Author Topic: Wont run right Help! (Read 6518 times)

RHG · « **on:** May 20, 2005, 10:46:45 PM »

I have had my yota for a couple weeks now and havnt been able to get the engine to run smooth. I went to mess with the timing and found that this thing is cranked way up. I honestly dont know if its one thing or a combination of things. Here is whats going on. Timming is at like 20* from what the mark and gun is showing. But it runs like

when I put the timing where the book says it should be (5*) I adjusted the idle to what the book says (750-800rpm) but it still sputters and has some noisy valvetrain. I did a self diagnosis with my handy chiltons manual and my ecm came back with three codes. 42-Vehicle speed sensor 43-Starter signal 51-Switch Condition Signal. Whats all this mean? I bought it from my moms coworker and he said the moter is fairly new(6,000k). Any help would be great. It still

but it should be running better than this.

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2005, 09:57:25 AM »

What year, carb of efi? If it was carbed, did you disconnect the vacuum advance lines when you set the timing? If it is fuel injected did you jump the check connector when you set the timing?

BigMike · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2005, 10:40:30 AM »

Yup, I was going to ask the same thing if it's an efi, did you jump the E-T1 terminals or the plug on the fender wall (early style efi)?

Speed Sensor Code: Is your speedometer hooked up and working?

Starter Condition Code: I would ignore this code and after rechecking the timing and such, I would reset the ecu and see if this code comes back on. I've seen this code but it was because I had my starter disconnected and I was checking circuits on the START position. I've also seen this code turn on for no reason and I just reset the ecu and it never came back on...

Switch Condition Code: I have no idea what switch it's talking about. What does the list of possible "Troubleshooting"

recommend to do?

As for the valve train, it wouldn't hurt to just check to make sure the valves are adjusted correctly. If it only has 6000 miles on the engine, then it sounds like the valves were adjusted when the motor was being built, but then they forgot to readjust them after a couple hundred miles. If this is a 22R/E/TE then whenever we rebuild 'em, we have the customer bring the truck back @ 500 miles and we readjust the valves. They seem to break-in, in a sense, and naturally loosen at first.

BigMike

RHG · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2005, 10:49:00 AM »

89 EFI Jump terminals when setting timing? Hmmm, I just looked through my chiltons for nearly half an hour and finally found a small section about doing the jump terminals. Since I have been screwing with the timing without the terminals should I reset it before I go and do it the correct way? The book says 5* but I have heard 8* will be a little better. What do you think?

RHG · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2005, 10:58:55 AM »

Mike your a god!

Actually my speedometer cable isnt hooked up. The previous owner took cause it started acting up but never put it back in. The switch code says in the chiltons: Diagnosis: Displayed when IDL contat OFF or shift position in "R", "2", or"1" ranges with the check terminals E1 and TE1 connected. Trouble Area: Throttle Position sensor IDL circuit, PNP Switch circuit, Accelerator pedal, cable or ECM. Now after having some sleep I read this and it seems to me that stupid little cable might be the cause or atleast a big part. Time to call toyota for some parts

I think im going to check the TPS too. Oh crap, my multimeter is broken.

Time to start a shopping list. How bout the valves Mike? Im mechanicly inclined, is this something I can do in my garage? Hmmm, this isnt my old chevy v8 anymore so im guessing the rockers are shaft mounted?

How do I tighten these and whats the clearances? Looks like ive got some work cut out for me. Thanks for the help

RHG · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2005, 05:04:48 PM »

Ok so i did what everybody said. I used a jumperr wire to set the timing and it made it idle much smoother and not nearly as noisy. But when I took it for a test drive it was completely gutless until about 3000rpm

From what BigMike said about the valves needing to be adjusted I think this could be the problem. I have too much stuff to do for the rest of the day so that is tomorrows project. Anybody else have any sugestions before I got pulling the valve cover off?

I havnt yet checked the TPS. Ill do that tomorow too. I am going order the speedo cable on monday and install it when I get my new transmission.

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2005, 06:29:18 PM »

Regular valve lash adjustments is an ok thing, so go ahead and adjust them. Just be warned, even porperly adjusted they still make some noise.

