Topic: Driver's License for Illeagal aliens !!! :shocking:

[KYOTA]

this might be a good spot for this
*warning*  F bomb


http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Tonk

[iNfErNaL]

Nope.  This is a "hot topic" in the US here lately I find the dicussion of it informative as to the views of the board.

Last I checked you (Infernal Jeep) had not been elected as the official representative of the hispanic culture to the US.  You repeatedly say that you are done with this topic yet you keep posting to it.  Interesting.

Its really a simple matter.  If you dont like the subject, dont read it.  You dont see me complaining about the bible verse thread do you?  Even though Im not a bible thumper and I dont care to read about that subject matter I dont complain about it because I simply do not read it. 

Yup,you're right,I haven't been elected as the official representative of the hispanic culture,nor do I care to be.This whole BS started because someone said we should shoot all illegals(pretty much).I keep posting on it because My name seems to be coming up on the posts,like your reply.Bottom line,I'm done argueing.No more.If YOU(white trash) want to continue argueing,than that's cool too.PM me,and let me know what's up.I wont be looking @ this thread anymore.

[BigMike]

Press one for English, Press two for Spanish......



Well where's the "Press 3 so we can teach you how to learn ENGLISH" option?!

I wrote that because that's actually from Larry the Cable guy and I thought it was a fitting comical relief.

Geeze, well here I go jumping on this wagon

So Mike,what about Vietnamese,Korean,Sirian,all those other languages?.That's what I'm trying to get @...It's that eveytime someone says Illegal,everyone automatically looks at Hispanics.

You know that is a good point, and I would complain too if those languages were as prominent as Spanish is.

But you know what? I live in California, which is originally a hispanic area, + it's right off the border of Mexico, so I can completely understand why there is so much Spanish.

In fact, two days ago I was at Sea World in San Diego, and on every ride they had both English and Spanish instructions, and on every TV screen they had Spanish subtitling.

I can understand if Mexican tourists are visiting the American city of San Diego, but then what about the German tourists? Japanese tourists? Chinese tourists? If all of those languages were also represented then it would be fair and I wouldn't have any problem with it.

It's funny because my girlfriend is Japanese, and we were just talking about how different languages are being spoken here in the US.

In fact, her, and many of her Japanese friends, all took their California drivers license test using a Japanese drivers license test exam. And I am against this!!!

I think that if you want to live in America, then you need to speak English. If I went to Japan and only spoke English, I know I will not get the same treatment as someone else who speaks fluent Japanese. Plus I would NEVER expect for Japan to alter their society just so that I can get by without needing to learn Japanese, regardless of what language I speak. (I know English is provided in some places in Japan, read below a bit, but that's not my point. I could speak Shyriiwook and I shouldn't expect Japan to start printing material in Shyriiwookian just for me)

My mother works at Fresno High, a public school here, and her co-worker is hispanic and speaks both English and Spanish fluently. And often hispanic kids will come into the office, and because they can see that that lady is hispanic, they will start speaking to her in Spanish. And she gets REALLY REALLY upset and tells the kids that this is America and unless they speak English, she will not help them.

Look, I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AGAINST FOREIGNERS AND THOSE WHO DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!
But I STRONGLY feel that if you want to live somewhere, then you need to acquire communication skills in order to communicate with their language.

Unfortunately for me, I am American and I speak English. But if I were Russian and only spoke Russian, how could I possibly go to Korea and order some noodles? I couldn't and I would be required to learn Korean. And that is how I feel it should be here.

When I went to Tokyo three years ago, I was shocked to find that many road signs and menus had English subtitles. I thought that was terrible. I asked my friend how long have they had English on their road signs, and she told me for a long long time. I asked how she felt about it, and she said that because English is used all over the world, many people can read English, and many tourists come to Tokyo, so that is why. It's not only for Americans, but for anyone who can not read Japanese, they at least have some ability to read English through schooling. And this only happens in a couple large Cities like Tokyo where tourists come, just like how Spanish is more common in San Diego than in North Dakota.

So again, I speak English so I can not compare to someone who speaks a language that is not so common as English.

