Topic: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap

[Ferg]

A note about Japanese engines.  Most of these have been run at max RPM in first or second gear for their entire life.  If you've ever been on a Tokyo taxi ride you know just what I mean.  Be extra cautious during your teardown exam (engine #2).

[4RnrRick [OP]]

I talked to the wrecking yard today and my 3rd motor did not come in today.... So maybe Monday.

[Paul_Elbisser]

http://www.jarcoinc.com/
I got my 2nd motor here. I got one with the new headgasket and a warentee.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

I talked to the wrecking yard last night and it now looks like Thursday or Friday of this week motor #3 should in.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

I went to the wrecking yard last night to give them back Motor #2 and pick up Motor #3 and look what I found when I got there.....Two motors.... So I got to choose which one I wanted.



Well I never seen the intake on the left one so I grabbed that one. What can I say, I like oddities....Plus I'm still not sure which intake I'm going to use on my next go around.... It also looked just a tad cleaner than the other one.



Well now its time to tear it down and see what it looks like on the inside! Come to find out this intake had two butterflies in it and two TPS's??? Strange..... But it looks pretty clean on the inside of it, so thats good. I'm going to have to do some research on this intake because the more I look at it, the more questions I have.....



Inside the plenum also looks clean......



The EFI Runners look pretty clean...



So now we are down to the intake side of the head and it starting to look more what I expected to see..... more build up of crap in the head. But for this engine it still looks pretty normal to me. and all the cylinders look the same, which is a good thing!



And here is the exhaust side. It does have carbon build up but to me again it looks like a normal level of build up and every cylinder looks the same.



Time to pull the water pump. Much cleaner then the last one but I was surprised to see some build up of sediment in the right side cavity.......... But atleast this one actualy had soem coolant left in there.



The Timing belt, sprockets, tension look to be in good shape.....

[4RnrRick [OP]]

The inside of the valve covers look kinda crappy! just more burnt oil build up than I expected to see.



The valve train looks good....



Well now for the time of truth! Time to pull the HEAD! 



#6 cylinder head gasket is BADLY deformed, two spot pulled in slightly and one spot really pushed out. It doesn't look blown to me and the metal crush ring is still intact but it would have NOT lasted very long in that condition!



#4 & #3 look acceptable.......



#1 is also BADLY deformed and it was even to teh point wher teh piston was starting to hit it. But again it doesn't appear to have actually blown, YET.....



And here is what the valves look like. Much better than the first two motors.



Well, right now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. But I really don't see anything here that I can complain about other then the head gasket was on the verge of blowing. But thats not a big deal since I pulled the head and had plans to replace that anyways. As long as it had NOT blown and damaged the bearings in the bottom end, I should be fine.

I think what I'm going to have done is a professional Head Job, Send the injectors in for a cleaning and maybe inspect the bottom end bearings. But I hate disturbing the bottom end since that would probably void teh warranty I curerntly have. I should cost out the price to have the bottom end fully checked out and balanced also.....I just have to think about it some more before I do anything.....

[4RnrRick [OP]]

For those that are interested here is some good info on trying to convert a shorty straight 7M intake to a long Y-Pipe intake.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309728

Basically Cressida's and Tubro Supra's have a shorty straight intake like this:


And N/A Supras have a long Y-pipe with a plenum that is equipped with ACIS (Acoustic Control Induction System) and look like this:


I'm still not sure which intake I'm going to use but I'm thinking I will use the Supra Y-intake and plenum with my Cressida Thottle Body.....

[4RnrRick [OP]]

I'm still trying to identify this strange intake and I started a post over on Supra Forums directly related to it. So I thought I would post a link to that thread. Hopefully the guys over there can figure it out. I've also called a Toyota Parts Guy and he is working on it for me also.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312981

Heres the serial number on the block - anybody got a reference sheet by serial numbers??

7M 0381113

And here are some part numbers off the odd parts.

Thorttle Body
22030-42020

TPS's (both of them have the same numbers)
89452-14050
198500-0241

TRC device (I have no idea whats it really called)
89632-30020

Can anyone look up those numbers in some master toyota parts list???

[4RnrRick [OP]]

I got the head back from the machine shop yesterday from Motor #3.









This motor didn't look like it had very many miles so I didn't have a "complete" head job done with grinding the valves and all of that.

What I did have them do is:
* Dis-assemble the head
* Hot tank it to clean it all up
* Remove the broken exhaust stud
* Surface the head (took .012" off to clean it up)
* Install new valve and cam seals
* Re-assemble the head.

That cost $95 so it wasn't too bad. But atleast now I know its all in good working order and nice & clean.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Well I worked on the 4runner all weekend long!

