing my engine to sound like a deisel, after replacing his timming chain kit with a PCI kit. (I purchase this kit at a local machine shop for 55 dollars.) The noise went away. His prices are decent but check your local machine shop they may be able to sell you all the stuff you need for the same price. Anyway that is just my
good luck with your engine build

hey, ever see stock t-chain guide bolts? odds are they're chewed up too! it's just a little issue that they all have -- every one of my engines that i've torn apart had half the bolt chewed on.

toyo487 · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 07, 2005, 01:42:51 PM »

I have never had that happen, exept for the kit from enginbldr. Like I say it was way loud. I had 3 mechanics look at it and say that it was way to loud and it needed to be fixed. Like I said all the stock timing chain bolts with the plastic guides that I have seen are just fine. For the cam question I'd say put a cam in it. you will have more power out of your 22R or 22re.

yotacrawler4 · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 08, 2005, 09:03:15 AM »

Quote from: Phazertwo on Dec 07, 2005, 09:36:24 AM

I liive near boulder. Sounds like we are making the same swap. Except I am going from a 8522r to a 85 22re, but they should be VERY much the same.

$650 is the best I have seen, and I have been looking, but I have decied to rebuild mine so I know whats in it.

From that thread, it sounded like the LC cam made a bigger difference than anything else, so thats the route that I am going to go. Should I get new pistons too? THe ones I have are fine, a little dirty ontop, but they are fine. Would I get any more power if i got a different piston?

HOW ELSE CAN YOU GET POWER FROM A 22RE?

thanks
PZ

Quote
Get your head done awesome, i would het a TRD stage two for 160 from toyota awesome cams, w\then get lc oversized valves, then get ARP rods and bolts for the bottom end, then Balance the whole bottom end thats what is key on yotas, but if you get all the head done awesome, like port polishing, the valve and bigger cam then thats where you get power form these , its all in the head

Phazertwo · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 09, 2005, 12:21:05 AM »

YOTACRAWLER4

EDIT that and make it so its not part of the quote so I can read it easyer please

kyle_22r · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 10, 2005, 09:22:01 AM »

i'll tell you what you don't need to do on a non-turbo engine...

you won't need aftermarket rods(stock are forged and very stout), main studs, head studs, etc.

the best investment you can make on one of these engines is good port work and a good exhaust. as for the exhaust, if it's an '85-95 engine it's already set up like a good tri-y header. the '84-down engines had a junk exhaust manifold though, so those are best replaced with a header. however in '85 toyota started using a manifold that'll actually improve performance -- just get your pipe where the 2 join up replaced with a 2" or 2.25" pipe all the way back.

Volcom · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 10, 2005, 09:30:02 AM »

Thanks for all the replies! There's some great info in this thread and I hope future people searching will find it!

Phazertwo · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 11, 2005, 08:45:35 PM »

Quote from: kyle_22r on Dec 10, 2005, 09:22:01 AM

i'll tell you what you don't need to do on a non-turbo engine...

you won't need aftermarket rods(stock are forged and very stout), main studs, head studs, etc.

the best investment you can make on one of these engines is good port work and a good exhaust. as for the exhaust, if it's an '85-95 engine it's already set up like a good tri-y header. the '84-down engines had a junk exhaust manifold though, so those are best replaced with a header. however in '85 toyota started using a manifold that'll actually improve performance -- just get your pipe where the 2 join up replaced with a 2" or 2.25" pipe all the way back.

You wouldn't sugest a cam?

Another ?. Is the power gaind from the bigger valves gunna be noticeable? I would imagin a machine shop will charge more if you have them install them right?
THANKS
PZ

kyle_22r · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 07:32:52 PM »

i'd suggest a cam, mainly because the odds are the one that's in it is pretty much worn out. these engines do best with the milder cams -- the really radical stuff doesn't really give a ton of improvement in power over them, and only sacrifices driveability.

the power gain from bigger valves is mainly going to be at the top end, though the charge of air that comes in when the valve first cracks open will get more air/fuel to the cylinder(sort of like the splash of water you get out of a garden hose if you take your finger off it, then it starts to flow more slowly). a good investment in my book, and machine shops usually don't charge too much to put valves in as long as you don't need the seats replaced(most 20R/22R oversized valves can use the stock seats, they just need ot be cut)

you definitely want the machine shop to put them in, as the seats must be machined. it's not just like lapping a new stock size set of valves in.

Phazertwo · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 10:09:52 PM »

I as planning on having a machine shop put the valves in. I have been looking at LC engineering's web site, and they have some slighly larger valves, and some that seem quite a bit larger (like 3mm larger than stock.) What should i be looking for the 48mm or the 45.5mm?

jimbo74 · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 10:13:04 PM »

dont forget to check out www.engnbldr.com

Phazertwo · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 13, 2005, 10:32:50 PM »

hmmmm they seem to have good prices, but i can't seem to find sizes on the valves, just different kinds... Heard that their cam isn't as good as LC's too.

Volcom [OP]

Volcom [OP]

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