And you know what? On the telephones, where are the options "Press 3 for Russian", "Press 4 for German", "Press 5 for Cambodian", "Press 6 for Cantonese", "Press 7 for Korean", "Press 8 for Thialand", "Press 9 for Arabic".......................

That's why I direct my attention on non-English speaking Spanish speaking Individuals: Because it is Spanish that has "somehow" been allowed here in AMERICA.

[86 4runner]

thats exactly what i was saying and i got pretty much got ripped a new one and was insulted for having an opinion

[BigMike]

I just read pages 1 and 2.

I never thought about how I am providing free rides for non-legal citizens.


And I wanted to add that I wonder if some Spanish-only-speaking people (both legal and illegal, not ethnicity related, of course Spaniards, and the like, and I've seen White people who do not speak English and only speak Spanish, so it's not just Hispanics who only speak Spanish) feel that they don't need to learn English because our society has accepted Spanish for subtitling, instructions, directions, etc? Please note that this is in no way against specifically Spanish-only-speaking people. It is because our society has somehow "integrated" the language of Spanish into it's system, that I am directing this towards Spanish-speaking people.
If we also integrate other languages into our system, then those people won't need to learn English because they can *get by*

My neighboors across my street are Hmong. When I first met them about two years ago, only their daughter and son spoke English. When Marlin and I walked over to their house to introduce our selves, their children had to translate what we were saying. Since then, I have had multiple conversations with both the mother and father IN ENGLISH. They have a thick accent and are pretty slow at it, but we have coherent and logical conversations in English.

So that's why I add that question above. These Hmong people HAD to learn English in order to communicate. Hmong (Laos?) is not an integrated language here (HOPEFULLY NEVER WILL BE) so they had no choice but to learn English in order to communicate.

So, here's my point, since Spanish is offered as a second language at so many places, there is much less of an incentive to learn English if you already speak Spanish, because you can get by with just the Spanish because that language has been partially integrated into the system here.

Just a thought

[WHITE_TRASH]

Ahhh thanks Mikey, your much more articulate than myself.  Thats EXACTLY what I have been trying to convey.  I'm just too stupid.

[rockhound]

Why do illegal immigrants need drivers licenses?
To run from La Migra?
At least they won't get busted for driving without a license.
No one should be allowed or encouraged to circumvent the LAW.  We, desendants of immigrants all, are required to abide by the law.
If I do something illegal... drive drunk, rob a store, steal a car, pregnant dog slap a punk who needs it(assault), than I should expect to be punished to the full extent of the law.
Maybe I come from a country with no future, or maybe I come from a trailer park with no opportunity to better myself. Whatever my defense is... I'm still a criminal.
If we allow illegal immigrants the privelage of drivers licenses, they now have a government issue identification. But they still do not have legal residency status. What address is listed on their licenses? 1st tree past the bridge, take a left, up over the berm, down into the gully, second hootch on the left?
How will they afford cars and insurance? Don't I have to pay uninsured motorist premiums with my auto insurance...?
If they can afford thousands of dollars to 'coyotes', why don't they use that money to invest in their future as law abiding citizens and go through the legal process of becoming a citizen? Lengthy as it may be.
 
What incentive will they have to follow any of the laws laid down for all law abiding citizens to follow. They just entered the country illegally and were allowed access to the freeways, residency, medical care, & schools.
And all without paying taxes. But we do. That's where the services provided to them come from, our pocket books.

Stop catering to criminals.

IF they wish to better themselves, then do so through proper channels. And learn the language. Assimilate.

If America is the attraction, come, and become an American. 

 

[4DEES]

Why do illegal immigrants need drivers licenses?
To run from La Migra?

did you ever stop too think that maybe they needed a license so they can get too they'rejobs picking fruit,selling oranges, working in factorys,construction so they can support they're family and kids,instead of being lazy and standing with a sign that say "stranded,help" . you should'nt say stupid a$$ little comments like that,some peopl might get pissed............