As for adjusting valves, its pretty easy. Pull the valve cover and rotate the crank until the timing mark on the crank is lined up. Then adjust the valves that have play in them, should be four. Rotate the crank over one revolution until the timing mark is up again, and now the other four valves should have play. Adjust them. done. Oh, all you need is a wrench (12 mm I think), a flat blade screw driver and some feeler gauges, preferrebly the angled ones, but flat ones will do.

here is a pictoral link
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/22rvalves/index.html

RHG · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2005, 09:58:13 PM »

Thanks Uncle. That pictorial really helps. Hopefully that will get this engine running the way it should. Ill keep ya'll posted on the progress. Hopefully I wont have to come running with more questions.

Thanks

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2005, 11:29:06 PM »

for when you get ready to check your tps:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

BigMike · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2005, 12:08:03 AM »

This is an Automatic right?

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2005, 05:54:56 AM »

Quote from: rocks hurt good on May 21, 2005, 05:04:48 PM

Ok so i did what everybody said. I used a jumperr wire to set the timing and it made it idle much smoother and not nearly as noisy. But when I took it for a test drive it was completely gutless until about 3000rpm From what BigMike said about the valves needing to be adjusted I think this could be the problem.

dude your cam timing is off, put your crank pully at the 0 mark and your cam dowel should be at 1130, you know a few degrees befor 12 oclock if not you need to move the chain one tooth, rotate by hand one time to make sure nothing binds then crank it up and go for a drive

RHG · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:53:03 AM »

No Mike this is a 5spd

RHG · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2005, 03:41:49 PM »

Ok, I havnt checked the cam dowl thingy

But I went through and did a valve adjustment. That made it a little bit better but is still gutless. I was wondering if there is a possibility that the distributor was stabbed a tooth off. Right now it is adjusted to the stop and its between 5*-8* I cant go any less. Its really starting to

drive me up the wall. Im going to have to crank the timing back up to where it was so I can drive this thing back and forth to work.

Someone have anymore ideas? Looks like I may have to pull off the valve cover again and check that dowl.

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2005, 05:26:29 PM »

with the crank set to tdc, on number one compression stroke, you should be able to pull the distributor cap off and see the rotor pointing to the number one cylinder (on the cap)

BigMike · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2005, 07:45:16 PM »

Sorry,

but I couldn't resist

Quote from: BigMike on May 22, 2005, 12:08:03 AM

This is an Automatic right?

Quote from: rocks hurt good on May 22, 2005, 10:53:03 AM

No Mike this is a 5spd

Well if that's a manual transmission then I would throw your Chiltons book away and get a Toyota FSM quick.

Quote

The switch code says in the chiltons: Diagnosis: Displayed when IDL contat OFF or shift position in "R", "2", or"1" ranges with the check terminals E1 and TE1 connected

I can't understand ANY OF THAT about being in R, 2nd or 1st gears. The ONLY thing the reverse switch is used for is to ground the circuit for your reverse lights. Other then that, Nothing electrical on your truck knows what gear you are in. The computer has NO CLUE what gear you're in so that is an absolute BOGUS error code Diagnosis.

RHG · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2005, 09:09:45 PM »

Yeah Mike, that code threw me for a loop to.

I have the FSM vol 2 for the entire truck. I guess I better open that up now. I am a little intimidated by those books because I have always used either chiltons or haynes and those fsm's are writen for techs. Ill figure it out though. Thank you uncle jesse...I will have to check and make sure the distributor is where it should be. If I get time during the week I will check the cam dowl. When I get my speedo cable hooked up I am going to reset the ECM and then see what codes come back. I can either pull the fuse or disconnect the battery for 30seconds right?

Thank you for your help

BirdDog · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2005, 09:43:12 PM »

Marlin did a valve job on my 85 4runner and when I put the head back on I took it back to him to help me time it couse I was having similiar problems. When we put the paperclip into T1 the engine did not respond<it is supposed to drop rpms a little> after messing w/ the tps for a while I asked him if the little allen head w/set screw adjuster on the throttle cable was important he said YES why? Well that was how I was adj my Idle . That was my problem couse my computer was trying to compensate the fuel flow couse I had that screw set way in and it was not allowing the computer to set the idle anyway after we adj that the tps came to life .
I hope this rambling helps I am not a typer and it took me about 10 min's to write this.
John...