Friday night:
I basically got everything removed from the front of the engine bay. (grill, winch, fan, radiator, power steering, alternator, water pump, distrubitor, charcoal canister, coil, afm, etc...)

Saturday morning:
I finished preping Motor #1 to get it pulled out of the 4runner.

Saturday afternoon:
I got motor #1 pulled and set onto a motor crate in the garage. I also got the garage organized so I could transfer everything from motor #1 onto motor #3, which was a BARE short block on a engine stand.

Saturday evening:
I started assembling Motor #3 and I wasted a lot of time trying to adapter that Import motor Y-intake and plenum to use my US model Cressida Throttle Body. In the end I decided it was more work that I wanted to get involved with and just decided to install all the US model cressida intake, plenum and TB onto the new motor #3. Except I did remove the EGR system because the head on the import motor was not set up for the EGR. And as a bonus, I now don't have to worry about my EGR hitting the firewall because it was REALLY close before.

Sunday morning:
I finished assembling motor #3 and got it on the cherry picker.

Sunday Afternoon:
I got motor #3 dropped back into the 4runner. Then I started hooking back up the wiring harness and putting the assesories back onto the new motor while it was in the 4runner. Basically the less you have on the engine, the easier it is to pull and install. Pulling the engine was pretty easy because I removed the water pump. But on the reinstall I accidently already had the water pump installed and I really had to fight it to get it back into the engine bay. But I got it!

Sunday evening:
I worked on getting my 210 York mounted to the 7MGE. That really went pretty fast because I had most of the mounting brackets already made from the first time I installed the motor and mocked up the brackets. but then I got to the point where I needed a belt before I could go any farther and the auto stores where already closed. So that pretty much ended the work for the evening because I need to finalize the York before I start putting the radiator back in the vehicle. Just for the fact that the engine bay is really tight and with teh radiator out, its much easy to mock up the york brackets.

I'm hopping to have it up and running by this next weekends club fun run......

[Geno]

I hope the new/used engine works out for you.  Good luck. 

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Well heres a picture of my weekend progress.....



Here's a picture of the two OBA brackets I made for the york 210. Nice and simple....



Heres how they look when they are bolted to the York.



And then to the motor.



Front view of everything installed. and its just an optical illusion that makes the belt looks like it hitting touching the water pump pulley. I ended up using a 377K4 belt which fit perfectly!



Bottom view of everything installed. And yes, the york is close to the frame rail but I doubt it will ever touch.



So here it is with all the belts installed on the 7M with the alternator in the factory position, Power steering moved to the driver side of the engine and the york mounted where the power steering was orignally.



And here is how it looks now. I've almost got this Motor #3 completely installed and now with OBA!

[4.3s10]

I think me and my friend might be doing this swap into his 85 xtra cab I just hope it isn't going to be to hard and expensive i was a little nervous about the wiring but you did a good job at explaining it so i think we will be able to tackle it. I can't wait for the increase in power.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Motor #3 is now completely installed! It fired right up on the first turn of the Key!!! I love it when that happens!!!

I got all the fluid levels topped off, checked the timing and took it for a drive. Feels just like the last motor, so I hope thats a good thing. To me it still feels kinda doggy at highway speeds from what I would expect but the first motor felt the same way.

The last motor had a 195 degree thermostat in it, so for this motor I installed a 180 degree thermostat and so far that seems to have stopped the temperature from constantly changing while driving at freeway speeds so thats another plus.

I also found out that I have a noisy bearing on the pulley side of the alternator which makes the engine sound funny, so I need to get that fixed ASAP....

Plus the OBA even works! Its got a small leak at the pressure switch, but it works!! I've got a few little things to check over before this weekends run, but nothing major. Its mostly just little stuff that I need to tidy up and I need to double check everything to make sure its trail ready.

[Paul_Elbisser]

Good     

So what is the story on the intake? did you run the Y pipe, or straight pipe between the throtle body and plenumn? Just wondering if you misplaced and old pic in the post.

Double check your timming and fluid levels every chance you get.

Good job on the Yourk also. I need one, but one day I plan to fit the AC back in it. Midwest humidity sucks

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Oh, I just reused ALL the US Model Cressida stuff. So this Motor #3 is Basically everything from Motor #1 except the block and the head which is from the import. I even swapped over all the timing components.

[reklund5]

Well, welcome to the wonderful world of the 7M engine.  Pretty much every 7M ever built came with a blown headgasket.  Glad to hear you got it running correctly tho! 

Ryan

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Figure its time to update this thread again since I got Motor #3 out on the trail this last weekend.