[rockhound]

Humor my friend.
Maybe you don't think any harm comes from Illegals occupying this country.
Maybe you don't think you are directly affected by their presence.
Do you have children in overcrowded schools?
Do you have hospitals on the verge of collapse?
Do you have police officers being shot and killed by documented gang members here illegally?
Do you try to get a better job, but were denied because you didn't speak Spanish?
Do you pay absorbedent health insurance premiums, while uninsured illegals get free health care?
Are you a citizen? Are you a taxpayer?
Then you are affected.
You may not realize it, but it affects you and every taxpaying citizen in this country.
The point of my opinion is basic, and directly related to the topic.
Illegal immigrants are here by breaking the law. Stop catering to law breakers.
That includes the companies that employ them.
It's simple economics for both parties. They come here for a better life and to make more money than it's possible to make in their country.
We hire them because they'll work for less then we are willing to work for.
However, as a taxpayer, I'm fed up with the  burden placed on the system by those that benefit from it without contributing to it.
As a businessman, I'm fed up with the system that turns a blind eye to the underground economy, but demands that I have unemployment, disability, workers comp, fed and state taxes, etc. to be legitimate.
This overhead keeps me from competing with companies in the same business who employ undocumented workers. I can't both compete and maintain a legitimate status.
Should I join the ranks and hire illegals?
I'm sorry, but I refuse to risk it. I chose to follow the law.
These companies do not pay into the system.
The workers do not contribute. The money they make goes out of the country.
I don't know what it is, but I have read  it estimated at billions of dollars.
We are being invaded and robbed while being asked to feel sorry for them.

[Cheesemaker]

I'm so tired of the bleeding heart liberal bull crap.  Everybody has rights crap.  If you come here, know the language, and become legal.  My children have to know spanish in school or they don't advance, but they give interpretors to the hispanics, and they don't have to know English.  What we need is a giant concrete wall protecting our borders.  Make them go through checkpoints.  No proper papers, don't get in!  And Bush wanting to let free range for them to come and work here!  bull crap!  They got more rights than me!  How many mexicans do crimes and go running for the border.  I've talked to a co-worker that is hispanic, and he says it's easy to come across.  He told me, he was shipped back home one time and in 24 hours he was back into America.  And he says for $100 he can have falsified social #, birth cert. and with a new name! 

Which opens up another ?   So, we know about the mexicans crossing, who else is crossing?  How many suicide bombers, talibans, or al queda, are coming into this country?  That's the scariest thing I try not to think about!  They are finding so many people here in the Pacific Northwest that are fully loaded with high capacity weapons that have ties to know terrorists!  I get so heated on this topic that it makes me wish it was open season on those crossing the border illegaly!
 
Oh! what about them poor bastards that freeze to death crossing into the mountains when there's snow on them!?  Or caught in the flash floods!  They should have stayed home and they wouldn't have died!  Well, this has got me all bent and I need to go and get patriotic befor egoing to work!

[4DEES]

Humor my friend.
Maybe you don't think any harm comes from Illegals occupying this country.
Maybe you don't think you are directly affected by their presence.
Do you have children in overcrowded schools?
Do you have hospitals on the verge of collapse?
Do you have police officers being shot and killed by documented gang members here illegally?
Do you try to get a better job, but were denied because you didn't speak Spanish?
Do you pay absorbedent health insurance premiums, while uninsured illegals get free health care?
Are you a citizen? Are you a taxpayer?
Then you are affected.
You may not realize it, but it affects you and every taxpaying citizen in this country.
The point of my opinion is basic, and directly related to the topic.
Illegal immigrants are here by breaking the law. Stop catering to law breakers.
That includes the companies that employ them.
It's simple economics for both parties. They come here for a better life and to make more money than it's possible to make in their country.
We hire them because they'll work for less then we are willing to work for.
However, as a taxpayer, I'm fed up with the  burden placed on the system by those that benefit from it without contributing to it.
As a businessman, I'm fed up with the system that turns a blind eye to the underground economy, but demands that I have unemployment, disability, workers comp, fed and state taxes, etc. to be legitimate.
This overhead keeps me from competing with companies in the same business who employ undocumented workers. I can't both compete and maintain a legitimate status.
Should I join the ranks and hire illegals?
I'm sorry, but I refuse to risk it. I chose to follow the law.
These companies do not pay into the system.
The workers do not contribute. The money they make goes out of the country.
I don't know what it is, but I have read  it estimated at billions of dollars.
We are being invaded and robbed while being asked to feel sorry for them.

well like I said, some people may not find your stupid little humor funny. pretty much everything you said was meant towards hispanics,so are you saying that no other races in this country commit crimes? thats a bunch of bull crap.