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2005, 11:11:51 PM »

To clear codes, pull the efi fuse and wait a minute or so, then reinstall. If you pull the battery cable then you lose the all important radio presets, meaning, you have to figure out how to reset the clock. . .

BigMike · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2005, 11:49:32 PM »

Quote from: birddog on May 22, 2005, 09:43:12 PM

after messing w/ the tps for a while I asked him if the little allen head w/set screw adjuster on the throttle cable was important he said YES why? Well that was how I was adj my Idle . That was my problem couse my computer was trying to compensate the fuel flow couse I had that screw set way in and it was not allowing the computer to set the idle anyway after we adj that the tps came to life .

Hey this isn't John from Tulare is it?

From reading your story, this has brought up a great point. rhg, make sure that your idle surges slightly when you jump E and T1 terminals, other wise the computer will still be in a closed (or open?) loop state.

The problem birddog was having is that his butterfly on his throttle body was either closing to much or was remaining open to much, and the TPS sensor never saw an IDLE condition. The computer must see an IDLE condition from the TPS before the timing may be set.

This happened on an 87 4Runner that I changed engines on. I didn't want to mess with the TPS since I never adjusted it and didn't want to mess with it, so I first just gave it a couple wacks with an extension and that was enough for it to read IDLE and all-of-a-sudden the idle came down (as I had the jumper in place). That truck had sat for about a year and the TPS had never moved. So I guess I loosened up something inside, some residue or something that was causing the TPS to stick or hang.

BigMike

BirdDog · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2005, 06:55:15 AM »

Hey BigMike Hows it goin
Yah this is John Formerly from Tulare we just moved to Sanger.
I had to get closer to you guys and the Trails.

John...

RHG · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2005, 12:13:39 PM »

Holy Crap! More stuff to think about

Well thats something, my idle does not do a damn thing when I jump the two terminals together. So what your saying Mike is that I need to take a BFH to the TPS?

That'd be easy. I have been adjusting the idle with the screw in the top thats for a flat head screwdriver. This is beginning to get over my head being that i have never delt with a toy motor. Why couldnt this be my old Camaro w/TBI? Ahhh! Mike if you could explain this to me a lil better than I will gladly try it before moving timing chain or pulling distributors.

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2005, 04:41:48 PM »

The tps has four pins on it. Three of them are for the actual tps potentiomter, being reference voltage, signal, and signal return or ground. The fourth pin is an idle switch input, which is grounded to the signal return or ground pin when the throttle returns to idle. I believe that the idle switch is a 12 volt circuit, whereas the reference voltage is a 5 volt circuit. If the tps is misadjusted, or say the idle contacts are glazed, the computer will not see an idle signal and adjust accordingly.

First, hook your multimeter to the tps across the idle and ground pins, and see what you get. if it is closed, then it is working prperly. If it is open, then you need to go through and see if the tps is adjusted properly, by the technique I linked to earlier. I would do the before I got out the hammer and starter wailing at an electronic engine sensor. If it is misadjusted, worst case you will have to pull the thermostat housing to access the adjustment bolts. If it turns out to be adjusted correctly, and you still don't see idle switch operation, then you might give it a whack, but I would plan on buting a new tps either way.

also, there is a spec for the idle stop screw. the one that keeps the throttle linkage from going back too far. check to see that it isn't adjusted out too far.

RHG · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2005, 05:13:43 PM »

Thanks uncle you have been a lot of help

I will go out and check it right now. Here have a few turtle points.

RHG · « **Reply #23 on:** May 23, 2005, 09:19:34 PM »

S.O.B.

I went to check the TPS today and wanted to adjust it. Pain in the ass...you got to take the thermostat housing off to get a screwdriver on it. Well this truck and I havnt gotten off to a good start. Went to take the thermostat housing off and I snapped a bolt in the intake manifold.

I went and got my old man who does this

all day at work. Unfortantly he didnt have much at home for easy outs and carbide drill bits. Broke to cheapy easyouts then chiped a carbide.