The 4runner seemed to run pretty good and pretty much identical to Motor#1. And I said this about the first motor bu tI will say it again - Running up those mountain gravel roads was AWESOME! Before with the 22RE I would have to run 3rd or 4th low range up gravel roads and then if I wanted to drift a corner I would have to whip the steering wheel a bit and sometimes even blip the clutch to break the rear loose so it'll float out and around the corners. With this new motor I was running 2nd gear high range which was around 3500 rpm and then on the corners I would just give it more gas and the rear tires would just break loose and start to drift and then you start counter steering and that with the 36" iroks aired down to 5 psi. It was EXTREMELY smooth and controlled and not whippy or felt like it would loop out. And you could totally control the slide with the amount of gas you give it! Plus this motor LOVES the higher RPM's. What I mean by that is it really starts producing the power around 4000-5500 rpm and it doesn't even really sound wound up like the 22R/RE motors at that RPM. I think its also has to due to the fact that it has a wider power band compared to the 4 cylinders so you can stay on the gas longer before you need to shift.

I also crawled on the rocks and it felt pretty nice but I still need to get use to the feel for the clutch and where it engages. I think I only killed it a couple of times....





When I got back home I found a several minor problems, Some I knew about on teh trail, others I didn't......

I found a coolant leak on the back of the head. not sure where its coming from yet. just something I need to keep an eye on so I can figure out how to fix it. I think its just coming from a hose, but there are several back there and they are all a PITA to get to. and all I found was some coolant drips on the back of the head, so right now I have no idea where they came from. The coolant level was also down just a bit. Also the 180 degree thermostat really calmed down teh thermostat. Its not contantly going up and down any more.

The front of my motor has an oil leak. I'm not sure if thats coming from inside the timing cover or the front of the oil pan. So I'm going to have to watch that one also to figure out where its coming from.

The power steering pump also seems to have a little seepage. Kinda like the hoses are sweating..... I'll probably just leave that one alone for now since I really need to install a hydro assist setup. I don't think this Cressida/Supra PS pump has the flow or pressure compared to the Truck pumps because I was having lots of problems steering at idle. More than before. Although I just figured out that the supra also specs out ATF fluid for the power steering and not Standard Power Steering Fiuld which is what I filled it up with, Oops......

A hose melt on my OBA system. It was just too close to the exhaust, I would have thought 4-5" was far enough away but I guess not.

I also had some weird noises coming from my bell housing when I was on steep climbs. When I got home I found out that it was from a bolt that came out of my pressure plate assembly and ended up making some noises against my flywheel teeth in the bellhousing. So that means I should drop the tranny and get that fixed.....

When I was working under there I found a huge dent in my exhaust... I think this was from me jumping a that big whoop-dee on one of the gravel roads. - I was just going to fast and caught too much air...... With the old motor I would just float this bump with with the new motor I was just going to fast and landed it pretty hard.....But it was fun! Also the front axle appears to have survived it! Good thing I have plug welded and gussested balls.



Whats weird about that dent in the exhuast is its 3" to my bump stops with probably another 1/2" to max compression. But its 6" to the dent!!! So it must of been when I jumped the 4runner and it axle wrapped the rest of the way up and self clearanced itself...... really strange. Anyways I'm going to have to go back to the exhaust shop and have them make the exhaust a little tighter to the bell housing.

The alternator also had a dry bearing so I took that off and took it it apart. Well the brushes where also badly worn so I just took it to a local shop rebuild shop. I just got off the phone with them and they said that alternator was a 90 Amp one. Which is odd becasue Napa told be the Cressida was equppied with a 80A alternator. and a remaned one from them was going to run about $140 + core. So the electric shop told me that the rebuild with new bearings and brushes that would cost ~ $60. Then he said he could bump it up to 120Amps for about another $50. So I'm having him do that. That should make a nice alternator that should last a long time for $110. especially since the alternator on the 7M is on top of the motor unlike the 22R series where its down in the mud! Its a bit more than I was wanting to put into it right now, but that will make a nice setup running my dual batteries and my winch. I wonder if 120Amps is enough to run a onboard welder???

So far I'm happy with the performance of this motor #3.... I just got some minor bugs to work out as far as leaks and squeaks go....

[reklund5]

Good to hear it's all working out!

The 7M's do like to work around 4K RPM.  I know the one in my Supra LOVES 4K rpm at around 25psi...

I'm curious about your firewall clearance...just how tight is it back there?  Any chance you can point the camera in there when you scope out the coolant leaks?

Ryan

[shad]

Awsome sounds like it worked out for ya finally.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Thought I should update the timeline since I'm now techinally on motor #3 ....