[4DEES]

How many mexicans do crimes and go running for the border. -

there you fawken go again pointing your damn finger at "mexicans",I am not mexican but I am hispanic, and I find it stupid that ignorant people like you think that only "mexicans" are illigal,:pokinit:!! there is immigrants from all over the damn world! why don't you take some time too think about this,pretty much everybody in this country came from an immigrant family,wether it was last year or 100 years ago,it doesn't matter.................

[rockhound]

Yota on 40's... In response to your reply to cheesemaker, you're right.
 When the discussion turns to Illegal Immigration, to a large extent you are talking about Mexicans.
There is a huge problem in this country with people from Mexico putting a drain on our economy.
That's not ignorant, that's informed.

 As far as your reply to my last post...
I NEVER said Hispanics. And I NEVER singled out one race as the only ones committing crimes.

You're right again about all of us being immigrants, I said so in my first post.
I'm of Scots-Irish descent, my ancestors learned English.
My wifes family is German, her ancestors learned English.
My neighbor is Vietnamese, They speak English.
French, German, Vietnamese, Chinese, Russian.
None of these languages are printed on my utility bill. None of these languages are on phone messages.
Because all of these ethnic groups learned the language, or were left in the dust.

This is not an attack on the Hispanic Community, or you personally.
I haven't responded in kind to your personal attack on my level of intelligence or sense of humor.

I would appreciate an intelligent discussion of the issue. If you insist on making it personal, I must refuse to respond.

[4DEES]

Yota on 40's... In response to your reply to cheesemaker, you're right.
 When the discussion turns to Illegal Immigration, to a large extent you are talking about Mexicans.
There is a huge problem in this country with people from Mexico putting a drain on our economy.
That's not ignorant, that's informed.

 As far as your reply to my last post...
I NEVER said Hispanics. And I NEVER singled out one race as the only ones committing crimes.

You're right again about all of us being immigrants, I said so in my first post.
I'm of Scots-Irish descent, my ancestors learned English.
My wifes family is German, her ancestors learned English.
My neighbor is Vietnamese, They speak English.
French, German, Vietnamese, Chinese, Russian.
None of these languages are printed on my utility bill. None of these languages are on phone messages.
Because all of these ethnic groups learned the language, or were left in the dust.

This is not an attack on the Hispanic Community, or you personally.
I haven't responded in kind to your personal attack on my level of intelligence or sense of humor.

I would appreciate an intelligent discussion of the issue. If you insist on making it personal, I must refuse to respond.

no offense was meant to you or anybody I replied too, nor was I tryimg to make anything personal. but it really makes me angry when people just point out the hispanic race,know what I mean? like I said ,no offense though. cheers 

[rockhound]

    

[twin60s]

What in the He** are these idiots in Sacramento thinking. The guy who wrote this legislation has been trying for **8 YEARS** Doesn't that tell you IT'S A BAD IDEA!

Why would a state give any "state sanctioned" form of ID to an illegal alien? They don't belong here in the first place. This is a bad slippery slope, that won't end. Who's the dumba$$ who thinks any of them will really apply for it anyway? They know they would be deported as soon as they filled out the application, and they'd have to cross the river again. This is just plain stupidity if you ask me. As soon as they get the "right" to drive, they'll be demanding other "rights" as well, such as food stamps, welfare, work-comp, FHA home loans.

Proponents state it will make them take tests, and have insurance...Yea right! A huge percentage of people who can leagally get drivers licenses don't have insurance now, so what makes them think these people will. And taking a test to drive...Whoopeee. Look at all the idiots who are already on the road. [sarcasm: on] This would certainly help I'm sure. [sarcasm: off]

I wish someone in Sacramento would figure this out. What a waste of time, energy and money.