We gave up for tonight. Gunna have to hitch a ride to work in the morning. Afterwork I get to pull the intake manifold out.

We're going to then take it to his work and let the mill take a whack at it. I hope that will fix it and not make things worse. I even put Kroil on those bolts before wrenching on them! Not many people have heard of Kroil but I swear its the best for siezed nuts and bolts. And his work keeps it stocked

Its just my luck I guess, something as simple as that tps leads to tearing half the top end off. Grrrr! Wish me luck.

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2005, 09:39:39 PM »

The only way to learn aout these trucks is to work on them, and unfortunetly sometimes parts break. Now you have an excuse to learn how to put a thermostat in, change intake gaskets, and adjust the tps. Later in life knowing how to get the intake off and how to route the wiring harness through it will save you some serious time if you ever have to take the head off.

DO put a thermostat in while you have it out. That way you know that it is good, and won't have to worry about it for a while. If you do get to taking the lower intake completely out of the truck, then while its out take a gander down the side of the block and inspect the fuel filter. Just follow the fuel lines from the rail on down, it connects with banjo bolts. If it looks old or maybe original, now while the intake is off is an excellent time to change it.

A tip for the intake, the harness winds through the upper intake, in between the runners. Some guys just unbolt the upper intake and set it aside on the fender, leaving the harness in it. (the harness goes through the manifold and down the engine to the trans and O2 sensors). With the upper out of the way, then you can take the lower off. Also, keep an eye out for the intake manifold bolt that goes through the thermostat housing. Its twice as long as a normal bolt/stud, and I walways forget about it.

Good luck

RHG · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2005, 10:04:02 PM »

Thanks uncle, how ironic...my real uncle is the one I normally go running to when I need answers. Your my new adopted uncle!

Yeah I know its the only way to learn a new thing.

Thats why I knew the ins and outs of my camaro...something new to fix every weekend. Ive done the thermostat bolt before. Aint fun. Aluminum and steel dont go to gether very well do they. So you suggest seperating the upper from the lower and leaving the upper laying on the inner fender with the harness as attached as possible? Sound good to me. I'll have to make sure I use plenty of tape to mark where all the wires and vacuum lines went. Oh and im gunna kroil the

out of all bolts. No more broken bolts! Now about that fuel filter

Where the hell is it? Underneath the intake on the frame rail? Sounds like a chore to get to, I'll take a look see. Thank you

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #26 on:** May 24, 2005, 06:55:03 AM »

Underneath the intake on the block

RHG · « **Reply #27 on:** May 24, 2005, 01:24:08 PM »

Well I got off from work early today and started on pulling the manifold. What japanese genious decided to put the fuel filter there! Cant they be normal and put it on a frame rail under the bed? Well I got the upper piece off and most of the lower unbolted. I am going to replace the fuel filter while I am in there and I also found some ugly "o" rings on the injectors. I will take a picture in a little bit of the progress I have made. This is a real pain in the ass, I cant believe it all started because of the TPS. I havnt even gotten a chance to check it yet. I guess I should do that before I go to the parts store so if its bad I can get one of those also. To be continued...stay tuned for a picture of the destruction.

Uncle Jesse · « **Reply #28 on:** May 24, 2005, 07:24:44 PM »

there are o rings and seats on the injectors, check both. Also inspect the copper washers on the banjo fittings to the fuel filter. Once again, good luck.

RHG · « **Reply #29 on:** May 25, 2005, 03:32:49 PM »

Alrighty, no pics because my digi is being retarded. I got the manifold off yesterday. The harness was a pain to get out of the way. I cut the manifold in between the intake runners to get the harness out of the way with out having to disconnect a bunch more stuff. Used a mill to drill out the old bolt and then helicoiled the hole. Decided to helicoil the other side too because the threads looked a lil nasty. Only had standard so that was another reason to do both. That way i dont have one metric and one standard bolt holding it in.

Now I just have to get out there and start putting stuff back together. I havnt even gotten around to checking the TPS! Oh yeah, the bolt that goes through the manifold at the thermostat part was a tore up allen head bolt that was a pain to get out. Visegrips

I need my truck back, hopefully the reassembly goes better than the destruction...uhm I mean disassembly.

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