June 06, 2005 - decide that I'm going to do a 7M motor swap.

June 10, 2005 - Got motor from wrecking yard.

June 18, 2005 - Pulled 22RE from the 4Runner.

June 26, 2005 - 7M installed into 4runner.

Jul 08, 2005 - Drove it for the first time.

Aug 29, 2005 - After 1200 miles, I spun #4 rod bearing. luckily I still had 10 days left on the warranty.

Sep 01, 2005 - Got #2 7M from the wrecking yard.

Sep 16, 2005 - Returned #2 7M because after my inspection it turned out to be crap and the wrecking yard got me #3 7M.

Oct 07, 2005 - #3 7M is now installed and driving.

Oct 21, 2005 - After two trail runs and about 300 miles, the engine is still running good but my new throwout bearing is making some noise and  the front of the motor has a small oil leak, Hopefully this weekend I can tackle those issues.....

[BigMike]

That's a lot of work man, glad to see you get it all back together. Hopefully this one will last ya 100,000 miles!!

[jr9162]

What's the latest on the swap?

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Motor is still running strong but my crank bolt got loose somehow and took out my front main seal and the woodruff key. So I had to replace those - luckiily the crank was not damaged. I hope to have it back together tonight and running for this weekend so I can play in some snow.......



I had a person asking me about the FSM schematics for the 89' Cressida so I scanned them and figure I would post links to them here.

Power source, Starting, Charging Schematic
http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1464183-schematic1.GIF

ECU Schematic
http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1464184-schematic2.GIF

Sorry they are so big but it was a PITA to scan these and then put them together digitally onto one file with my crappy photo editing software.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

I just heard that there is a photo of my 7M swap into my 85 4runner in the "motor swap section" of the Nov/Dec '05 issue of the 4WD Toyota Owners magazine....



So of course I had to order a copy of it to check it out..... I think this
is the photo that was used.



I didn't write the article - I just was asked to submit a photo to the writter. So we will see what it says....




Last weekend I also got a chance to play in the snow. If you haven't see the video, here it is.... 3:30 mins ~9MB
http://www.rcpics.net/img/68310





The 3rd motor has been running good and I think the gas mileage is still simliar to the first motor (13 mpg) although it might be a tad better but I have still yet to have a good long distance road test to know for sure.

But I'm still having occasion overheating issues when I'm at high rpms and low speeds. So I've decided to add a hood vent to increase the air flow though the engine bay. I have no idea how it will really work, but I figured it couldn't hurt the situation....

So I searched around a bit and I couldn't find anything I really like for a pre-made hood vent/scoop. plus I wanted to add one on each side of the engine so water and crap wouldn't get directed right on top of the motor and down inbetween the valve covers of the 7M so I decided to make my own 'nostril' type hood vents for a ram air effect that will force the air down on each side of theengine using a piece of mandel bent tubing. I'm also hoping that this curved piece will keep crap off my air filter. So this was my oringal idea....



So the first thing I did was to make a cardboard template of the curved hood profile and started cutting on that. when I was satisfied with the profile I transfered that to the hood and started cutting. Then I cut the tubing down to the profile I wanted and slowly ground on the hole until it was a tight fit. so far its turning out pretty nice for about the hour I was working on it.









It looks a little funky now but thats okay.... I'm hoping that once I get it welded into place and bondo on it and painted the same color, it should look better and more like a part of the hood instead of a scabbed on piece of metal in the shape of a shoe horn.

[1Bad4Runner]

Love your truck, I watched the video... it sounds awsome and looks like it is working great.

I was wondering are you tires radial and what size they are? also are both axles locked? Because it goes through the snow like butter.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

36" Bias Iroks on 15 x10 rims at 3.5 psi, detroits front and rear, 5.29 gears, marlin dual ultimate t-case.

[1Bad4Runner]

Damn, I'm trying to find a good tire to run on the road and in the woods... I have a brand new set of 36" SX's and I'm worried that they will wear to fast. Do you have any knowledge on these? I was thinking of Irok radials, but now sure if they are any good.

[4RnrRick [OP]]

SX's wear a lot better than the IROKs. IROK's have so little contact with the road surface that they just flat out wear really FAST!



I got the driver side hood vent made today and the hood cut.



I also got the vents bead blasted and the hood sanded down and ready for welding...

[4RnrRick [OP]]

Here is a copy of the article from 4wd Toyota Owners Magazine.
http://www.4wdtoyotaowner.com/

Click to load the article pages:
Page 1
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If your browser automatically resized the images, they will look like crap, so view them in full size....