Ok, I'm done ranting now.

Erik

it will never happen as long as FEINSTEIN,BOXER,AND BROWN are in office. do yourself a favor,pack up and get out

[BigMike]

like I said ,no offense though. cheers

Hey guys, I just wanted to say thanks and have another

I know this kind of a topic can offend many and can words and thoughts can get bent and taken out of context. So I just wanted to say thanks for keeping it cool and that I have learned a lot from this topic and I appriciate everyone's input

[Cheesemaker]

I don't mean to offend, but the largest population of people that abuse our system, just happens to be of the hispanic minority.  Yes, there are alot of them that come here to make a better life for themselves, that are truly trying to fit in, and I applaud them!  By learning the language.  But, there are alot of them that just abuse the system, and ruin it for the rest of us that really try and in turn when we need the assistance, can't get it because the system is overloaded.  My biggest gripe is that they need to learn the language for one, and we should not cater to them cause they don't want to learn it!  There are hispanic children in my wife's school where she works, that flat out refuse to learn it.  And we are allowing that, and that's wrong. 
Do you think that if we illegally moved to another country and don't learn the language, would we get all the free medical, welfare, foodstamps to live?  I doubt it! 
There is a man in Idaho, that is working his way up the political ladder hoping to try to change things, and his agenda is aimed towards the alien hispanic population that is draining our tax dollars.  He has proposed a bill, to make the Mexican government pay for the expenses that his county is spending on the illegal immigrants.  The ironic thing is that this man's parents are from Mexico.  They have been trying to get interviews with him and they want to talk to him in spanish and he refuses to!!  He told them that this is America and the language is english.  He still speaks spanish fluently, only in his home and only if his family is present.  This is how my great grandparents lived there lives when they came through Ellis Island.  Nobody spoke german outside their home or when they had visitors!    I applaud this man! 
At our other manufacturing plant near Hermiston, OR we have alot of workers that are of Russian, Bosnian, and others that learned english as soon as they came here to live, because they were very proud to be given the opportunity to be given another chance in our country.     OK, I'm done venting!

[88runner]

this might be a good spot for this
*warning*  F bomb


http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Tonk

that's funny
eso es divertido
c'est drôle
das ist lustig
quello è divertente
isso é engraçado
grappig dat
αυτός αστείος

sorry for the asian on the board I coudln't translate it, BigMike maybe

[Rocksurfer]

that's funny
eso es divertido
c'est drôle
das ist lustig
quello è divertente
isso é engraçado
grappig dat
αυτός αστείος

sorry for the asian on the board I coudln't translate it, BigMike maybe

[sidebar]
You could always go to this search engine, I like it the best of the others. It doesn't ask you to download any of their junk and it has a translater. It's pretty cool works most times and when it messes up it is just a matter of placing words in the correct context.


http://www.altavista.com/
[/sidebar]


Now without getting into which group of people are sneaking into our country to either find a new life or sponge off of our system, if they come here illegally they should get zip in services that we offer to our citizen's and legal immigrants. In most of these countries that they are coming from they get no help anyways and is why they are coming here in the first place. I think that our legal immigration system should be revamped allowing more "Mexico" hispanic's to come here, reality is though that we probably supported them on paper in the country that they came in the money we give these 3rd world countries , so what's the difference. We are supporting them here and we know they got the money, or we support them in their own country and more than half ends up in some rulers pocket. The only issue beyond that for me is that if they are coming here, it should be required that they speak and understand English except when their life depends on getting out of the country they are from due to persecution.

[germ [OP]]

WOW! I've been gone a few days, and it seems this topic has touched some raw nerves.

My point in starting this thread was not to point at hispanics or any other particular heritage. It was mearly pointing at illeagal aliens who enter our country. Doesn't matter what their country of origin.

As I recall, driving is a PRIVILEGE, and not a right. I think the logic behind granting them driver's licenses is faulty.  We should not be providing them with any services or special benefits when they are not in the country legally.  If they can go through the process and get temporary visa to be here that I think the services should be available to them as they need it.

I'm tired of paying taxes and increased insurance bills to provide for people who have no business being here in the first place.  I'm also concerned about people who are here for terrorist reasons that enter illegally through other channels.

Erik

[gonzo]

As I recall, driving is a PRIVILEGE, and not a right. I think the logic behind granting them driver's licenses is faulty. We should not be providing them with any services or special benefits when they are not in the country legally. If they can go through the process and get temporary visa to be here that I think the services should be available to them as they need it.

Could you explain why you feel driving is a privilege and not a right.  Thanks.

[germ [OP]]

Everything I remember from driving school many years ago said that driving is a PRIVILEGE and not a right. If you fail to follow the rules (i.e. too many tickets, accidents, no insurance etc) your privilege can be taken away. I can't find it right now, but go to the DMV web site and I bet she would find that it says driving is a privilege.

Erik

[mudguts]

Why don't we teach the lazy Americans who abuse the system spanish, then put them in the packing sheds next to workers so they'll get off the system. Everyone else pales in comparison to the lazy citizens who have spent a lifetime on a government meal ticket.If they squawk, take their license away and along with the illegals, send them back to their nation of origin. Who cares how many generations they've been here. 

[4DEES]

Why don't we teach the lazy Americans who abuse the system spanish, then put them in the packing sheds next to workers so they'll get off the system. Everyone else pales in comparison to the lazy citizens who have spent a lifetime on a government meal ticket.If they squawk, take their license away along with the illegals and send them back to their nation on origin. Who cares how many generations they've been here.

perfect point  ,let's all remember that not only immigrants(or "mexicans") are not the only ones abusing the system.

[BLACKDOG]

Why don't we teach the lazy Americans who abuse the system spanish, then put them in the packing sheds next to workers so they'll get off the system. Everyone else pales in comparison to the lazy citizens who have spent a lifetime on a government meal ticket.If they squawk, take their license away along with the illegals and send them back to their nation on origin. Who cares how many generations they've been here. 

sounds good to me   you do an honest days work, you get an honest days pay.  You live of the hardworking people around you, they buy you a one way ticket to france (or is that too cruel ?? )

[germ [OP]]

I totally agree! There are some lazy assed American's as well. One thing I truly appreciate about the Mexican Immigrants is that most of them are willing to work very hard, and unfortunatly for them, for not much money. Many American's could learn alot from their work ethic.

I think anyone who recieves money from the state for welfare or foodstamps, should "be employed" by the state, and have to provide a useful service that the city/county/state needs. Cleaning up trash, painting curbs, planting trees, raking leaves....whatever. Unless you have a clearly documented medical condition that precludes you from doing these things, put 'em to work!

Erik

[gonzo]

We need to start another thread "Lazy A$$ Americans"...........I believe that if the aliens (not ET) would come here and get the drivers license that would defeat their purpose of coming over here illegally.  It would require to much information on their part.  As well as a photo and finger printing.  They would not go for it. My opinion. 

People who have money would not be coming here illegally (under normal curcumstances).  If I was wanting to benefit from coming here and earning money, then I would not want to leave a "paper trail".  I would want to come here - earn money - send it/take it to my family, that's it.

[Rocksurfer]

Why don't we teach the lazy Americans who abuse the system spanish, then put them in the packing sheds next to workers so they'll get off the system. Everyone else pales in comparison to the lazy citizens who have spent a lifetime on a government meal ticket.If they squawk, take their license away along with the illegals and send them back to their nation of origin. Who cares how many generations they've been here. 

Unfortunatly that's the same system that illegals are using by coming across the border and having a kid here. Welfare is all about kids, of course we give that welfare money to the parents and the kid is lucky to see any of it. They sell the food stamps to others for pennys on the dollar just to get a buck for their addictions. Most illegals get on welfare because it is offered to them once they have that kid here and round we go.

[4DEES]

rocksurfer,have you lived this life? have you been an illigal? correct me if I'm wrong but I think you havent.... why do you say all this B.S.(bull crap) about selling foodstamps for they're addiction?! which leads me to another argument: are you saying that there are no americans selling to get cash for "addictions",are there no americans abusing the welfare system that WE tax payers pay? I call bull crap once again.....